Born in the USA - Things that don't mean what people think

[Nastycrow]

Originally posted by: redstar
Date: April 12, 2016 at 01:39 PM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/born-in-the-usa-things-that-dont-mean-what-people-think.68836/

filipino said:
Personally, I think if we're going to accede to the (shrillest) voices of the right demonizing the term "liberal," it's about time we stopped calling those voices "conservative" and label them as the reactionaries they truly are.
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The Lie of P
atriotism
BALTIMORE—When Rory Fanning, a burly veteran who served in the 2nd Army Ranger Battalion and was deployed in Afghanistan in 2002 and 2004, appeared at the
Donald Trump rally
in Chicago last month he was wearing the top half of his combat fatigues. As he moved through the crowd, dozens of Trump supporters shouted greetings such as “Welcome home, brother” and “Thank you for your service.” Then came the protest that shut down the rally. Fanning, one of the demonstrators, pulled out a flag that read “Vets Against Racism, War and Empire.”
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“Immediately someone threw a drink on me,” he said when I interviewed him on my teleSUR show, “Days of Revolt.” “I got hit from behind in the head three or four times. It was quite the switch, quite the pivot on me. Questioning the narrative, questioning Donald Trump’s narrative, and I was suddenly out of their good graces.”
Nationalists do not venerate veterans. They venerate veterans who read from the approved patriotic script.
America is the greatest and most powerful country on earth. Those we fight are depraved barbarians. Our enemies deserve death. God is on our side. Victory is assured. Our soldiers and Marines are heroes.
Deviate from this cant, no matter how many military tours you may have served, and you become despicable. The vaunted patriotism of the right wing is about self-worship. It is a raw lust for violence. It is blind subservience to the state. And it works to censor the reality of war.
http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/the_lie_of_patriotism_20160403

 

[Nastycrow]

Originally posted by: Gnarcore
Date: April 12, 2016 at 03:11 PM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/born-in-the-usa-things-that-dont-mean-what-people-think.68836/

cmvideo75 said:
An old metal one... Ozzy's Suicide Solution. He was actually sued for encouraging kids suicides back in the day. So f---ing stupid. The song is about Bonn Scott drinking himself to death.
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Same s--- happened up here.... The Dayglo Abortions put out a song called 'I Wanna Die by Suicide'....err wait nvm that was the whole point of the song.
Great lyrics:
It used to be a dirty word
Something I would never say
But now when I take a look at the world
There couldn't be a better way
I killed my mother when I was ten
I f---ed my sister with vaseline
Hung my daddy with a telephone wire
Now there's nobody left so I may as well fire
I wanna die by suicide x 4

 

[Nastycrow]

Originally posted by: LighthouseKeeper
Date: April 12, 2016 at 09:13 PM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/born-in-the-usa-things-that-dont-mean-what-people-think.68836/

reported

 

[Nastycrow]

Originally posted by: Thir13en
Date: April 12, 2016 at 09:36 PM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/born-in-the-usa-things-that-dont-mean-what-people-think.68836/

American Psycho - People think it's supposed to be a horror story when it's a black comedy about 80's yuppies.

 

[Nastycrow]

Originally posted by: cobra_punch
Date: April 12, 2016 at 09:40 PM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/born-in-the-usa-things-that-dont-mean-what-people-think.68836/

Raspberry Beret is about an Airborne Ranger, not an aspiring model turned prostitute.

 

[Nastycrow]

Originally posted by: redstar
Date: April 13, 2016 at 09:47 AM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/born-in-the-usa-things-that-dont-mean-what-people-think.68836/

Moby-d---: people think it's just a novel about fishing.
It's not. It's deep man, man.

 

[Nastycrow]

Originally posted by: richd514
Date: April 14, 2016 at 12:05 AM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/born-in-the-usa-things-that-dont-mean-what-people-think.68836/

Green Day - Good Riddance... wasn't written to be played as last song at weddings and sweet 16's

 

[Nastycrow]

Originally posted by: JW1978
Date: April 14, 2016 at 04:15 AM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/born-in-the-usa-things-that-dont-mean-what-people-think.68836/

Jesus Fetus said:
Also, freedom of speech. People think that gives them the right to say whatever they want, whenever they want, with no reprocussion whatsoever. Like when someone gets fired from their job for making a racist remark, they want to cry, "This is bulls---! You are violating my right to free speech!"
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Bingo! I have a lot of opinions, some of which are highly polarizing, and others people would consider stupid. I keep those opinions to myself because I understand that contingent to my freedom of speech, I feel a responsibility to answer for it, and some things I'm unwilling (or unable) to justify, so I keep those opinions to myself (in real life just as online). If I say something that I'm called out upon ... the way I see it is that's the result of me making a statement in the first place.
When I hear other people whine about their "freedom of speech" being shut down by naysayers, I just have to laugh. I have no obligation to "respect" your "right" to "free speech" so long as I do nothing to actively eliminate you of that right. If you choose to whine rather than justify your "right," then I feel it's my right to dismiss whatever you have to say. Sorry I didn't pat you on the head and give you your participation medal.

