$60K speeding ticket

Nastycrow

Nastycrow

Mr. BlobTitz
Staff member
Originally posted by: cmvideo75
Date: March 06, 2015 at 11:14 AM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/60k-speeding-ticket.65672/
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Where are all the Finns at? @stoneface
Apparently in Finland, speeding tickets are charges as a percentage of how much a person makes rather than a flat fine. So this guy who made $7m last year got pulled over for going 64 in a 50, and got a $60,000 speeding ticket! LOL. I would think you'd probably like to keep your rich people in your country... geez what an incentive to GTFO.
https://autos.yahoo.com/blogs/motor...for-going-14mph-over-the-limit-225247649.html
 
Originally posted by: Flound
Date: March 06, 2015 at 11:54 AM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/60k-speeding-ticket.65672/
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cmvideo75 said:
Where are all the Finns at? @stoneface
Apparently in Finland, speeding tickets are charges as a percentage of how much a person makes rather than a flat fine. So this guy who made $7m last year got pulled over for going 64 in a 50, and got a $60,000 speeding ticket! LOL. I would think you'd probably like to keep your rich people in your country... geez what an incentive to GTFO.
https://autos.yahoo.com/blogs/motor...for-going-14mph-over-the-limit-225247649.html
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It makes sense, really.
If the purpose of a fine is to be punishment/deterrent, one can easily make the case that the flat rate affects people differently.
But $60K for 23km/h over the limit. Ouch!
Me, I'd view it as an incentive not to speed. That he's threatening to leave because he broke the law and doesn't like the punishment - grow up, rich boy. This is all on you.
 
Originally posted by: Spidy
Date: March 06, 2015 at 11:59 AM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/60k-speeding-ticket.65672/
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Damn. Hiring a driver woulda been cheaper
 
Originally posted by: Magson13
Date: March 06, 2015 at 12:07 PM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/60k-speeding-ticket.65672/
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Flound said:
It makes sense, really.
If the purpose of a fine is to be punishment/deterrent, one can easily make the case that the flat rate affects people differently.
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Absolutely. And it also helps keep the economy flowing, because people with millions of dollars don't just hold onto it all, it actually goes back into the economy. I like it.
 
Originally posted by: Flound
Date: March 06, 2015 at 12:07 PM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/60k-speeding-ticket.65672/
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Apparently dude is or was ranting about it on Facebook and his fellow Finns aren't buying it. He knew the law, he knew how much money he made and he chose to speed.
Seems to me, he should be pissed at the fucktard who broke the law...
 
Originally posted by: cmvideo75
Date: March 06, 2015 at 12:07 PM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/60k-speeding-ticket.65672/
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Flound said:
It makes sense, really.
If the purpose of a fine is to be punishment/deterrent, one can easily make the case that the flat rate affects people differently.
But $60K for 23km/h over the limit. Ouch!
Me, I'd view it as an incentive not to speed. That he's threatening to leave because he broke the law and doesn't like the punishment - grow up, rich boy. This is all on you.
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Yeah, I get the whole deterrent aspect of it but this is a bit over the top. I don't think the same exact crime for Joe Blow should cost $10 because he's a broke *** but this guy has to pay $60k. That's a bit absurd.... the crime is the crime. If they really wanted a deterrent, how about a license suspension if they are really that serious about speeding (maybe on the 2nd offense)? If you can't follow the rules, then get off of the road. This seems like a money grab.
Not that I really care about a guy that makes $7M, but the principle is bit whacked to me. I get the logic but in practice this is crazy.
 
Originally posted by: cmvideo75
Date: March 06, 2015 at 12:10 PM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/60k-speeding-ticket.65672/
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Magson13 said:
Absolutely. And it also helps keep the economy flowing, because people with millions of dollars don't just hold onto it all, it actually goes back into the economy. I like it.
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SOCIALIST!!!
 
