Has GSP "over-refined" his game?

Nastycrow

Mr. BlobTitz
Staff member
Originally posted by: Aetherial
Date: March 28, 2010 at 12:25 PM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/has-gsp-over-refined-his-game.23873/

One thought throughout the GSP fight that kept coming back to me is how much he sticks to a game plan, and how patient he is. GSP fights like a machine. There are very few (obviously some, like how he consistently gets too high when he takes someone's back) holes in his game, but he has pretty much perfected the take down and avoids taking any damage.
I just think perhaps he has grown too cautious. It is almost like there is so much technically going on in his head + so much "game plan", that he doesn't seem willing to just let it go and get vicious. Forget the armbar and kimura, I think he could have pummelled Hardy into oblivion, or a darce choke, or the arm triangle looked to be there all night... It seemed almost as though that wasn't part of his game plan, so he didn't try.
Basically, he has become one of the most perfect defensive fighters in the game. I can't really blame him. After all, the 2 goals in any fight are to win and to avoid damage. He succeeds. His offense seems to have suffered though.
I just think perhaps, a little more raw aggression, like he had earlier in his career, would be more entertaining... and maybe more convincing for some people of just how good he is.
 
Originally posted by: fishfryer
Date: March 28, 2010 at 12:36 PM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/has-gsp-over-refined-his-game.23873/

Good point. I think he is so good and so smart that there is no reason to take chances to win. Aside from some good sub defense and crazy pain tolerance/flexibility, hardy had nothing, he was a victim. I think if GSP wanted, he could have put a dress on him and paraded him around the ring and called Mary if he felt like it.
 
Originally posted by: smfowns4
Date: March 28, 2010 at 12:36 PM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/has-gsp-over-refined-his-game.23873/

I wouldn't say "over-refined". But more of perfected.
 
Originally posted by: txfan
Date: March 28, 2010 at 12:42 PM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/has-gsp-over-refined-his-game.23873/

I think he has. Altough his coach kept giving him instructions that he followed to a tee. I feel he followed them to much. At some point you got to let it flow and trust in your skills to win the fight. He has awsome skills all around. I think after the serra fight he became to defensive a fighter. Just my view.
 
Originally posted by: Aetherial
Date: March 28, 2010 at 12:51 PM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/has-gsp-over-refined-his-game.23873/

txfan said:
I think he has. Altough his coach kept giving him instructions that he followed to a tee. I feel he followed them to much. At some point you got to let it flow and trust in your skills to win the fight. He has awsome skills all around. I think after the serra fight he became to defensive a fighter. Just my view.
Click to expand...
Agreed. I think he decided to pretty much perfect his defense. He is not likely to be subbed while on top, so why not spend all your time on top.
It isn't like he doesn't try to win by submission, it is like he just holds back...
 
Originally posted by: Puxin
Date: March 28, 2010 at 02:49 PM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/has-gsp-over-refined-his-game.23873/

Aetherial said:
txfan said:
I think he has. Altough his coach kept giving him instructions that he followed to a tee. I feel he followed them to much. At some point you got to let it flow and trust in your skills to win the fight. He has awsome skills all around. I think after the serra fight he became to defensive a fighter. Just my view.
Click to expand...
Agreed. I think he decided to pretty much perfect his defense. He is not likely to be subbed while on top, so why not spend all your time on top.
It isn't like he doesn't try to win by submission, it is like he just holds back...
Click to expand...
How many hockey teams pull their goalie when they have a lead, or the game is tied? Why take unnecessary risks?
 
Originally posted by: vfrex
Date: March 28, 2010 at 02:59 PM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/has-gsp-over-refined-his-game.23873/

I don't blame GSP for not finishing the fight. Hardy refused to take any risks himself.
 
Originally posted by: TheLethalLefty
Date: March 28, 2010 at 02:59 PM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/has-gsp-over-refined-his-game.23873/

Puxin said:
Aetherial said:
txfan said:
I think he has. Altough his coach kept giving him instructions that he followed to a tee. I feel he followed them to much. At some point you got to let it flow and trust in your skills to win the fight. He has awsome skills all around. I think after the serra fight he became to defensive a fighter. Just my view.
Click to expand...
Agreed. I think he decided to pretty much perfect his defense. He is not likely to be subbed while on top, so why not spend all your time on top.
It isn't like he doesn't try to win by submission, it is like he just holds back...
Click to expand...
How many hockey teams pull their goalie when they have a lead, or the game is tied? Why take unnecessary risks?
Click to expand...
Not the greatest analogy but I get what you are saying. I disagree with it though. If he doesn't start jazzing up his fights and actually finishing his fights, he will lose most of his fanbase. And trying to finish a fight isn't an unnecessary risk. Letting it go to the judges is and giving your opponent more opportunities to catch you is.
 
