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As much as I loved and respected Vans performance. I still think Pantoja is the worst matchup possible for him. He will do what Taira did to him before he got hurt for 5 rounds and force the grappling. It’s a bit difficult to say if he can come back to where he once was from the injury especially at 36, but unlike Taira he will be covering up after getting tagged. Kape, Horiguchi and Loner Kavanagh would be difficult fights for him too, but the kid has beautiful boxing, underrated power, excellent conditioning and ever improving ground game. At 24 he’s only going to get better.

As for Taira, tremendous heart, samurai spirit obviously, still only young too, but there’s a gap on the feet, his hand placement after getting lit up is infuriating with his hands down, there’re a reason why Vans hand placement is perfect, but Taira could’ve avoided getting hit repeatedly when he was dancing on ice. Put your damn hands up to your chin ffs, stop fucking about. Anyways, he still has a big future and an excellent grappling game. He just needs to get better in the stand up cuz his cardio was good or else if it let him down he would’ve been finished earlier.
 
MMAFTM13 said:
As much as I loved and respected Vans performance. I still think Pantoja is the worst matchup possible for him. He will do what Taira did to him before he got hurt for 5 rounds and force the grappling. It’s a bit difficult to say if he can come back to where he once was from the injury especially at 36, but unlike Taira he will be covering up after getting tagged. Kape, Horiguchi and Loner Kavanagh would be difficult fights for him too, but the kid has beautiful boxing, underrated power, excellent conditioning and ever improving ground game. At 24 he’s only going to get better.

As for Taira, tremendous heart, samurai spirit obviously, still only young too, but there’s a gap on the feet, his hand placement after getting lit up is infuriating with his hands down, there’re a reason why Vans hand placement is perfect, but Taira could’ve avoided getting hit repeatedly when he was dancing on ice. Put your damn hands up to your chin ffs, stop fucking about. Anyways, he still has a big future and an excellent grappling game. He just needs to get better in the stand up cuz his cardio was good or else if it let him down he would’ve been finished earlier.
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I'm guessing Pantoja beats him even with that injury and age. He was banged up last year as well during his successful title defenses (not sidelined obviously but still) and this rest along with extra tape on Van might help more than the recovering from injury and getting old factors
 
a-mart said:
I'm guessing Pantoja beats him even with that injury and age. He was banged up last year as well during his successful title defenses (not sidelined obviously but still) and this rest along with extra tape on Van might help more than the recovering from injury and getting old factors
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I laughed at Pantojas reaction in a split screen, when Van tried his best to talk shit to him and said you better get your shit right, and we can run back if you want? Pantoja scoffed and laughed as if he was saying how dare you ask me that.
 
Nubbynubb76 said:
When are you gonna join us for a live thread? Is China good for you?
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I’m up around 6AM here every day without fail and that’s with no afternoon naps, that’s 12AM western time. I try sleeping in or sleeping on the afternoon and no matter what time I get to sleep, it’s the same time I wake up every day. I can’t stay up to watch the fights and be up for 26 hours like I would be. I used to stay up like HKOG every single card and talk with the live, but not in recent years cuz it got too hard every Sunday and it had an effect for work on Mondays.

The only way I could is if I get a nightshift job over here, where my body will be used to nights. Apart from that I can’t do it anymore.
 
MMAFTM13 said:
I’m up around 6AM here every day without fail and that’s with no afternoon naps, that’s 12AM western time. I try sleeping in or sleeping on the afternoon and no matter what time I get to sleep, it’s the same time I wake up every day. I can’t stay up to watch the fights and be up for 26 hours like I would be. I used to stay up like HKOG every single card and talk with the live, but not in recent years cuz it got too hard every Sunday and it had an effect for work on Mondays.

The only way I could is if I get a nightshift job over here, where my body will be used to nights. Apart from that I can’t do it anymore.
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Change your career then, casual
 
MMAFTM13 said:
As much as I loved and respected Vans performance. I still think Pantoja is the worst matchup possible for him. He will do what Taira did to him before he got hurt for 5 rounds and force the grappling. It’s a bit difficult to say if he can come back to where he once was from the injury especially at 36, but unlike Taira he will be covering up after getting tagged. Kape, Horiguchi and Loner Kavanagh would be difficult fights for him too, but the kid has beautiful boxing, underrated power, excellent conditioning and ever improving ground game. At 24 he’s only going to get better.

As for Taira, tremendous heart, samurai spirit obviously, still only young too, but there’s a gap on the feet, his hand placement after getting lit up is infuriating with his hands down, there’re a reason why Vans hand placement is perfect, but Taira could’ve avoided getting hit repeatedly when he was dancing on ice. Put your damn hands up to your chin ffs, stop fucking about. Anyways, he still has a big future and an excellent grappling game. He just needs to get better in the stand up cuz his cardio was good or else if it let him down he would’ve been finished earlier.
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I appreciate your informed discussion
but I believe Van beats Pantoja. Pantoja only getting older and there is a LOT of film on him. Van is just getting better. (having said that, I could see Pantoja catching his neck in a scramble ) Van hits HARD, cuz everyone is affected by it.
Also i freely admit I'm a Van fan. and might be a tad biased.
 
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remember 3 fights or so ago when Erceg almost beat Pantoja. (and would have if he had kept boxing). Van is a wayyyyyyyyyyyyy better striker than Erceg. Pantoja has a chin but he does get rocked and slowed when he occasionally gets hit. Taira is a monster grappler, we all agree and yet every time he tried to do something and not just lay and pray, Van would slither out and made him work. Taira has a better chin and better cardio than 36 year old Pantoja. (although I do believe Pantoja is more skilled, esp in BJJ)
 
LoneCowboy said:
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remember 3 fights or so ago when Erceg almost beat Pantoja. (and would have if he had kept boxing). Van is a wayyyyyyyyyyyyy better striker than Erceg. Pantoja has a chin but he does get rocked and slowed when he occasionally gets hit. Taira is a monster grappler, we all agree and yet every time he tried to do something and not just lay and pray, Van would slither out and made him work. Taira has a better chin and better cardio than 36 year old Pantoja. (although I do believe Pantoja is more skilled, esp in BJJ)
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MMA math never works. Kai France almost killed Erceg with one punch, but Kai got choked out by Pantoja within 3 rounds. Every fights different and styles make fights.

Erceg was able to do a good job with Pantoja simply cuz he has good tdd and is a Bjj blackbelt. He also did well with him on the feet. If Pantoja cannot implement his grappling on someone he’s going to struggle cuz he only has serviceable striking really.

Vans a blue belt, maybe purple now and he’s not going to put up the same resistance on the mat. Pantoja takes everyone down, long term blackbelt, covers up well and is very durable. He’s not going to play around for long with Van in the stand up. He’s relentless in getting those takedowns and control before he takes something.

Taira was hurt badly and it took him a while to get his head back in the game before he even shot in for a takedown. He has poor defence with his hands whereas Pantoja doesent. It’s laughable to suggest that Taira has a better chin than Pantoja. He was visibly hurt against Edgar Chavez and Royval as well as Van too. Honestly, I’ve never seen Pantoja hurt to the head once like you think you have, 36 fights and never been dropped, let alone ktfo and I doubt Van can do it but stranger things have happened. Not even sure Taira has better cardio than him either. It always looks as though he’s tired but he always seems to keep up the pace for 5 rounds.

Let’s see if Pantojas lost a step due to his age, injury and that could easily be a possibility.
 
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