If you were a fighter, would you try out for TUF?

[Nastycrow]

Originally posted by: Flound
Date: March 18, 2013 at 05:03 PM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/if-you-were-a-fighter-would-you-try-out-for-tuf.52994/

NicoSuave said:
Can I hear a few of your opinions of how you would feel living in the house?
Keep in mind you could end up being featured on a dual-division season, so size and gender could play a role in how your housemates treat each other.
Click to expand...
Omg, give me a controlled environment, a few extended conversations and maybe a week of observation - I'd be all set. With five more weeks -
I'd do some of my best work there.
I think I could win at least one fight on mind f--- alone. Depending on the personalities, maybe even two.
There's always at least one mentally shaky guy - usually great gym guy, formidable reputation, but ragingly insecure enough that some off hand, back handed criticisms posed as friendly dialogue can work wonders. The Scarola effect, but intentionally applied.
Hell, I could even get dirty, too. Make sure the spice rack contains Accent seasoning. An ever so light dusting of this (it's MSG) on someone veggies, meat or savory dishes would be virtually unnoticeable by the consumer. Water retention, thirst, a wee bit of lethargy could be some desired results - not even to overwhelm but just make weight cutting more difficult, just make them a little flat.

 

[Nastycrow]

Originally posted by: NicoSuave
Date: March 18, 2013 at 05:21 PM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/if-you-were-a-fighter-would-you-try-out-for-tuf.52994/

Flound said:
Omg, give me a controlled environment, a few extended conversations and maybe a week of observation - I'd be all set. With five more weeks -
I'd do some of my best work there.
I think I could win at least one fight on mind f--- alone. Depending on the personalities, maybe even two.
There's always at least one mentally shaky guy - usually great gym guy, formidable reputation, but ragingly insecure enough that some off hand, back handed criticisms posed as friendly dialogue can work wonders. The Scarola effect, but intentionally applied.
Hell, I could even get dirty, too. Make sure the spice rack contains Accent seasoning. An ever so light dusting of this (it's MSG) on someone veggies, meat or savory dishes would be virtually unnoticeable by the consumer. Water retention, thirst, a wee bit of lethargy could be some desired results - not even to overwhelm but just make weight cutting more difficult, just make them a little flat.
Click to expand...
Jesus Christ, that's just plain evil!

 

[Nastycrow]

Originally posted by: osubuckeye4
Date: March 18, 2013 at 05:24 PM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/if-you-were-a-fighter-would-you-try-out-for-tuf.52994/

Moranis said:
But that just isn't true. Those TUF guys make way more money their TUF contracts from the UFC if they achieve a certain level of fame. Put it this way, do you really only think Roy Nelson gets 48k for the fights he is winning now? If so I have some nice beachfront property to sell you. It is is Missouri, but I'm sure you will just love it.
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Nelson made $15,000 to fight Junior dos Santos (his 4th UFC fight)
Source:
http://www.mmajunkie.com/news/2010/...nd-matt-hughes-lead-1-million-fighter-payroll
When Nelson fought Werdum, he made $20,000. (it was his 6th UFC fight)
Source:
http://www.mmajunkie.com/news/2012/02/ufc-143-salaries-diaz-200k-and-koscheck-140k-earn-top-paydays
Even at UFC 146 against Dave Herman (Nelson's 7th fight), he was still fighting 20/20 show/win split
Source:
http://www.mmajunkie.com/news/2012/05/ufc-146-salaries-dos-santos-mir-and-velasquez-lead-payroll
I know that his pay has jumped in his last bout (he made $110,000 against Mitrione)... but he was getting paid next to nothing for his first 7 fights, despite being on main cards.
Also.... remember that Nelson became a TUF coach prior to facing Mitrione, so that would explain why his payrate was inflated for that fight. Up till that though? He was making no more than $20,000/20,000... despite being a 6 fight UFC veteran.
Last thing. Nelson had 4 "bonus" in those 7 fights. If anyone should have gotten a huge bump in his contract it was that guy, but he was locked into his TUF salary.

 

[Nastycrow]

Originally posted by: Flound
Date: March 18, 2013 at 05:32 PM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/if-you-were-a-fighter-would-you-try-out-for-tuf.52994/

NicoSuave said:
Jesus Christ, that's just plain evil!
Click to expand...
I dunno about evil so much. Absent of almost all ethical consideration, undoubtedly. Duplicitous and underhanded, for sure.
But evil? Nah.
I think evil would constitute spiking someone's stuff with a drop of Visine.

