Crete's Corner

bconcrete

bconcrete

VolksFAGGIN
So, something I've felt since we have all moved over and gotten settled. Things are a bit stale. IDK why exactly, but it feels like in the other place we just had more of a stream of things to talk about, and now it's just more of like a stagnant pond. Nobody's fault, and it's not a bad thing necessarily, just the nature of the beast.

Be that as it may, I don't like it. I like the group, I don't like it feeling stale, and I don't like how a lot of the joking and conversation has turned off and it's been more griping and bitching and picking at each other. It's frankly kind of a drag. And I genuinely like (almost) all of you and don't want that to become our thing. Again, nobody's fault, just the nature of how these things go, but we are not a sewing circle of clucking hens.

So, this my personal attempt to get the stream of conversation flowing a bit more again. I'm going to make a concerted effort each day to post something that's on my mind. Maybe it's musings about my life. Maybe someone annoyed me and I'm going to go in on them. Maybe it'll be bulldog videos. Maybe I'll talk to myself for three days and call it quits. Who knows, it's all a mystery, but we're gonna at least try it and find out cuz I'm simply not the type to see something I don't like and not try and do something about it!

Anyone is of course free to do the same and bring anything you want to the table to discuss, this thread is meant to just go wherever and have people chatting.

PS: @Ruff Area Shot Caller eats an entire corn dog without biting it.
 
Crete Thoughts #1: What's the most important quality in a leader?

So, in my current job the thing that has me most looking to leave boils down to one thing. The leadership is just... Not leaders. They're not necessarily bad people, but they don't know HOW to lead and it drives me insane daily. There is no development of people, once you're good at your job you're STUCK. They don't want to move you or advance you, because then they'd have to replace you and that's difficult. They have policies they only selectively enforce sometimes, they allow people to take liberties they shouldn't, they gossip amongst the lower employees when they're frustrated, and they are intentionally opaque with big decisions that affect the entire company. It's just infuriating to see, coming from the school that quite literally BEATS proper leadership into you.

So it got me thinking, in yalls opinion, what is the single most important quality for a leader to possess? I don't want a whole list, just what in your mind is THE most important quality a leader can have?

I think for me, it would be "ownership." Whatever they do, they own it 100%. You can delegate tasks, but you can't delegate responsibility. I think a leader needs to be the first one with their hand up when things go wrong, if their people are working, they're working, and owning every single piece of what's in their sphere of responsibility and not putting things off because they're more difficult. Own the responsibility of leading and do what needs doing.

That's my opinion. Anyone else wanna chime in, or we wanna just sit still in the brackish water?
 
ABB said:
Humility.

Humility attracts quality people who care about what they do, people who look to take ownership of something, even if it's a small part of a small task.
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Huh, I hadn't thought of that one. Now I'm gonna think on that for a bit that's an interesting one.
 
bconcrete said:
Huh, I hadn't thought of that one. Now I'm gonna think on that for a bit that's an interesting one.
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I've worked with & for a number of pretentious pricks over the years, a lot of architects fall into this narcissistic category. No fucking humility and all about themselves and their vision. The guy/gal sitting at the top is an asshole, it makes building an open team difficult as everyone gets jumpy and presents an element of self preservation and self protection with everything they do.

It's like - we all know there's a pecking order. In my industry it goes owner, architect and his guys (engineers and specialty consultants), general contractor and his company, then a slew of subcontractors under the GC. The pecking order is understood, it doesn't need to be acted out. When the architect and his guys don't take responsibility for their job and take ownership of the detailing, or lack of detailing, everyone else notices and changes the way they operate. We know the bastard won't hesitate to lob people under the bus. That's a divided team. it forces people to protect themselves overtly, which is a waste of time. Which means a waste of money.

The guy who wants to include everyone in mapping out their desired destination invites people to the table, and people come with confidence and all work toward a goal. The guy who surprises everyone with the desired destination is bound to get his panties in a bunch once the real world questions and challenges come up. He didn't include anyone or get any advice, he's painted himself into a corner and will be looking to assign blame for anything and everything going forward.