Originally posted by: Flound
Date: March 06, 2015 at 12:16 PM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/60k-speeding-ticket.65672/
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cmvideo75 said:
Yeah, I get the whole deterrent aspect of it but this is a bit over the top. I don't think the same exact crime for Joe Blow should cost $10 because he's a broke *** but this guy has to pay $60k. That's a bit absurd.... the crime is the crime.
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Why not? I mean choosing a set fee or a set percentage are both equally viable provided they apply equally to everyone. Losing 2% of your income is just as fair.
If they really wanted a deterrent, how about a license suspension if they are really that serious about speeding (maybe on the 2nd offense)? If you can't follow the rules, then get off of the road. This seems like a money grab.
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Leaving aside that all monetary fines are money grabs, this seems to be a very effective deterrent as is. Seems to me they really wanted a deterrent and they got a really good one.
Not that I really care about a guy that makes $7M, but the principle is bit whacked to me. I get the logic but in practice this is crazy.
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I find nothing wrong with either the principle, the logic or the practice. If you want to have an equal deterrent, the effect should be equal in application. I'm not saying one is inherently better, just different.
 
Originally posted by: brian04280
Date: March 06, 2015 at 12:17 PM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/60k-speeding-ticket.65672/
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Flound said:
It makes sense, really.
If the purpose of a fine is to be punishment/deterrent, one can easily make the case that the flat rate affects people differently.
But $60K for 23km/h over the limit. Ouch!
Me, I'd view it as an incentive not to speed.
That he's threatening to leave because he broke the law and doesn't like the punishment - grow up, rich boy. This is all on you.
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I disagree. He should pay the fine, but were I rich, I'd bolt these "progressive" countries as well.
 
Originally posted by: Flound
Date: March 06, 2015 at 12:23 PM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/60k-speeding-ticket.65672/
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brian04280 said:
I disagree. He should pay the fine, but were I rich, I'd bolt these "progressive" countries as well.
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I don't think you do, you're just assuming things I'm not saying.
He knows the law, he knew the punishment and presumably he knows how much he made. That he chose to speed, got caught and is kvetching now, is still all on him.
I don't care, nor was I addressing whether he should go, stay or s--- himself, I'm just talking about his post facto whining for the self serving, poor me crap it is.
Grow up, own it and get on with your life, but don't b---- about it like you're a victim. You want to move? Leave. You want to change the law? Run for office. But stfu about how terribly you're being treated...
 
Originally posted by: brian04280
Date: March 06, 2015 at 12:26 PM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/60k-speeding-ticket.65672/
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I said he should pay the fine; but since it's clear Finland wants to punish the successful with these progressive systems, I'd not stay there if I was successful.
And I think it's fair for the rich to warn the socialists of what their response is going to be. Let's see socialism work when they can't keep the needle movers in the country.
 
Originally posted by: Flound
Date: March 06, 2015 at 12:34 PM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/60k-speeding-ticket.65672/
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brian04280 said:
I said he should pay the fine; but since it's clear Finland wants to punish the successful with these progressive systems, I'd not stay there if I was successful.
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Well, that is one way to frame it, but I think setting up a deterrent was their motivation. I find the scenario where the not rich scheme to remove money from the wealthy is more a fantasy than an objective reality. Seems to me Finland wants to punish those that speed and have that fine affect everyone equally.
And I think it's fair for the rich to warn the socialists of what their response is going to be. Let's see socialism work when they can't keep the needle movers in the country.
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And yet this is a country that has done it for a great period of time and by most societal metrics, does just as good and in some areas, better than countries with less socialistic programs.
Sorry, but while I myself lean towards capitalism, I'm not do blnd as to think everything socialist is bad. Nor do I view highly industrialized countries with comparable GDP and frankly, slightly better standards of living as teetering near the brink of economic downturn of ruin because their speeding fines aren't flat rate.
I just find his expectation of sympathy hilariously self serving is all. Leave, stay, I couldn't care less...
Edit; again, I'm not speaking to a subjective view on the merits of flat rates or percentage as deterrents in motor vehicle operation, nor am I broaching the merits and detractions of two political ideologies. I'm speaking about one whiny fat f--- who is bitching about it after the fact...
 