 

[Nastycrow]

Originally posted by: Moranis
Date: March 18, 2013 at 05:32 PM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/if-you-were-a-fighter-would-you-try-out-for-tuf.52994/

osubuckeye4 said:
This is a chicken/egg arguement though.
The small orgs will only hire guys they have heard of... but, if you're good enough to make it on TUF, you have to be good enough to win in the small orgs.
Outside of Amir Sodallah, almost everyone on TUF has had at least some moderate success in the smaller orgs.
And if they didn't, they were at least attached with a "name" gym and had coaches vouch for their skillset to UFC brass.
Click to expand...
maybe you should exempt the first season from your statement. Florian was 2-1 and the loss was his most recent fight. Koscheck was 2-0. Hoger and Karalexis were 4-0. Rafferty 5-4. Southworth 6-3.
Or how about this for experience from season 2: Luke Cummo 3-2, Rob Macdonald and Brad Imes 3-0.
And it wasn't just the first two seasons. Season 6, for example, was littered with guys that weren't exactly stellar. I mean aside from Mac Danzig.
The whole point of the show it to find the unknown talents, sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. I mean look at Florian and Koscheck and Maynard (who was just 2-0 as well), virtual unknowns that became big stars. Matt Hammil had 1 professional fight before TUF and had a very good UFC career. More times than not the fighters flame out, but the UFC has been very good about using TUF to find unknowns and make them stars.

 

[Nastycrow]

Originally posted by: redstar
Date: March 18, 2013 at 05:33 PM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/if-you-were-a-fighter-would-you-try-out-for-tuf.52994/

Hell yeah,
Way to old now, but the chance to just train for six weeks!
Did bt/ait when I was 17-18, and now with age am wistful about that spartan period of my life.
I doubt I would be competitive enough. Just not me, but would love the journey for sure.

 

[Nastycrow]

Originally posted by: Moranis
Date: March 18, 2013 at 05:33 PM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/if-you-were-a-fighter-would-you-try-out-for-tuf.52994/

osubuckeye4 said:
Nelson made $15,000 to fight Junior dos Santos (his 4th UFC fight)
Source:
http://www.mmajunkie.com/news/2010/...nd-matt-hughes-lead-1-million-fighter-payroll
When Nelson fought Werdum, he made $20,000. (it was his 6th UFC fight)
Source:
http://www.mmajunkie.com/news/2012/02/ufc-143-salaries-diaz-200k-and-koscheck-140k-earn-top-paydays
Even at UFC 146 against Dave Herman (Nelson's 7th fight), he was still fighting 20/20 show/win split
Source:
http://www.mmajunkie.com/news/2012/05/ufc-146-salaries-dos-santos-mir-and-velasquez-lead-payroll
I know that his pay has jumped in his last bout (he made $110,000 against Mitrione)... but he was getting paid next to nothing for his first 7 fights, despite being on main cards.
Also.... remember that Nelson became a TUF coach prior to facing Mitrione, so that would explain why his payrate was inflated for that fight. Up till that though? He was making no more than $20,000/20,000... despite being a 6 fight UFC veteran.
Last thing. Nelson had 4 "bonus" in those 7 fights. If anyone should have gotten a huge bump in his contract it was that guy, but he was locked into his TUF salary.
Click to expand...
REPORTED PAY IS NOT ACTUAL PAY. Why do people still not understand this?

 

[Nastycrow]

Originally posted by: NicoSuave
Date: March 18, 2013 at 05:35 PM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/if-you-were-a-fighter-would-you-try-out-for-tuf.52994/

Flound said:
I dunno about evil so much. Absent of almost all ethical consideration, undoubtedly. Duplicitous and underhanded, for sure.
But evil? Nah.
I think evil would constitute spiking someone's stuff with a drop of Visine
.
Click to expand...
Or switching the asparagus with weed.

 

[Nastycrow]

Originally posted by: phoenix-mma
Date: March 18, 2013 at 05:38 PM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/if-you-were-a-fighter-would-you-try-out-for-tuf.52994/

Or spunking on their sushi

 

[Nastycrow]

Originally posted by: Contender
Date: March 18, 2013 at 05:44 PM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/if-you-were-a-fighter-would-you-try-out-for-tuf.52994/

I was pretty easy-going when I was young. Gregarious, trusting, personable. I probably would've done OK in the house having already lived in lots of sharehousing situations with difficult personalities.
Fast-forward 20+ years and I'd be a nightmare in that house. Manipulative, passive-aggressive, aggressive-aggressive, poking the bears (not a gay euphemism or idiom), and generally being a pain.