Originally posted by: Puxin
Date: March 28, 2010 at 03:06 PM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/has-gsp-over-refined-his-game.23873/

I thought it was a pretty good analogy: forget about defense and go all out for offense. I don't think GSP had any reason to fear the judges' scorecards or Hardy's ground game, so he wasn't at risk by not finishing the fight. Yes, he will lose some "fans" if he doesn't finish fights, but 2 decisions in a row isn't the end of the world.
 
Originally posted by: EdoKaz818
Date: March 28, 2010 at 03:11 PM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/has-gsp-over-refined-his-game.23873/

GSP has become more of a wrestler then anything.
GSP from the Alves and BJ fight was at least striking a little bit but this time strictly on the floor.
The fight was an basic instructional video on repeat.
 
Originally posted by: LouEvil
Date: March 28, 2010 at 03:21 PM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/has-gsp-over-refined-his-game.23873/

I believe he has.....all the GSP fanboys out there ca say otherwise, but IMO the Serra loss is what caused this change in styles. He doesn't want to get KO'd again, so he plays it safe by utilizing his athleticism & strength to get takedowns and control his opponents on the ground. Gone are the days where we see spinning back kicks and superman punches from Rush. He has evolved into a better version of Jon Fitch.
 
Originally posted by: Voodstoc
Date: March 28, 2010 at 04:05 PM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/has-gsp-over-refined-his-game.23873/

Most people are talking about GSP not striking more. I think takedowns are exciting. I think sub attempts are exciting. Be honest, through most of the fight you were waiting for GSP to submit him. The shocking thing is that Hardy didn't tap on the armbar, though I believe that GSP could have damaged the arm, had he been that type of person.
GSP's world is bigger than the UFC. If it suits him to strike more, then he will. It's all about the matchup and the good matchups are somewhat thin for him, which is why Hardy got the shot, IMHO. To criticize GSP for not risking another knockout is ridiculous. He's not even 30, doesn't take much damage while dominating his opponents and I think he wants to hold that title for years to come. That is what he means when he talks about his legacy.
I wasn't impressed by GSP, but not because of his gameplan, but because his opponent didn't have the ability to threaten him at any time. THAT is where the excitement comes from: a great battle.
~J
 
Originally posted by: HBK42581
Date: March 28, 2010 at 04:13 PM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/has-gsp-over-refined-his-game.23873/

GSP is just good enough to adapt his game into a winning formula no matter who he fights. His last three fights have been against pretty fierce strikers (BJ, Alves and Hardy.) Anyone of these guys could knock him out on the feet with a flash KO, so if you know that's a possibility, why not neutralize that part of the person's game so as to make your chance of winning a higher one and there's a lesser one. The next time we see GSP go up against someone who isn't really a feared striker (ie: Fitch, Hughes, Sherk) you will see him open up with some strikes and rely less on his GnP. It all comes down to who he's facing. If the opponent doesn't want to get taken down by him, and keep the fight standing, then the opponent should work harder to stuff GSP's take downs. GSP fights smart fights. Bottom line.
 
Originally posted by: Portillo
Date: March 28, 2010 at 05:27 PM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/has-gsp-over-refined-his-game.23873/

He needs to start having fun in his fights like AS.
 
Originally posted by: Aetherial
Date: March 28, 2010 at 06:11 PM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/has-gsp-over-refined-his-game.23873/

Just so as I am clear...
As much as I would like to see GSP annihilate people, if I were his coach(es) I would not change a damn thing. This is his career. The goal of not taking damage is extremely important.
He has (so far) figured out a way that he can win every fight, and completely neutralize his opponent's threats, while staying unscathed. If it was disappointing from a pure fan/excitement/carnage perspective, you would have to say it is the perfect MMA strategy for his skillset.
My disappointment that he didn't finish a punk like Hardy can't be confused by my admiration for the fact that he is pretty much unstoppable in this weight class right now. He definitely learned something from the Serra fight. He works as hard as anyone and has molded himself into pretty much ultimate octogon machine at this point. I think the only thing that could challenge him now is a wrestler of equal caliber who also is his equal in BJJ, Karate, and Muay Thai.
Right now, at this weight class, we have not seen that person.
I will still be a fan of his even if he never changes his current style. Success is success, bottom line.
 
