Condit KOs Hardy - Impressive but reckless?

[Nastycrow]

Originally posted by: MuayThaiNoob
Date: October 17, 2010 at 08:32 PM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/condit-kos-hardy-impressive-but-reckless.31381/

It struck me as I was watching Condit's fight with Hardy yesterday that, from the perspective of one of Condit's coaches, maybe his victory wasn't as impressive as it seemed. Directly after the fight and at the post-fight pressers, a lot was being made of his victory and hints at contender bouts. Whilst I don't disagree with the the fact that he's a serious threat at 170, I'm just not sure this fight was the best showing he could of had.
As I see it, he engaged Dan Hardy where he was most dangerous, and proceeded to wing hooks from the pocket. Inevitably somebody was going to sleep in dramatic fashion. Condit did look impressive in the standup but I hardly think he dominated Hardy or put on a clinic of striking. I wouldn't call it luck that Condit was the last man standing, but I do think that the left hook Hardy threw as he ate the knock out shot from Condit, could've very easily been the end of Carlos' night as well.
Having said that, huge respect to Condit for putting on an entertaining show and not being afraid to take chances.

 

[Nastycrow]

Originally posted by: BigBadBre
Date: October 17, 2010 at 08:42 PM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/condit-kos-hardy-impressive-but-reckless.31381/

Florian said before his last fight "I fully expect to go out there and out-wrestle Maynard"... :lol: but that's the point of MMA, bring all the skills in the cage and see who's better, bringing one and avoiding the other won't get you places.
Besides, getting in there is reckless in the first place, another approach could have cost him the fight, the one he used didn't.

 

[Nastycrow]

Originally posted by: vfrex
Date: October 17, 2010 at 08:54 PM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/condit-kos-hardy-impressive-but-reckless.31381/

Condit has always been "reckless". Even on the ground, he's very aggressive and seems to often lose advantageous positions to try to get submissions and finishes. Condit goes for finishes and exciting fights. His striking looked really good in that fight. Aside from his fight against Ellenberger, we've seen Condit outstrike all of his opponents in the UFC. Condit also tooled Kampmann standing, another respected WW striker. I think Condit has always had good striking, but he's definitely steadily improving.
I think that Condit's lack of power was an issue in the past, but he's clearly been working on strength and explosiveness, and he needed to be regarded as a major threat. His defense leaved something to be desired, but Hardy wasn't able to hit him all that much.

 

[Nastycrow]

Originally posted by: Jak
Date: October 17, 2010 at 09:23 PM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/condit-kos-hardy-impressive-but-reckless.31381/

I tend disagree with the OP.
Condit has always fought this way, and the majority of the time he wins. Even his loss to Kampmann was more about one guy having better position. Condit had way better striking. Just a piss poor game plan.
Jake Ellenberger has shown he's a force, and whether you agree or disagree with that fights decision, Condit was in there giving it hell with another top prospect.
Plus he was a defending champ, so he's got the mental side going as well.
I thought this was just another Condit fight, he did what other UFCers hadn't done and that was ko Hardy in the first.

 

[Nastycrow]

Originally posted by: clockwerk
Date: October 17, 2010 at 09:31 PM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/condit-kos-hardy-impressive-but-reckless.31381/

Jak said:
I tend disagree with the OP.
Condit has always fought this way, and the majority of the time he wins. Even his loss to Kampmann was more about one guy having better position. Condit had way better striking. Just a piss poor game plan.
Jake Ellenberger has shown he's a force, and whether you agree or disagree with that fights decision, Condit was in there giving it hell with another top prospect.
Plus he was a defending champ, so he's got the mental side going as well.
I thought this was just another Condit fight, he did what other UFCers hadn't done and that was ko Hardy in the first.
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You're right, he has always fought this way, but I'm not sure how you're disagreeing with the OP. He's basically saying "Condit is really good, but reckless", which is correct, and you support in your opening sentence. I think the OP is correct, he is very good, but likes to take dangerous chances. If you watch the replay, Dan Hardy missed putting him to sleep as well by a couple of inches. We almost had a double KO on our hands.

 

[Nastycrow]

Originally posted by: nockyourselfout
Date: October 17, 2010 at 09:36 PM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/condit-kos-hardy-impressive-but-reckless.31381/

It's no different than GSP going in there and beating people at there own game, thats all. Condit will try and outstrike any striker that thinks he's better or try and out grapple the grappler.