To be humble is to remain teachable. If I get to the point where there's nothing left to learn, it's time to hang em up and do something else.
 
1 I agree re the staleness. I think a downturn in quality ufc and summer holidays is a factor and it will hopefully pick up come autumn. I for one have missed crow this week and I miss tito greatly although understand his reasons for taking a step back

2 leadership. Working in sales I find people who end up as leaders are often the top sales people and whilst they are good at sales it doesn't mean they are good at leading. I think it needs self awareness, an ability to delegate and not micro manage, to understand that individuals need managing as individuals and everyone responds differently and don't ask someone to do something you wouldn't be willing to do yourself

3 love this and you guys
 
Webble said:
I think you are likely right in that the Testosterone gives the drive to become the leader in the first place
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And increases massively the moment you take your place as leader, but mainly if it’s on merit rather than by dictation.
It is so interesting to note that when asked, group members consider that leader to be the best person to lead the group due to micro transactions or culturally strongly represented values, and they are definitely very important, but if you measure everyone’s testosterone the one who got voted leader is almost always the one with high T.
Then a person with lower testosterone who gets into a leadership position due to obligation usually suffers terrible health and stress.
Hormones are so key in hierarchical relationships. Not only regarding leadership but in day to day group dynamics. If you remove a toxic leader and the replacement is more benevolent, cortisol levels will reduce throughout the group and supportive relationships increase. Then testosterone spikes will reduce but that is due to less fighting. Overall testosterone to cortisol balance will improve markedly and general happiness trickles down. It is a clear pattern.
 
Jizz Karma said:
And increases massively the moment you take your place as leader, but mainly if it’s on merit rather than by dictation.
It is so interesting to note that when asked, group members consider that leader to be the best person to lead the group due to micro transactions or culturally strongly represented values, and they are definitely very important, but if you measure everyone’s testosterone the one who got voted leader is almost always the one with high T.
Then a person with lower testosterone who gets into a leadership position due to obligation usually suffers terrible health and stress.
Hormones are so key in hierarchical relationships. Not only regarding leadership but in day to day group dynamics. If you remove a toxic leader and the replacement is more benevolent, cortisol levels will reduce throughout the group and supportive relationships increase. Then testosterone spikes will reduce but that is due to less fighting. Overall testosterone to cortisol balance will improve markedly and general happiness trickles down. It is a clear pattern.
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Did some reading and not entirely sure I'm buying it.

Correlation/causation fallacy. High testosterone can make one seek out leadership roles, but I'm not seeing anything indicative of the inverse ie that leadership requires high testosterone.

Additionally, nothing I've read says the high T person would be a GOOD leader or exhibit strong leadership qualities once they're in that position, which would just make them a boss, not a true leader.
 
Acknowledgement of and respect for the reality that all leaders got in that position by creating the strongest group of people. When you make a decision, then upon receiving information from others who you know, know more about the subject than you alone, be consistent in accepting that input and having the respect toward others to acknowledge that, the changes you are making in your initial assessment are a result of them. Consistently ask for and implement whatever is the best outcome, but know what outcome you are seeking in each individual situation. Rigidity is the hobgoblin of insecure and thus ineffective leaders.
 
Not sure about the number one quality but a leader has to be good at reading people so they can be good at vetting. Yesterday I called an old coworker and he put my old manager on the phone. They were fixing to have a meeting with a driver about being slow. They've been through atleast 5 drivers since I've left because they fool him in the interviews and he is just trying to fill a spot instead of taking his time to look for the right person. So I guess I'm trying to say to be a good leader you have to be able to build a good team which now I realize @Webble just said lmao
 
Alright so far we have;
1) ownership
2) humility
3) testosterone (still not sure I agree with but it's on the list)
4) self awareness
5) team building

I'm finding it very interesting to see what people view as the most important quality based on their own experiences.
 
bconcrete said:
Crete Thoughts #1: What's the most important quality in a leader?

