Congrats, President Elect Barack Obama
- Thread starter Nastycrow
- Start date
Gnarcore said:
He was at least outspoken about the prison culture you guys have going on. In the end it will have zero effect as those now running the show seem to be those who couldn't care less about it but hey at least he brought it into the discourse.
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Yeah, too bad he wasn't in a position to do anything besides give the issue lip service. But it is that thought that counts, right?
LnF said:
Yeah, too bad he wasn't in a position to do anything besides give the issue lip service. But it is that thought that counts, right?
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Ain't nobody got time for dat, not when you so busy running up a $20 trillion tab for the next generation to deal with.
It's cool though... all we need to right the ship is for everyone to pass the hat around and kick in $210,000 or so a piece. No biggie! We can start with my 4 year old.... I told her to save her allowance money, there's gotta be $210,000 in there by now.
LnF said:
Yeah, too bad he wasn't in a position to do anything besides give the issue lip service. But it is that thought that counts, right?
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Well he did commute and pardon a lot of minor drug offense prisoners at the end ......but yes that was the very least he could do (part of the point of my post) and the sole thing I could think of. I don't know what he'll be remembered more for...being black, being almost ineffectual about all that change, drone strike policy or the beginning of the end of that incarnation of the donkey party at the national level. Maybe just in general as an utter disappointment?
He was a good president for about 7 and a half years.
He should've done more with the DNC though. Instead of mocking Trump, he should've been telling his own party to go with Sanders as VP, not Tim Kaine. He should've been more outspoken leading his own party and not just mocking the other side.
when the leaks came out, and giving the debate questions to Clinton, he should've been more outspoken about the DNC leaders as well.
I'm looking forward to him being a voice after the 20th.
Exciting times. It's been a fun 8 years though!
CardioKing said:
Obama is one of the best presidents we have had in a very long time. None are perfect. Some are evil. Some are plain dumb. He was a middle road performer during one of the antagonistic periods for Washington Politics. That's a big accomplishment.
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Obama wasn't the worst or the best.
I do believe that history will remember him towards the lower end of the spectrum though when we look back on what he did/didn't do.
On the plus side:
- Great orator/speaker.
- Not wishy-washy at all... definitely had an agenda and stayed pretty true to that agenda throughout: expanding the federal government, veering towards socialism, started an "open" dialog on racial relations.
- He, for the most part, showed tremendous restraint and poise when under fire. Especially in his first term when he had to deal with a very hostile GOP.
On the negative side:
- He nearly doubled our national debt. He got away with it because the Fed has been manipulating interest rates to artificially low levels... but this is going to bite Trump's administration in the *** and it's not going to be Trump's fault. Same thing would have happened had Hillary been at the helm.
- He really muddied the line between federal and states rights. Oftentimes in unconstitutional fashion. Particularly in his 2nd term when he didn't have the GOP railroading him at every opportunity.
2013 was a particularly bad year for this:
http://www.forbes.com/sites/realspi...nstitutional-violations-of-2013/#44053f0141bf
- While he "started a dialog" on race. He certainly wasn't a neutral arbiter on the topic... he also largely ignored one of the largest catalysts for the racial divide, which is minority children growing up in fatherless homes.
- He really mishandled the Syria crisis, and he set relations with Russia back 20 years.
On the "too early to tell/too complex to pin on him" side:
- Obamacare is a complete boondoggle. That said, I don't think you can blame all of it on President Obama. Healthcare was going to blow up either way. Did Obamacare do more or less damage? I don't know.
CardioKing said:
Obama is one of the best presidents we have had in a very long time.
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Jak said:
He was a good president for about 7 and a half years.
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I'll ask you both this... based on what? I mean, CK, what did he do that in your eyes made him a better president than the past three or four previous ones? And I'm not asking for the standard "well, he was our first black president so he opened that door for America"-type of answer. What actions did he take and what issues did he show obvious leadership with that had a positive effect on America and the world? Or are your opinions based on you believing that the previous presidents sucked so badly that he didn't have to do much at all to be relatively fantastic president?
LnF said:
I'll ask you both this... based on what? I mean, CK, what did he do that in your eyes made him a better president than the past three or four previous ones? And I'm not asking for the standard "well, he was our first black president so he opened that door for America"-type of answer.
What actions did he take and what issues did he show obvious leadership with that had a positive effect on America and the world
? Or are your opinions based on you believing that the previous presidents sucked so badly that he didn't have to do much at all to be relatively fantastic president?
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He did show leadership with Obamacare.
He planted his flag on it... and got it accomplished. Props to him for that.
I don't think it is going to have a positive effect on America, but he did attempt to take on the issue. Love him or hate him, you have to give him credit for that.
osubuckeye4 said:
He did show leadership with Obamacare.
He planted his flag on it... and got it accomplished. Props to him for that.
I don't think it is going to have a positive effect on America, but he did attempt to take on the issue. Love him or hate him, you have to give him credit for that.
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Touche'. Okay, so he's got one thing going for him after 8 years...
osubuckeye4 said:
Obama wasn't the worst or the best.
I do believe that history will remember him towards the lower end of the spectrum though when we look back on what he did/didn't do.
On the plus side:
- Great orator/speaker.
- Not wishy-washy at all... definitely had an agenda and stayed pretty true to that agenda throughout: expanding the federal government, veering towards socialism, started an "open" dialog on racial relations.
