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osubuckeye4 said:
Unions do that shit all the time.

The old, "we negotiated a package that will see our lowest paid workers earning $80,000 a year!". Then you look into it and you realize they are making $45,000 a year... the other $35,000 is health care, investment in training programs, union dues and all other kinds of mandatory deductions that the employee won't see in their take home.
Click to expand...

My nephew is 20 and in a union as an apprentice. $30/hr (pretty decent at 20), but on top of that he gets 10% into his union pension ($3hr) another 5% automatically into a 401(k) ($1.5hr) and does not pay for insurance at all (say $5hr), so at 20 he has a package that is almost $40hr. With OT this year, he expe4cts take home of about $70k. At 20. One a journeyman, the hourly bumps to $42 and all the rest go up as well, obviously.

Beats going to school to learn how to be a barista.
 
Ulf Murphy said:
My nephew is 20 and in a union as an apprentice. $30/hr (pretty decent at 20), but on top of that he gets 10% into his union pension ($3hr) another 5% automatically into a 401(k) ($1.5hr) and does not pay for insurance at all (say $5hr), so at 20 he has a package that is almost $40hr. With OT this year, he expe4cts take home of about $70k. At 20. One a journeyman, the hourly bumps to $42 and all the rest go up as well, obviously.

Beats going to school to learn how to be a barista.
Click to expand...

Yes, some unions/trades are great. I have friends who are in management level roles for the IBEW and they are making bank.

One of my co-workers husbands is a pipefitter and while it was lean his first couple years, he is also making bank now.



Then you have stuff like this, which is just PR nonsense.

NOTE: This was from 2023, so we're 3 years in now.

www.cbsnews.com

UPS says drivers to make $170,000 in pay and benefits following union deal

The carrier's new labor contract will increase full-time drivers' compensation roughly 17% over five years, UPS' CEO said in an earnings call.
www.cbsnews.com www.cbsnews.com

UPS says drivers to make $170,000 in pay and benefits following union deal​


UPS drivers will earn an average of $170,000 in annual pay and benefits at the end of a five-year contract agreement, UPS CEO Carol Tomé said during an earnings call this week.

The executive's comments punctuated the end of a weekslong struggle between UPS and the Teamsters Union which negotiated with the carrier last month to avert a strike and secure a new contract for 340,000 union employees. More than 70% of UPS' 443,000 employees are represented by the Teamsters' Union, the company's website shows.

"We expected negotiations with the Teamsters to be late and loud, and they were," Tomé said during the call. As a result, UPS slashed its full-year revenue forecasts "primarily to reflect the volume impact from labor negotiations and the costs associated with the tentative agreement," she added.

The deal, which was reached on July 25, will increase full-time workers' compensation to $170,000 from roughly $145,000 over five years, according to UPS' calculations. It will also boost part-time workers' salaries to at least $25.75 per hour, and end mandatory overtime, Tomé told investors on Tuesday.

Online searches for jobs with "UPS" or "United Parcel Service" in the title jumped 50% in the week after the new pay deal was announced, Bloomberg News reported, citing data from Indeed.

Higher six-figure pay for UPS drivers​

By the end of the new contract, full-time UPS delivery drivers will make an average of $49 per hour, which works out to nearly $102,000 per year, assuming a 40-hour workweek, 52 weeks a year. Those employees are guaranteed an eight-hour workday, a UPS spokesperson told CBS MoneyWatch.

Drivers also receive $50,000 in benefits "that include health, welfare and pension contributions," the spokesperson said.

That places UPS drivers near the same pay grade as software developers, finance directors and physician assistants, who all earn average salaries in the $108,000 - $115,000 range, according to Indeed.



Contrast that with the reality:

This is from 2026

www.sofi.com

How Much Does a UPS Driver Make a Year? | SoFi

Learn how much the average delivery driver in the US earns and the ways UPS employees may earn more depending on seniority and benefits.
www.sofi.com

What Is the Average Salary for a UPS Driver?​

You’re probably curious about how much a UPS driver can make annually or on a salary vs. hourly rate. The average hourly pay for UPS drivers can range from $19.56 to $30.05, depending on the state. The table below illustrates how UPS delivery drivers’ average annual and hourly pay can vary by state.

​

[td width="222.875px"]
Illinois

[/td][td width="222.875px"]
$44,403

[/td][td width="222.896px"]
$21.35

[/td]


​


The Takeaway​

The average full-time delivery driver in the US makes around $42,000 a year, while UPS package delivery drivers average $40,000 to $62,000. UPS salaries vary by location and experience. In addition to pay, UPS drivers gain access to valuable employee benefits such as employer-sponsored health care, paid time off, and a pension plan. These benefits can help people balance their budget and enjoy a good quality of life, personally and financially.
 
osubuckeye4 said:
Yes, some unions/trades are great. I have friends who are in management level roles for the IBEW and they are making bank.