 

[Nastycrow]

Originally posted by: Flound
Date: March 18, 2013 at 05:54 PM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/if-you-were-a-fighter-would-you-try-out-for-tuf.52994/

NicoSuave said:
Or switching the asparagus with weed.
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That's a possible evil. It could been on TUF 7, Matt Riddle. He might have thought he got done a solid.
Or TUF 5. Nate Diaz. Another guy perhaps not thinking so negatively.
Besides, you run the risk smuggling weed in. Accent could be put on the food order and no one the wiser. They bring it in for you. You're literally just putting a tiny pinch on. No one would even know some was gone if you timed it right and weren't caught on camera. You could dose the whole house once every few days.
I'm a good cook, too. I'd constantly be in the kitchen prepping food. Shared pastas and rice. "Hey man, I made extra, you can finish my rice/pasta/roasted root veggies/baked chicken/fish." I could increase everyone's salt intake just enough.
You'd be surprised how easy is to incorporate pickle juice into some dishes, too. Like an egg white omelet.
Like I said, I would some of my best work in the house. I'd totally be gaming it.
That's why I gotta tip my hat to Diaz's camp - specifically Shields, creating the disturbance in St. Pierre's locker room, after he'd been gloved up and signed off by the commission. Yelling and creating a disturbance just before fight time.
The boys play rough in the 'bigs'. All's fair in love and war.
Just as cool, that GSP saw it for what it was. These guys don't f--- around.

 

[Nastycrow]

Originally posted by: Fight Magnet
Date: March 18, 2013 at 08:27 PM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/if-you-were-a-fighter-would-you-try-out-for-tuf.52994/

Moranis said:
REPORTED PAY IS NOT ACTUAL PAY. Why do people still not understand this?
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You know he understands that, what he also realizes is, using his JDS example, is that JDS's reported pay is not his actual pay either. He makes more for his reported pay than he would have with a TUF contract; in addition, to his unreported pay. Just cause a guy hasn't taken the TUF root doesn't mean he's not receiving locker room bonuses as well. Over all his pay is higher.(JDS's)

 

[Nastycrow]

Originally posted by: Moranis
Date: March 18, 2013 at 08:30 PM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/if-you-were-a-fighter-would-you-try-out-for-tuf.52994/

Fight Genome said:
You know he understands that, what he also realizes is, using his JDS example, is that JDS's reported pay is not his actual pay either. He makes more for his reported pay than he would have with a TUF contract; in addition, to his unreported pay. Just cause a guy hasn't taken the TUF root doesn't mean he's not receiving locker room bonuses as well.
Click to expand...
of course they do, but I wouldn't bet he knows that.

 

[Nastycrow]

Originally posted by: pridefighter27
Date: March 18, 2013 at 08:56 PM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/if-you-were-a-fighter-would-you-try-out-for-tuf.52994/

Why not? TUF is probaly the fastest way to get in the UFC by beating a couple no name fighters.

 

[Nastycrow]

Originally posted by: MacWombat
Date: March 18, 2013 at 09:25 PM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/if-you-were-a-fighter-would-you-try-out-for-tuf.52994/

It depends on how good you are. If you think you're going to make it to the UFC anyway I don't think it's worth it. Look at Joe Lauzon, did going to TUF really help him? I don't think so. I think it actually made him look weaker than he is by losing to Manny (I think that's who he lost to). Don't get me wrong, at the time I thought it was a genius move, but in retrospect I think he would've been better off just fighting in the UFC. At the least I don't think it would've hindered him. On the other hand, some fighters really have no business ever fighting in the UFC but get to because they won a fight on TUF and then get called for the finale. Now, even if they lose and immediately get cut, they get to sell themselves as a UFC veteran and make more money back on the regional circuit.

 

[Nastycrow]

Originally posted by: KZUFCchamp2013
Date: March 18, 2013 at 10:59 PM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/if-you-were-a-fighter-would-you-try-out-for-tuf.52994/

I would try out if I was on a good run and probably close to a contract but I lost a fight and suddenly I wasn't close to being signed. I would also try out if I had a decent record but nothing that will catch the ufcs eyes as someone who they need to sign

 

[Nastycrow]

Originally posted by: Spud
Date: March 18, 2013 at 11:15 PM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/if-you-were-a-fighter-would-you-try-out-for-tuf.52994/

The lure of TUF is pretty big for fighters trying to make it in MMA, so if I was a fighter I'd probably try out. Not only does it give you plenty of exposure, the chance of winning it gives you more of a chance of keeping your job after a couple losses.