- He, for the most part, showed tremendous restraint and poise when under fire. Especially in his first term when he had to deal with a very hostile GOP.
On the negative side:
- He nearly doubled our national debt. He got away with it because the Fed has been manipulating interest rates to artificially low levels... but this is going to bite Trump's administration in the *** and it's not going to be Trump's fault. Same thing would have happened had Hillary been at the helm.
- He really muddied the line between federal and states rights. Oftentimes in unconstitutional fashion. Particularly in his 2nd term when he didn't have the GOP railroading him at every opportunity.
2013 was a particularly bad year for this:
http://www.forbes.com/sites/realspi...nstitutional-violations-of-2013/#44053f0141bf
- While he "started a dialog" on race. He certainly wasn't a neutral arbiter on the topic... he also largely ignored one of the largest catalysts for the racial divide, which is minority children growing up in fatherless homes.
- He really mishandled the Syria crisis, and he set relations with Russia back 20 years.
On the "too early to tell/too complex to pin on him" side:
- Obamacare is a complete boondoggle. That said, I don't think you can blame all of it on President Obama. Healthcare was going to blow up either way. Did Obamacare do more or less damage? I don't know.
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What's interesting about your analysis of on the negative side is that the 3 presidents before him all have those as "con's" - even moreso than him.
In fact, he inherited a national debt problem, and as you probably remembered, the GOP basically held the national budget hostage to make sure some items Bush worked on remained, despite the price tag.
On the positives, he's never given credit for finishing the automotive bail out the GOP started, which went against his party's fundamental principles. I think that's huge to see someone else's work to fruition, as they basically say you can't and won't, when you really don't have to. lol He could have let it fall apart and blamed on the GOP. Today, the products being produced, while still inferior to some foreign offerings are a significant improvement. That has saved thousands of jobs in multiple industries.
I absolutely believe in ACA. It would have been way better if the GOP and Insurance Companies had been less resistant. I think those who oppose ACA will join former elected officials and executives who opposed free public education, community centers, social security, etc. Every argument against ACA was used to oppose each of these.
The biggest problem facing people of color isn't "fatherless homes". lol It's continued discrimination in the workplace, justice system and educational system.
And if Obama mishandled Syria, Bush Sr and Bush Jr should be in prison for their work in the Middle East, which has by far made us less safe than any other administrations in the history of America. And you can't forget that Cheney (president de facto) acted in collusion with
corporate and religious
leaders to do a host of immoral acts. Among the introduction of the private army. (think Blackwater/Xi, etc.)
I dunno. I would have liked to see some things that didn't happen, but all things considered, with every card (and GOP) actively working against, shirking their sworn duties as Americans by the way, he did a whole lot more than most could have done. Fella is alright with me.
LnF said:
I'll ask you both this... based on what?
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Liberal people i know didn't complain for about 6.5years. Then the identity stuff took over. Based on that though, his tenure was refreshingly quiet.
Plus drone strikes are quiet!
(he was feckless when russia invaded ukraine and shot down a plane)
CardioKing said:
What's interesting about your analysis of on the negative side is that the 3 presidents before him all have those as "con's" - even moreso than him.
In fact, he inherited a national debt problem, and as you probably remembered, the GOP basically held the national budget hostage to make sure some items Bush worked on remained, despite the price tag.
On the positives, he's never given credit for finishing the automotive bail out the GOP started, which went against his party's fundamental principles. I think that's huge to see someone else's work to fruition, as they basically say you can't and won't, when you really don't have to. lol He could have let it fall apart and blamed on the GOP. Today, the products being produced, while still inferior to some foreign offerings are a significant improvement. That has saved thousands of jobs in multiple industries.
I absolutely believe in ACA. It would have been way better if the GOP and Insurance Companies had been less resistant. I think those who oppose ACA will join former elected officials and executives who opposed free public education, community centers, social security, etc. Every argument against ACA was used to oppose each of these.
The biggest problem facing people of color isn't "fatherless homes". lol It's continued discrimination in the workplace, justice system and educational system.
And if Obama mishandled Syria, Bush Sr and Bush Jr should be in prison for their work in the Middle East, which has by far made us less safe than any other administrations in the history of America. And you can't forget that Cheney (president de facto) acted in collusion with
corporate and religious
leaders to do a host of immoral acts. Among the introduction of the private army. (think Blackwater/Xi, etc.)
I dunno. I would have liked to see some things that didn't happen, but all things considered, with every card (and GOP) actively working against, shirking their sworn duties as Americans by the way, he did a whole lot more than most could have done. Fella is alright with me.
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I love how every time I'm objectively critical of Obama, the response is, "yea... well W sucked!"
Agreed, we've had 16 years of presidents that history will not look back on and remember fondly.
For the record, I was somewhat on board with Obama for much of his 1st term. Thought he ate the s--- sandwich he was dealt in '08 rather admirably.
I think he really went off the rails in his 2nd term and essentially put up his middle finger and decided that if Congress wouldn't work with with him, he would wold just leapfrog over the Constitution. Just my opinion though.
Jak said:
Liberal people i know didn't complain for about 6.5years. Then the identity stuff took over. Based on that though, his tenure was refreshingly quiet.
Plus drone strikes are quiet!
(he was feckless when russia invaded ukraine and shot down a plane)
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