One of my co-workers husbands is a pipefitter and while it was lean his first couple years, he is also making bank now.



Then you have stuff like this, which is just PR nonsense.

NOTE: This was from 2023, so we're 3 years in now.

www.cbsnews.com

UPS says drivers to make $170,000 in pay and benefits following union deal

The carrier's new labor contract will increase full-time drivers' compensation roughly 17% over five years, UPS' CEO said in an earnings call.
www.cbsnews.com www.cbsnews.com

UPS says drivers to make $170,000 in pay and benefits following union deal​


UPS drivers will earn an average of $170,000 in annual pay and benefits at the end of a five-year contract agreement, UPS CEO Carol Tomé said during an earnings call this week.

The executive's comments punctuated the end of a weekslong struggle between UPS and the Teamsters Union which negotiated with the carrier last month to avert a strike and secure a new contract for 340,000 union employees. More than 70% of UPS' 443,000 employees are represented by the Teamsters' Union, the company's website shows.

"We expected negotiations with the Teamsters to be late and loud, and they were," Tomé said during the call. As a result, UPS slashed its full-year revenue forecasts "primarily to reflect the volume impact from labor negotiations and the costs associated with the tentative agreement," she added.

The deal, which was reached on July 25, will increase full-time workers' compensation to $170,000 from roughly $145,000 over five years, according to UPS' calculations. It will also boost part-time workers' salaries to at least $25.75 per hour, and end mandatory overtime, Tomé told investors on Tuesday.

Online searches for jobs with "UPS" or "United Parcel Service" in the title jumped 50% in the week after the new pay deal was announced, Bloomberg News reported, citing data from Indeed.

Higher six-figure pay for UPS drivers​

By the end of the new contract, full-time UPS delivery drivers will make an average of $49 per hour, which works out to nearly $102,000 per year, assuming a 40-hour workweek, 52 weeks a year. Those employees are guaranteed an eight-hour workday, a UPS spokesperson told CBS MoneyWatch.

Drivers also receive $50,000 in benefits "that include health, welfare and pension contributions," the spokesperson said.

That places UPS drivers near the same pay grade as software developers, finance directors and physician assistants, who all earn average salaries in the $108,000 - $115,000 range, according to Indeed.



Contrast that with the reality:

This is from 2026

www.sofi.com

How Much Does a UPS Driver Make a Year? | SoFi

Learn how much the average delivery driver in the US earns and the ways UPS employees may earn more depending on seniority and benefits.
www.sofi.com

What Is the Average Salary for a UPS Driver?​

You’re probably curious about how much a UPS driver can make annually or on a salary vs. hourly rate. The average hourly pay for UPS drivers can range from $19.56 to $30.05, depending on the state. The table below illustrates how UPS delivery drivers’ average annual and hourly pay can vary by state.

​

[td width="222.875px"]
Illinois

[/td][td width="222.875px"]
$44,403

[/td][td width="222.896px"]
$21.35

[/td]


​


The Takeaway​

The average full-time delivery driver in the US makes around $42,000 a year, while UPS package delivery drivers average $40,000 to $62,000. UPS salaries vary by location and experience. In addition to pay, UPS drivers gain access to valuable employee benefits such as employer-sponsored health care, paid time off, and a pension plan. These benefits can help people balance their budget and enjoy a good quality of life, personally and financially.
Click to expand...

I have a buddy that drives for UPS. I actually asked him about that article a few years ago when it was making the rounds. He's been there for over 25 years and he said he isn't that high, but is "not far" with everything factored in. He lives in a really nice house in a really good neighborhood and his wife has an average job, so it makes sense. But I also think that 25+ years has a LOT to do with it.
 
Ulf Murphy said:
I have a buddy that drives for UPS. I actually asked him about that article a few years ago when it was making the rounds. He's been there for over 25 years and he said he isn't that high, but is "not far" with everything factored in. He lives in a really nice house in a really good neighborhood and his wife has an average job, so it makes sense. But I also think that 25+ years has a LOT to do with it.
Click to expand...

That's the thing... 'with everything factored in'

When you talk to someone who is doing data entry, they will say, "I make $22 an hour, so... about $45,000 a year. With overtime it's closer to $50,000"

They don't say, "I pull in a package worth $100,000 a year" and then when you peal back the layers you realize that they are including the employers portion of medical, dental as well as maxing out potential overtime and counting PTO time as additional pay to bump the figure up. Not to mention the 'training costs' (which no employee ever will see as take home pay) being baked into the package figure.