So, in my current job the thing that has me most looking to leave boils down to one thing. The leadership is just... Not leaders. They're not necessarily bad people, but they don't know HOW to lead and it drives me insane daily. There is no development of people, once you're good at your job you're STUCK. They don't want to move you or advance you, because then they'd have to replace you and that's difficult. They have policies they only selectively enforce sometimes, they allow people to take liberties they shouldn't, they gossip amongst the lower employees when they're frustrated, and they are intentionally opaque with big decisions that affect the entire company. It's just infuriating to see, coming from the school that quite literally BEATS proper leadership into you.

So it got me thinking, in yalls opinion, what is the single most important quality for a leader to possess? I don't want a whole list, just what in your mind is THE most important quality a leader can have?

I think for me, it would be "ownership." Whatever they do, they own it 100%. You can delegate tasks, but you can't delegate responsibility. I think a leader needs to be the first one with their hand up when things go wrong, if their people are working, they're working, and owning every single piece of what's in their sphere of responsibility and not putting things off because they're more difficult. Own the responsibility of leading and do what needs doing.

That's my opinion. Anyone else wanna chime in, or we wanna just sit still in the brackish water?
Click to expand...

For true leadership, ownership/accountability is huge. I'd agree that for a leader, that's #1.

I'm willing to follow someone into the shit (assuming the cause is just and/or the pay is right) if I know that they are going to be accountable for the overall outcome. I can't stand leaders who try to deflect blame. You assumed leadership and it's on you to make sure that the right people are put in positions to make the effort a success. I understand that sometimes there are extraordinary force majeure situations outside of a leaders control and it's fine if they acknowledge them in the debrief, but I still want the leader to own the portions that were on them.

Put it this way... if the weather ends up causing the failure I don't expect the leader to say the weather was his fault... I do expect them to own the part where they didn't check the forecast and have a backup plan if the weather sucked.



Saying that, I draw a distinction between true leadership and simple workplace management. I've had very few (maybe 0?) managers at work that I would follow into the shit. Managers job isn't to get me to follow them into hell... it's to keep me on task during the work day, when the clock strikes 5 I'm out and we go our separate ways.

For me, consistency is the most important management quality. Of course, that assumes that you are at least remedially qualified to hold the role.

I say that because over the years I've found that the worst managers/directors I've had have all been wildly inconsistent on a day to day (sometimes hour to hour) basis. I had one manager who was an alcoholic and you have no idea wtf you were going to walk into when your shift started. He might scream at you for talking to loud, he might be in a jovial mood and say lunch is on him and be a joy to hang out with... you had no idea and it ended up making the workplace a complete mess. It's impossible to work efficiently in an environment like that.

Juxtapose that with managers who have their shit together emotionally/professionally and are consistent? I've found that I can always work with that. If I think you're a bitch, but you're consistently a bitch, I can deal with it and adjust my expectations and roll with the fact that that is just how you're wired. If I think you're a cool laid back person and that's the way you consistently are? Awesome, I can work with that. If you are lazy, but consistently lazy... okay, I'll adjust and we'll figure it out together.

What I can't work with is someone who is a total bitch one day and then cool as hell the next day and it has nothing to do with anything outside of their own fucked up emotional state.


(and of course no one is robot... if my managers wife dies I don't expect him to be exactly the same as he would be on any other day. I'm talking about wild inconsistency for no legitimate reason)
 
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bconcrete said:
Crete Thoughts #1: What's the most important quality in a leader?