 

[Nastycrow]

Originally posted by: Brick
Date: April 14, 2016 at 08:17 AM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/born-in-the-usa-things-that-dont-mean-what-people-think.68836/

Thir13en said:
American Psycho - People think it's supposed to be a horror story when it's a black comedy about 80's yuppies.
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Plus I'm of the opinion it was all in his head.

 

[Nastycrow]

Originally posted by: Thir13en
Date: April 14, 2016 at 08:44 AM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/born-in-the-usa-things-that-dont-mean-what-people-think.68836/

Brick said:
Plus I'm of the opinion it was all in his head.
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Yeah they alluded to that a lot more in the film but the author bret easton ellis said in the book it wasn't meant to be that way and that the killings were real, but he liked that people put their own meaning to it. Either way, not a horror story like majority believe it's supposed to be.

 

[Nastycrow]

Originally posted by: Thir13en
Date: April 15, 2016 at 11:41 AM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/born-in-the-usa-things-that-dont-mean-what-people-think.68836/

"Every move you make, every breath you take, I'll be watching you"
Not about a loved one looking down from heaven, but actually a creepy window washing stalker watching a woman in an office building.

 

[Nastycrow]

Originally posted by: Jorge P
Date: April 15, 2016 at 12:10 PM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/born-in-the-usa-things-that-dont-mean-what-people-think.68836/

Thir13en said:
Yeah they alluded to that a lot more in the film but the author bret easton ellis said in the book it wasn't meant to be that way and that the killings were real, but he liked that people put their own meaning to it. Either way, not a horror story like majority believe it's supposed to be.
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Can't it be both a dark comedy and a horror story? The two genres aren't mutually exclusive.

 

[Nastycrow]

Originally posted by: Jorge P
Date: April 15, 2016 at 12:13 PM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/born-in-the-usa-things-that-dont-mean-what-people-think.68836/

richd514 said:
Green Day - Good Riddance... wasn't written to be played as last song at weddings and sweet 16's
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Yep. Song about death (or tough endings). My daughter is singing it for a talent show soon.

 

[Nastycrow]

Originally posted by: Thir13en
Date: April 15, 2016 at 12:42 PM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/born-in-the-usa-things-that-dont-mean-what-people-think.68836/

Jorge P said:
Can't it be both a dark comedy and a horror story? The two genres aren't mutually exclusive.
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It can be whatever you want it to be. However the author wrote the novel as a satire on wall street yuppies. In the book the killing scenes are thrown in completely randomly and have no impact on the story at all. Bret Easton Ellis wrote the entire novel first and then went back and added in the murder and rape chapters afterwards.
If you want to see it as horror that's ok too.

 

[Nastycrow]

Originally posted by: Jorge P
Date: April 15, 2016 at 01:36 PM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/born-in-the-usa-things-that-dont-mean-what-people-think.68836/

Thir13en said:
It can be whatever you want it to be. However the author wrote the novel as a satire on wall street yuppies. In the book the killing scenes are thrown in completely randomly and have no impact on the story at all. Bret Easton Ellis wrote the entire novel first and then went back and added in the murder and rape chapters afterwards.
If you want to see it as horror that's ok too.
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I get you. The murder scenes in the book are pretty horrifically written. That's why I am pushing back a bit at just characterizing it as "dark comedy" without acknowledging the "horror" part. I know the killings are random - maybe fictional - and Ellis is working with allegory - but the end result is satirical horror.
Just debating BTW - I just think that the produced work - independent of the author's intent which is meaningless to the experience of the reader since the work needs to stand on its own - is layered and not any one thing.

 

[Nastycrow]

Originally posted by: redstar
Date: April 15, 2016 at 02:27 PM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/born-in-the-usa-things-that-dont-mean-what-people-think.68836/

Liberal.
Libertarian.
Socialist.
Conservative.
All of those labels mean here (in the US) something quite different in the rest of the world. There is variation to extremes all over the globe, but if we stick to the 1st world.
Our definitions for these labels are pretty much directly opposite.
Which of course is in keeping with our exceptionalism.

 

[Nastycrow]

Originally posted by: richd514
Date: April 15, 2016 at 03:34 PM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/born-in-the-usa-things-that-dont-mean-what-people-think.68836/

Jorge P said:
Yep. Song about death (or tough endings). My daughter is singing it for a talent show soon.
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I remember watching behind the music (or a similar show) and Billie Joe was talking about how he wrote that in response to early fans turning their backs on Green Day after they "sold out" when Dookie became such a success.