That's all that I'm saying. It's not that unions are bad or private sector is good. It's only that unions are very good at riling everyone up with the PR nonsense.
 
osubuckeye4 said:
That's all that I'm saying. It's not that unions are bad or private sector is good. It's only that unions are very good at riling everyone up with the PR nonsense.
Click to expand...
I agree. But I have always believed that the greatest invention in the history of the world was the American Middle Class, and unions were the backbone of that. Even though they have really gone sour in too many cases, and I understand the verbiage as a misleading, I have to respect the ones that do it right.

When I compare how FedEx does it and how UPS does it, there is no comparison when it comes to driver treatment. FedEx outsources all its drivers to individual routes for sale or owners who buy 4-50 of them, then dictates all the terms, which is more cost effective for them, but the average driver is toast. UPS is far superior, even if the average is only $50k in actual salary.
 
osubuckeye4 said:
Yes, some unions/trades are great. I have friends who are in management level roles for the IBEW and they are making bank.

One of my co-workers husbands is a pipefitter and while it was lean his first couple years, he is also making bank now.



Then you have stuff like this, which is just PR nonsense.

NOTE: This was from 2023, so we're 3 years in now.

www.cbsnews.com

UPS says drivers to make $170,000 in pay and benefits following union deal

The carrier's new labor contract will increase full-time drivers' compensation roughly 17% over five years, UPS' CEO said in an earnings call.
www.cbsnews.com www.cbsnews.com

UPS says drivers to make $170,000 in pay and benefits following union deal​


UPS drivers will earn an average of $170,000 in annual pay and benefits at the end of a five-year contract agreement, UPS CEO Carol Tomé said during an earnings call this week.

The executive's comments punctuated the end of a weekslong struggle between UPS and the Teamsters Union which negotiated with the carrier last month to avert a strike and secure a new contract for 340,000 union employees. More than 70% of UPS' 443,000 employees are represented by the Teamsters' Union, the company's website shows.

"We expected negotiations with the Teamsters to be late and loud, and they were," Tomé said during the call. As a result, UPS slashed its full-year revenue forecasts "primarily to reflect the volume impact from labor negotiations and the costs associated with the tentative agreement," she added.

The deal, which was reached on July 25, will increase full-time workers' compensation to $170,000 from roughly $145,000 over five years, according to UPS' calculations. It will also boost part-time workers' salaries to at least $25.75 per hour, and end mandatory overtime, Tomé told investors on Tuesday.

Online searches for jobs with "UPS" or "United Parcel Service" in the title jumped 50% in the week after the new pay deal was announced, Bloomberg News reported, citing data from Indeed.

Higher six-figure pay for UPS drivers​

By the end of the new contract, full-time UPS delivery drivers will make an average of $49 per hour, which works out to nearly $102,000 per year, assuming a 40-hour workweek, 52 weeks a year. Those employees are guaranteed an eight-hour workday, a UPS spokesperson told CBS MoneyWatch.

Drivers also receive $50,000 in benefits "that include health, welfare and pension contributions," the spokesperson said.

That places UPS drivers near the same pay grade as software developers, finance directors and physician assistants, who all earn average salaries in the $108,000 - $115,000 range, according to Indeed.



Contrast that with the reality:

This is from 2026

www.sofi.com

How Much Does a UPS Driver Make a Year? | SoFi

Learn how much the average delivery driver in the US earns and the ways UPS employees may earn more depending on seniority and benefits.
www.sofi.com

What Is the Average Salary for a UPS Driver?​

You’re probably curious about how much a UPS driver can make annually or on a salary vs. hourly rate. The average hourly pay for UPS drivers can range from $19.56 to $30.05, depending on the state. The table below illustrates how UPS delivery drivers’ average annual and hourly pay can vary by state.

​

[td width="222.875px"]
Illinois

[/td][td width="222.875px"]
$44,403

[/td][td width="222.896px"]
$21.35

[/td]


​


The Takeaway​

The average full-time delivery driver in the US makes around $42,000 a year, while UPS package delivery drivers average $40,000 to $62,000. UPS salaries vary by location and experience. In addition to pay, UPS drivers gain access to valuable employee benefits such as employer-sponsored health care, paid time off, and a pension plan. These benefits can help people balance their budget and enjoy a good quality of life, personally and financially.
Click to expand...
You're comparing package drivers (delivery) to line haul. (Semi trucks between terminals usually at night). Not the same thing

Ups line haul pays bank. Team guys with 10 year seniority easily gross 140k plus benes. Package guys do ok, but not like that
 
LoneCowboy said:
You're comparing package drivers (delivery) to line haul. (Semi trucks between terminals usually at night). Not the same thing

Ups line haul pays bank. Team guys with 10 year seniority easily gross 140k plus benes. Package guys do ok, but not like that
Click to expand...