Originally posted by: SlyJavi
Date: March 28, 2010 at 08:06 PM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/has-gsp-over-refined-his-game.23873/

LouEvil said:
I believe he has.....all the GSP fanboys out there ca say otherwise, but IMO the Serra loss is what caused this change in styles. He doesn't want to get KO'd again, so he plays it safe by utilizing his athleticism & strength to get takedowns and control his opponents on the ground.
Gone are the days where we see spinning back kicks and superman punches from Rush.
He has evolved into a better version of Jon Fitch.
Click to expand...
Apparently, you have a very low comprehension of what you watch and what you remember.
2nd Round: 1st Superman punch at 1:30; 2nd Superman punch at 0:47 and Goldie calls out,"Superman punch".
Next time, do us all a favor and pay attention to the fight, or I will creep out of the darkness and call you on it.
Carry on.
 
Originally posted by: Puxin
Date: March 28, 2010 at 08:09 PM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/has-gsp-over-refined-his-game.23873/

SlyJavi said:
LouEvil said:
I believe he has.....all the GSP fanboys out there ca say otherwise, but IMO the Serra loss is what caused this change in styles. He doesn't want to get KO'd again, so he plays it safe by utilizing his athleticism & strength to get takedowns and control his opponents on the ground.
Gone are the days where we see spinning back kicks and superman punches from Rush.
He has evolved into a better version of Jon Fitch.
Click to expand...
Apparently, you have a very low comprehension of what you watch and what you remember.
2nd Round: 1st Superman punch at 1:30; 2nd Superman punch at 0:47 and Goldie calls out,"Superman punch".
Next time, do us all a favor and pay attention to the fight, or I will creep out of the darkness and call you on it.
Carry on.
Click to expand...
Yeah, but, but, that was yesterday. Those days are gone, my friend, gone.
 
Originally posted by: roxbringer
Date: March 28, 2010 at 08:32 PM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/has-gsp-over-refined-his-game.23873/

SlyJavi said:
LouEvil said:
I believe he has.....all the GSP fanboys out there ca say otherwise, but IMO the Serra loss is what caused this change in styles. He doesn't want to get KO'd again, so he plays it safe by utilizing his athleticism & strength to get takedowns and control his opponents on the ground.
Gone are the days where we see spinning back kicks and superman punches from Rush.
He has evolved into a better version of Jon Fitch.
Click to expand...
Apparently, you have a very low comprehension of what you watch and what you remember.
2nd Round: 1st Superman punch at 1:30; 2nd Superman punch at 0:47 and Goldie calls out,"Superman punch".
Next time, do us all a favor and pay attention to the fight, or I will creep out of the darkness and call you on it.
Carry on.
Click to expand...
also he landed a pretty nice side kick forget what round
 
Originally posted by: Siber_77
Date: March 28, 2010 at 08:40 PM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/has-gsp-over-refined-his-game.23873/

look GSP went out and followed his game plan....I think he gave hardy way to much respect but he took him away from his only strength Stand UP.he arm bared him and the guy didn't tap.he Kumored him and the guy didn't tap.what he should have done is break his arm him.he made a guy that was decent top 5 in the division look bad .....look at what he did to alves,Fitch and penn.....he is by far the best in the division.when Matt hughs went out and laid and prayed he was named a legend ...st.pierre never stopped trying to improve his position.....what is being missed is hardy fought to go 5 rounds he didn't fight to win like he said he was going ....just because he didn't tap he is being called a tough guy and is getting respect....watch the prime time speacal he said he was going to knock him out rough him up show him no respect...the guy went out had no take down defense and survived he didn't fight off his back and did 0....it takes two to tango and if one guy is the only one fighting ie Anderson silva vs tailes laites then he will look bad.
 
Originally posted by: Cavediver
Date: March 28, 2010 at 08:45 PM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/has-gsp-over-refined-his-game.23873/

GSP executed an almost flawless gameplan. Completely neutralizing Hardy. He tried to finish,but the best laid plans don't aways workout.
I do however think some people = fans (overthink) things
 
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