 

[Nastycrow]

Originally posted by: MuayThaiNoob
Date: October 17, 2010 at 09:36 PM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/condit-kos-hardy-impressive-but-reckless.31381/

Jak said:
I tend disagree with the OP.
Condit has always fought this way, and the majority of the time he wins. Even his loss to Kampmann was more about one guy having better position. Condit had way better striking. Just a piss poor game plan.
Jake Ellenberger has shown he's a force, and whether you agree or disagree with that fights decision, Condit was in there giving it hell with another top prospect.
Plus he was a defending champ, so he's got the mental side going as well.
I thought this was just another Condit fight, he did what other UFCers hadn't done and that was ko Hardy in the first.
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Fair enough.
I must admit, I am not all that familiar with Condit. I know he was a WEC champ, but outside that I have only seen him fight twice. I suspect that's why I saw a fighter who went in and took a reckless chance when others see it as a continuation of his aggressive style.
If it's a choice between Condit fighting like this, and getting a loss or two, or targeting his opponents weaknesses and grinding decisions - I do agree that he should be commended for taking the former choice. Very exciting fighter.

 

[Nastycrow]

Originally posted by: MuayThaiNoob
Date: October 17, 2010 at 09:38 PM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/condit-kos-hardy-impressive-but-reckless.31381/

clockwerk said:
We almost had a double KO on our hands.
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I said the same thing to my mate as we watched the knockout replay. Your dead right, it's definitely not an exaggeration to say that it was a matter of inches.

 

[Nastycrow]

Originally posted by: nockyourselfout
Date: October 17, 2010 at 09:41 PM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/condit-kos-hardy-impressive-but-reckless.31381/

MuayThaiNoob said:
clockwerk said:
We almost had a double KO on our hands.
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I said the same thing to my mate as we watched the knockout replay. Your dead right, it's definitely not an exaggeration to say that it was a matter of inches.
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True but you could see Condit was the more technical striker, he was more prepared to eat a hook, his chin was tucked, Hardy, not so much.

 

[Nastycrow]

Originally posted by: clockwerk
Date: October 17, 2010 at 09:43 PM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/condit-kos-hardy-impressive-but-reckless.31381/

MuayThaiNoob said:
Jak said:
I tend disagree with the OP.
Condit has always fought this way, and the majority of the time he wins. Even his loss to Kampmann was more about one guy having better position. Condit had way better striking. Just a piss poor game plan.
Jake Ellenberger has shown he's a force, and whether you agree or disagree with that fights decision, Condit was in there giving it hell with another top prospect.
Plus he was a defending champ, so he's got the mental side going as well.
I thought this was just another Condit fight, he did what other UFCers hadn't done and that was ko Hardy in the first.
Click to expand...
Fair enough.
I must admit, I am not all that familiar with Condit. I know he was a WEC champ, but outside that I have only seen him fight twice. I suspect that's why I saw a fighter who went in and took a reckless chance when others see it as a continuation of his aggressive style.
If it's a choice between Condit fighting like this, and getting a loss or two, or targeting his opponents weaknesses and grinding decisions - I do agree that he should be commended for taking the former choice. Very exciting fighter.
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Now I'm confused. what's the difference between "...a fighter who went in and took a reckless chance..." and "...a continuation of his aggressive style."
From where I sit, really aggressive fighters by definition are taking chances, and frequently somewhat reckless ones. Wanderlei comes to mind. He's paid for his aggression badly, though it also made him a big name and won him more fights than it lost him. The same can be said of Condit.
Like you pointed out, we were mere inches away from what could have been a double KO. Not exactly something that can be defended as safe or calculated.

 

[Nastycrow]

Originally posted by: MuayThaiNoob
Date: October 17, 2010 at 09:50 PM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/condit-kos-hardy-impressive-but-reckless.31381/

clockwerk said:
Now I'm confused. what's the difference between "...a fighter who went in and took a reckless chance..." and "...a continuation of his aggressive style."
From where I sit, really aggressive fighters by definition are taking chances, and frequently somewhat reckless ones. Wanderlei comes to mind. He's paid for his aggression badly, though it also made him a big name and won him more fights than it lost him. The same can be said of Condit.
Like you pointed out, we were mere inches away from what could have been a double KO. Not exactly something that can be defended as safe or calculated.
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My point is that there is no difference, but because I wasn't at that familiar with Condit going into the fight, I construed his recklessness as something negative, whereas it seems like others see it as a positive thing that is just indicative of him as a fighter.