I'm going off what the Teamsters Union rep said...

www.cbsnews.com

UPS says drivers to make $170,000 in pay and benefits following union deal

The carrier's new labor contract will increase full-time drivers' compensation roughly 17% over five years, UPS' CEO said in an earnings call.
www.cbsnews.com www.cbsnews.com

UPS says drivers to make $170,000 in pay and benefits following union deal​


Higher six-figure pay for UPS drivers​

By the end of the new contract, full-time UPS delivery drivers will make an average of $49 per hour, which works out to nearly $102,000 per year, assuming a 40-hour workweek, 52 weeks a year. Those employees are guaranteed an eight-hour workday, a UPS spokesperson told CBS MoneyWatch.

Drivers also receive $50,000 in benefits "that include health, welfare and pension contributions," the spokesperson said.
 
Ulf Murphy said:
I agree. But I have always believed that the greatest invention in the history of the world was the American Middle Class, and unions were the backbone of that. Even though they have really gone sour in too many cases, and I understand the verbiage as a misleading, I have to respect the ones that do it right.

When I compare how FedEx does it and how UPS does it, there is no comparison when it comes to driver treatment. FedEx outsources all its drivers to individual routes for sale or owners who buy 4-50 of them, then dictates all the terms, which is more cost effective for them, but the average driver is toast. UPS is far superior, even if the average is only $50k in actual salary.
Click to expand...

No disagreement there.

The only point is that I've always found it extremely bizarre when a non-unionized company like Amazon or Starbucks (though they are starting to unionize) tries the same shit and gets dogpiled on... but, when the Teamsters do it so many people take them at their word and start lining up to dick ride.


For example, could you imagine the 'outrage' if Amazon tried to pull a, "The average Amazon packer makes $90,000 a year when you factor in pay rate and benefits/perks". Every vein in Bernie Sanders neck would be bulging out and he'd be spitting mad.

Teamsters say that UPS delivery drivers average $175,000 and Bernie Sanders looks like he's about to ejaculate in his pants over it, rather than pointing out the BS like 'training fees', welfare, mandatory union dues and the factoring in of 'perks'.
 
osubuckeye4 said:
I'm going off what the Teamsters Union rep said...

www.cbsnews.com

UPS says drivers to make $170,000 in pay and benefits following union deal

The carrier's new labor contract will increase full-time drivers' compensation roughly 17% over five years, UPS' CEO said in an earnings call.
www.cbsnews.com www.cbsnews.com

UPS says drivers to make $170,000 in pay and benefits following union deal​


Higher six-figure pay for UPS drivers​

By the end of the new contract, full-time UPS delivery drivers will make an average of $49 per hour, which works out to nearly $102,000 per year, assuming a 40-hour workweek, 52 weeks a year. Those employees are guaranteed an eight-hour workday, a UPS spokesperson told CBS MoneyWatch.

Drivers also receive $50,000 in benefits "that include health, welfare and pension contributions," the spokesperson said.
Click to expand...
I believe it. I manage a fleet of drivers who make similar money after being with the company for 5+ years. Most of the drivers make more money than I do as a manager. I hate unions.
 
a-mart said:
Elon Musk becomes the world's first trillionaire with SpaceX's IPO

www.cbsnews.com

Elon Musk becomes the world's first trillionaire with SpaceX's IPO

The SpaceX CEO's fortune on paper now rivals the annual economic output of many countries, according to World Bank data.
www.cbsnews.com www.cbsnews.com
Click to expand...
Gifq47TWQAAszoP.jpg
 
a-mart said:
Elon Musk becomes the world's first trillionaire with SpaceX's IPO

www.cbsnews.com

Elon Musk becomes the world's first trillionaire with SpaceX's IPO

The SpaceX CEO's fortune on paper now rivals the annual economic output of many countries, according to World Bank data.
www.cbsnews.com www.cbsnews.com
Click to expand...
The whole SpaceX IPO is a massive rug pull (well, a lot of overhyped IPOs are if you think about it). Already coming back down to planet earth. Anyone that jumped on the ship on day 2 is going to get a poke up the ass.

I myself dropped $4K on Amazon for a long play.
 
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