So, in my current job the thing that has me most looking to leave boils down to one thing. The leadership is just... Not leaders. They're not necessarily bad people, but they don't know HOW to lead and it drives me insane daily. There is no development of people, once you're good at your job you're STUCK. They don't want to move you or advance you, because then they'd have to replace you and that's difficult. They have policies they only selectively enforce sometimes, they allow people to take liberties they shouldn't, they gossip amongst the lower employees when they're frustrated, and they are intentionally opaque with big decisions that affect the entire company. It's just infuriating to see, coming from the school that quite literally BEATS proper leadership into you.

So it got me thinking, in yalls opinion, what is the single most important quality for a leader to possess? I don't want a whole list, just what in your mind is THE most important quality a leader can have?

I think for me, it would be "ownership." Whatever they do, they own it 100%. You can delegate tasks, but you can't delegate responsibility. I think a leader needs to be the first one with their hand up when things go wrong, if their people are working, they're working, and owning every single piece of what's in their sphere of responsibility and not putting things off because they're more difficult. Own the responsibility of leading and do what needs doing.

That's my opinion. Anyone else wanna chime in, or we wanna just sit still in the brackish water?
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Accountability. And I think ownership ties in with that. A leader keeps you accountable, which makes you do your job better, but they also keep themselves accountable so you can respect them. Whatever standard they set, it's for both you and themselves. A good leader will have a realistic but quality standard and everyone is kept accountable to keep it.

I have worked for leaders who are pure garbage. So bad that I and the guys I worked with nicknamed him "CB" which stood for colostomy bag. Because he might as well have been one. Now under my current job, my manager and our department director are easily the best leaders I've ever worked for. My manager is not only an absolute wizard when it comes to IT, he has managed to find the delicate sweet spot of accountability without micromanaging. That's a difficult place to exist. But he keeps the team on track, he communicates effectively, he advocates for us, and doesn't expect us to operate at a level he doesn't already meet himself.
 
bconcrete said:
Crete Thoughts #1: What's the most important quality in a leader?

So, in my current job the thing that has me most looking to leave boils down to one thing. The leadership is just... Not leaders. They're not necessarily bad people, but they don't know HOW to lead and it drives me insane daily. There is no development of people, once you're good at your job you're STUCK. They don't want to move you or advance you, because then they'd have to replace you and that's difficult. They have policies they only selectively enforce sometimes, they allow people to take liberties they shouldn't, they gossip amongst the lower employees when they're frustrated, and they are intentionally opaque with big decisions that affect the entire company. It's just infuriating to see, coming from the school that quite literally BEATS proper leadership into you.

So it got me thinking, in yalls opinion, what is the single most important quality for a leader to possess? I don't want a whole list, just what in your mind is THE most important quality a leader can have?

I think for me, it would be "ownership." Whatever they do, they own it 100%. You can delegate tasks, but you can't delegate responsibility. I think a leader needs to be the first one with their hand up when things go wrong, if their people are working, they're working, and owning every single piece of what's in their sphere of responsibility and not putting things off because they're more difficult. Own the responsibility of leading and do what needs doing.

That's my opinion. Anyone else wanna chime in, or we wanna just sit still in the brackish water?
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Empathy
Keep in mind, i am weird, so i was never the "get the biggest job and the most money/bitches" kind of person.
If i was ever content with something, it usually would not change and therefore i would not want another position.
So what many people prefer in a job, i most of the time do not care about.

But empathy was always important to me.
The bosses i hated the most, were the ones, that were unable to project themselves in the position of other people.
Giving deadlines that are just impossible to keep up.
Being rude all the time, while complaining, why nobody likes to work here.
Putting up rules, they won't honor themselves, but claim everyone is equal.
Shit like that.

Obviously a boss can do whatever the fuck he wants, he is the boss.
But everybody can call in sick or look for another job as well.

EDIT.. i guess my falls under self awareness?
 
osubuckeye4 said:
(and of course no one is robot... if my managers wife dies I don't expect him to be exactly the same as he would be on any other day. I'm talking about wild inconsistency for no legitimate reason)
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if the manager's wife dies and he suddenly become consistently nice would it be rude to bring him some Congratulations balloons?
 
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