 

[Nastycrow]

Originally posted by: CF3
Date: October 17, 2010 at 11:12 PM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/condit-kos-hardy-impressive-but-reckless.31381/

I'm all for "reckless".... better that than him fighting "not lose". He took it to Hardy and Hardy went down....end of story.

 

[Nastycrow]

Originally posted by: sincitydc
Date: October 17, 2010 at 11:22 PM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/condit-kos-hardy-impressive-but-reckless.31381/

CF3 said:
I'm all for "reckless".... better that than him fighting "not lose". He took it to Hardy and Hardy went down....end of story.
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damn right. i didn't think condit would be able to lay out hardy like that, but he sure proved me wrong.

 

[Nastycrow]

Originally posted by: dock59
Date: October 17, 2010 at 11:31 PM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/condit-kos-hardy-impressive-but-reckless.31381/

Condit beat Hardy where Hardy was best, end of discussion.

 

[Nastycrow]

Originally posted by: Bloodhound
Date: October 18, 2010 at 12:50 AM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/condit-kos-hardy-impressive-but-reckless.31381/

dock59 said:
Condit beat Hardy where Hardy was best, end of discussion.
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Props to Condit. I applaud what he did. Criticizing him seems misguided.

 

[Nastycrow]

Originally posted by: ResoluteProtector
Date: October 18, 2010 at 01:05 AM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/condit-kos-hardy-impressive-but-reckless.31381/

Condit and Torres were loved so much because they were able to take the fight anywhere, be aggressive, and still win. Fan favorites and solid fighters with the potential to be great! It would seem that Condit is settling into his own. He was still wreckless and likely would have had a much easier time taking HArdy down and submitting him, but the fight was exciting. It was the co-main event, Condit must have felt like he could handle it and he did. He took some solid shots from Hardy in the exchanges, I don't think the left hook from Hardy would have been any different.
All that being said, what do you want the man to do, be as technically sound as GSP, as strong as Alves, and as aggressive as Daley? He would be good enough to outstrike any UFC Welterweight with his display on Saturday.

 

[Nastycrow]

Originally posted by: troyo911
Date: October 18, 2010 at 10:19 AM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/condit-kos-hardy-impressive-but-reckless.31381/

i like reckless. while its not the safest option, being reckless enabled condit to finish hardy and guarentee him the win. gsp in all his safeness couldnt even finish hardy

 

[Nastycrow]

Originally posted by: leethemackem
Date: October 18, 2010 at 11:00 AM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/condit-kos-hardy-impressive-but-reckless.31381/

Its refreshing to see a fighter be "reckless". Im a big fan of Hardy but also love to watch Condit fight.He turns up to fight and it very well rounded. I'd rather see someone gto in and take risks to entertain than the safety first approaches of some fighters

 

[Nastycrow]

Originally posted by: jordorains
Date: October 18, 2010 at 11:40 AM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/condit-kos-hardy-impressive-but-reckless.31381/

I fail to see how condit was reckless in any way shape or form. He said " i can beat hardy anywhere in this fight" and he went out there and KOd hardy. Hardy wanted to keep it standing so condit kept it standing and showed him who was boss. That was skill and determination. Saying it was reckless is a very very verrrryyy passive aggressive way of saying " im mad cuz hardy lost ".

 

[Nastycrow]

Originally posted by: mmablaster
Date: October 18, 2010 at 12:11 PM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/condit-kos-hardy-impressive-but-reckless.31381/

clockwerk said:
Jak said:
I think the OP is correct, he is very good, but likes to take dangerous chances. If you watch the replay, Dan Hardy missed putting him to sleep as well by a couple of inches. We almost had a double KO on our hands.
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Yeah, each was throwing a left hook I believe and Condit landed first and with quite a bit of power. Condit likes to beat the guy he fights at their own game. I guess it might be a little reckless, but I don't mind, as I thought the 4.5 minute fight was more entertaining than Bisping v. Akiyama.