Originally posted by: Spud
Date: March 06, 2015 at 12:48 PM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/60k-speeding-ticket.65672/
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brian04280 said:
I said he should pay the fine; but since it's clear Finland wants to punish the successful with these progressive systems, I'd not stay there if I was successful.
And I think it's fair for the rich to warn the socialists of what their response is going to be. Let's see socialism work when they can't keep the needle movers in the country.
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Socialism actually seems to be working pretty well for Finland & I doubt they're too worried about one person possibly leaving. If there was going to be a mass exodus of rich people from Finland it probably would have occurred by now.
 
Originally posted by: cmvideo75
Date: March 06, 2015 at 12:53 PM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/60k-speeding-ticket.65672/
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Flound said:
Edit; again, I'm not speaking to a subjective view on the merits of flat rates or percentage as deterrents in motor vehicle operation, nor am I broaching the merits and detractions of two political ideologies. I'm speaking about one whiny fat f--- who is bitching about it after the fact...
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LOL... it's good to hear rich people whine!
I guess that is more my issue though... the flat rate penalty vs the percentage. The logic behind the percentage is solid but if there isn't a limit to it, it gets a bit absurd. Having the same exact crime cost one guy $200 and the other guy $60k is a bit extreme even if percentage wise they work out to the same penalty. Functionally, they are the same penalty but in reality, that $60k could be used to employ someone for an entire year (now there is the capitalist side! how republican of me! Uuuuhh... I just got chills). That $200 isn't doing anything for anyone except pay the fine.
This is monetary/civil penalty so I see the logic but if you were to apply a similar logic to prison sentences and crimes (which I am assuming they don't!), that would be crazy.
With that said, that is a pretty stiff speeding ticket percentage wise. If this guy made $7m and his ticket was $60k, that's .008 of his salary. For a guy making say $100,000/year, that's an $800 ticket. Still a stiff fine for going 64 in a 50! Geez... Finland doesn't like their speeders!
 
Originally posted by: Flound
Date: March 06, 2015 at 01:06 PM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/60k-speeding-ticket.65672/
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cmvideo75 said:
LOL... it's good to hear rich people whine!
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It depends. If I ever get rich, I'm full sure I won't want me to whine.
I guess that is more my issue though... the flat rate penalty vs the percentage. The logic behind the percentage is solid but if there isn't a limit to it, it gets a bit absurd.
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The number can be large, giving the appearance of absurdity, but since it's based in actual income, the effect to the individual is similar.
Having the same exact crime cost one guy $200 and the other guy $60k is a bit extreme even if percentage wise they work out to the same penalty.
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Of course, it's extreme. One of the variables is an extreme to begin with. It's not like you have scads of folks pulling $7m a year...
Functionally, they are the same penalty but in reality, that $60k could be used to employ someone for an entire year (now there is the capitalist side! how republican of me! Uuuuhh... I just got chills). That $200 isn't doing anything for anyone except pay the fine.
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That presumes the guy would. He might also just buy another horse of two, as he owns horse stables. But in the government coffers, it'll get spent. Govts do that - hell, they'll spend money they don't have.
This is monetary/civil penalty so I see the logic but if you were to apply a similar logic to prison sentences and crimes (which I am assuming they don't!), that would be crazy.
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They don't, nor is the idea that this logic be universal in every aspect that reasonable. But as prison sentences rely on deprivation of freedom and time, two things no one in jail has over anyone else, a sliding scale isn't necessary or advisable.
With that said, that is a pretty stiff speeding ticket percentage wise. If this guy made $7m and his ticket was $60k, that's .008 of his salary. For a guy making say $100,000/year, that's an $800 ticket. Still a stiff fine for going 64 in a 50! Geez... Finland doesn't like their speeders!
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Yeah, note to self. Let someone else drive in Finland.
 
Originally posted by: osubuckeye4
Date: March 06, 2015 at 01:11 PM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/60k-speeding-ticket.65672/
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I love this idea, and have been championing it for years. People can argue all they want about the precentage being unfair, but the idea itself is a sound one.
The one logistical hurdle that I forsee... is determining the basis for someones income. Do you factor things like lump sum pension payouts into the equation? What about bartenders who make a bunch of tips and have varying incomes on a year to year basis?
Is it off of net worth, or yearly income?
If you want to go off W-2's... what about CEO's who have a small salary, but get huge incentive bonuses?
What about people who were laid off or who choose not to work (for example, high school students who are living with their parents)? They get a $0 fine? Do you bill the parents?
It could end up being rather complicated as the cases start to pour in and people start to come up with their off-one arguements. I love the spirit of the idea though.
 