 

[Nastycrow]

Originally posted by: osubuckeye4
Date: March 19, 2013 at 09:01 AM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/if-you-were-a-fighter-would-you-try-out-for-tuf.52994/

Moranis said:
maybe you should exempt the first season from your statement. Florian was 2-1 and the loss was his most recent fight. Koscheck was 2-0. Hoger and Karalexis were 4-0. Rafferty 5-4. Southworth 6-3.
Or how about this for experience from season 2: Luke Cummo 3-2, Rob Macdonald and Brad Imes 3-0.
And it wasn't just the first two seasons. Season 6, for example, was littered with guys that weren't exactly stellar. I mean aside from Mac Danzig.
The whole point of the show it to find the unknown talents, sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. I mean look at Florian and Koscheck and Maynard (who was just 2-0 as well), virtual unknowns that became big stars. Matt Hammil had 1 professional fight before TUF and had a very good UFC career. More times than not the fighters flame out, but the UFC has been very good about using TUF to find unknowns and make them stars.
Click to expand...
Well, yes.
I'm talking about what TUF has morphed into.
I would actually exempt the first 5-6 seasons

 

[Nastycrow]

Originally posted by: osubuckeye4
Date: March 19, 2013 at 09:19 AM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/if-you-were-a-fighter-would-you-try-out-for-tuf.52994/

Moranis said:
REPORTED PAY IS NOT ACTUAL PAY. Why do people still not understand this?
Click to expand...
While that is definitely true for the PPV headliners (of course Anderson Silva and Randy aren't actually getting $250,000 to headline PPV's, they are getting a cut as well), that's rarely the case with guys who are on undercards. Why do people not understand THAT?
What incentive do Dana or the rest of the UFC have to give a guy who made $8,000/8,000 on FUEL TV a big bump in pay? Especailly when they have that guy locked up for multiple future fights. They are businessmen, not idiots.
But okay then, so, all these guys who Nelson is fighting who have less UFC experience but who are making more "reported" pay, are also making more "unreported" pay as well. So your point is moot.
No one makes what the UFC reports? Okay, if that logic is true... then a guy who got a reported pay of $80,000... actually made a lot more. Just like a guy who got a reported pay of $8,000 made a lot more than that.
Back to Nelson, Werdum made $100,000 to fight Nelson who made a reported $20,000.
Are you suggesting that Dana went ahead and cut Roy a check for 4-5x what his reported pay was, when he had absolutely no obligation to do so?
If you believe that... I got some beachfront proper on the North Pole that I'd like to interest you in.
My point isn't that someone like Nelson is going broke. My point is that he could have made a lot MORE money in his first 7 UFC fights if he hadn't won TUF.
Look at the TUF 10 finale.
Kimbo Slice (who lost in the first round that season), made $25,000.
Roy Nelson got $16,000 (and that includes an $8,000 win bonus)
http://www.mmajunkie.com/news/2009/...finale-fighters-salaries-kimbo-slice-gets-25k
I'll wrap this up by saying that I'm not saying that the UFC rips off TUF champs. If anything, a lot of guys who won TUF ended up staying in the UFC a lot longer than they ever should have, so it gave them more job security.
I'm just saying that if a guy who is 18-22 thinks he has a legitimate shot to be a future UFC champ, it's probably in his best interest not to go to TUF and be locked up for 9 fights with the UFC on their terms with no real bargining power on your end.
Guys who want to go to TUF should be raw prospects who want the training, and aging veterans who are looking for a chance to just get a few paychecks in the UFC.
Phenom young prospects should not go the TUF route.

 

[Nastycrow]

Originally posted by: rhino78
Date: March 19, 2013 at 09:45 AM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/if-you-were-a-fighter-would-you-try-out-for-tuf.52994/

It's a double edge sword IMO.
You can't get this kind of exposure for free. If you can win the show, or win some fights, then you get an instant fan base and bigger sponsors. With that comes more reponsibitly than jsut fighting. Apperances, autograhs signings, etc. You also get a smaller contract.
If you are destroying guys on the lower level orgs, then the UFC will sign you and you wil lget bigger payays faster like a Rory McDonald.
Wasn't there a fighter who was gonn be on TUF, passed and signed a year later for bigh bucks?