Originally posted by: MrEko74
Date: July 29, 2009 at 12:00 PM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/christianity-debate-convince-me-its-real.15889/
Sedulous said:
MrEko74 said:
Sedulous said:
You can't talk people into believing in Christianity, and we can't prove to you that it's real. You can ask questions and reasons for why we believe in what we believe can be given. And no one has all the answers either. I'm willing to discuss it and answer questions. But I'm not willing to argue about or try to logically talk you into thinking the way I do. I also don't have polaroids of God and Jesus.
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But evangelizing and spreading your belief is one of the keystones of your religion. It's your god given privilege and duty to convince people like me that your religion is in fact true.
And of course you don't have polaroids of God and Jesus, lol. I'm talking about logical evidence that has to make me believe that the Christian God does in fact exist.
Fine, I'll start with the questions.
For you Christians, your god is all-knowing, all-powerful, merciful, and overall just GOOD. Is this true?
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No, evangelizing and spreading my belief doesn't mean convincing you that my religion is true. Metaphorically speaking it's me planting a seed by telling you what I believe. Whether you believe and accept it as truth is really between you and God.
Yes God is all knowing, all powerful, merciful, and is good....true
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Show some evidence that God is all knowing, all powerful, merciful, and good.
I can show some evidence that God is evil.
He wiped out the entire world in a giant flood.
In a passage in 2 Kings, he sets two bears to maul over 40 kids because they were making fun of one of his prophets.
If he was all knowing, then why didn't he see Lucifer coming.
If he was all powerful, then why doesn't he just get rid of Lucifer.
If he was merciful, why not forgive all sinners, instead of throwing all of us in a lake of fire for all eternity.
phoenix-mma said:
The first problem is, religion is not a "debate". You can discuss it, but there is no reason to debate it. Secondly, if you're attitude is "convince me its real", then christianity clearly isnt for you.
Like i tell everyone, go find what works for you. Its not up so someone to "convince" you.....do the research, read, study, go to several different church services, etc. Each persons life is a journey of learning and discovery. Whatever "foundation" you have in place that keeps you grounded is whats important. If you're methodist, catholic, jewish, atheist, buddhist, whatever. Maybe you pray to the flying spaghetti monster......hey, whatever works.
I think instead of "debating", it should be about what each persons spiritual basis (if any) is based around.
I grew up in the Methodist church. My father is a minister (yup, i'm a preachers kid). My grandfather was a minister, my brother is minister, my uncle and my cousin are all Methodist minister. They all went to the same siminary (St Pauls school of theology in KC).
It wasnt until i was out of the house and in college that i ventured out and found what really was important to me. I lived in CA and had many jewish friends, many atheist friends, many buddhist friends, and i made sure i didnt have any scientology friends :lol: .Here in AZ we have alot of mormons, and one of my best friends is mormon. Its never been about trying to convince my friends whats the best, or "mine is better than yours". Its about "how has your faith gotten you to where you are today?". When faced with adversity, do you turn to the bottle and drugs to cope/numb yourself? Or do you rely on your faith that things will get better? Thats what religion is about, its not about "convincing" someone that you will go to heaven and sit in judgment, and live our your days with wings and harps.
I tell people, whatever keeps you grounded is your "faith". It could be your family or children. What keeps you on the straight path when temptation is bangin on your door? Thats faith. What makes you pick up a dollar and hand it back to the person who didnt notice they dropped it? Thats character, driven by ones faith. I think the ideology around most religions is that, "this is how it really went down...don't listen to the ____, ours is the correct religion". That i dont believe. My faith is based on the idea that i'm on this earth for a purpose, and if i'm able to impact lives then i've served a higher purpose...whomever that may be.
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That's where I disagree bro. Before I talk, again congrats on your new family, I hope everything is going well for you.
Religion has to be a debate. You can't avoid that. The reason is because one of these has to be right because embedded is a belief that whoever is wrong either goes to hell or ceases to exist (based on which religion, and both are considered bad). We have to debate it.
I agree that doing good things, like returning dropped money, is driven by character, but you don't have to have faith or fear of retribution to have good character. I have met lots of people who are atheists who are good people. I have met a lot of people who are religious that are pieces of s---. Faith is faith. Character is character. Sometimes there is a correlation, other times there are not.