Originally posted by: Flound
Date: March 06, 2015 at 01:23 PM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/60k-speeding-ticket.65672/
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osubuckeye4 said:
I love this idea, and have been championing it for years. People can argue all they want about the precentage being unfair, but the idea itself is a sound one.
The one logistical hurdle that I forsee... is determining the basis for someones income. Do you factor things like lump sum pension payouts into the equation? What about bartenders who make a bunch of tips and have varying incomes on a year to year basis?
Is it off of net worth, or yearly income?
If you want to go off W-2's... what about CEO's who have a small salary, but get huge incentive bonuses?
What about people who were laid off or who choose not to work (for example, high school students who are living with their parents)? They get a $0 fine? Do you bill the parents?
It could end up being rather complicated as the cases start to pour in and people start to come up with their off-one arguements. I love the spirit of the idea though.
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In Finland they use your previous tax return. It's not current of that moment income level. So if you got laid off from a $250K gig a week before the ticket and are currently penniless, you're fooked.
 
Originally posted by: brian04280
Date: March 06, 2015 at 01:50 PM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/60k-speeding-ticket.65672/
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Flound said:
Well, that is one way to frame it, but I think setting up a deterrent was their motivation. I find the scenario where the not rich scheme to remove money from the wealthy is more a fantasy than an objective reality. Seems to me Finland wants to punish those that speed and have that fine affect everyone equally.
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Except it doesn't. There's a myth that proportionality is equality. It's not. On the low end, the ability to make up the cost of the ticket is not the same as it is at $60k.
And yet this is a country that has done it for a great period of time and by most societal metrics, does just as good and in some areas, better than countries with less socialistic programs.
Sorry, but while I myself lean towards capitalism, I'm not do blnd as to think everything socialist is bad. Nor do I view highly industrialized countries with comparable GDP and frankly, slightly better standards of living as teetering near the brink of economic downturn of ruin because their speeding fines aren't flat rate.
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I don't think socialism is bad. I thing socialism, like capitalism, is risky. You can only push the rich so far before they push back. Why don't british rock stars live in Britain, but instead go into Tax Exile? With capitalism you have to establish safety nets so the poor don't revolt. With socialism you have to set limits so the rich don't.
I just find his expectation of sympathy hilariously self serving is all. Leave, stay, I couldn't care less...
Edit; again, I'm not speaking to a subjective view on the merits of flat rates or percentage as deterrents in motor vehicle operation, nor am I broaching the merits and detractions of two political ideologies. I'm speaking about one whiny fat f--- who is bitching about it after the fact...
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But how can you make that statement without speaking to the merits o flat rates vs. percentages? He's only a whiny b---- if the system is in fact fair. If it is unfair, then he's calling out a legitimate issue.
 
Originally posted by: cmvideo75
Date: March 06, 2015 at 02:06 PM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/60k-speeding-ticket.65672/
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osubuckeye4 said:
If you want to go off W-2's... what about CEO's who have a small salary, but get huge incentive bonuses?
.
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Are you asking this question as if the law were being applied here? If so, then a very legit question. That is quite a tax loophole which I take full advantage of (one of the perks of incorporating vs self proprietorship)... I own a business so I take a certain salary on my W2. Supposedly that salary just has to be what a comparable person working for a company in my position would make... in my case video producer. But I actually draw about 2x my salary in 'bonuses' and that money is not subject to social security or disability tax. All completely legal. (Tell me that law wasn't written by business owners!) That's a pretty large chunk of change I save and as the numbers go up for CEOs and the like, that becomes and even larger number. Totally why you see CEOs making $500,000/year but getting $10m bonuses. If the disparity gets too large, then my accountant will tell me... errr, you may want to bump up your salary a bit lol. But it is still incredibly favorable for me.
However since Finland has a policy like this regarding their speeding tickets, they may also have very different ways of calculating net income. It doesn't seem like they would make such a differentiation between salary and bonus structure if their policies are more socialist in nature like this, but I really don't know.
 
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