Is Greg Jackson hurting mma and his fighters reputations?
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Re: Is Greg Jackson hurting mma and his fighters reputations
MMAFTM13 said:
f**king hell 19 posts in 10 minutes I've done well even know Im aware all isn't really what I believe,and a thread that isn't about Fedor Nick Diaz or Ando and Sonnen..MAGIC
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well when people post crazy stuff and a few get into arguments then the post count goes up.
*edit*......and where did you learn how to measure time?
Re: Is Greg Jackson hurting mma and his fighters reputations
mabrown45 said:
MMAFTM13 said:
f**king hell 19 posts in 10 minutes I've done well even know Im aware all isn't really what I believe,and a thread that isn't about Fedor Nick Diaz or Ando and Sonnen..MAGIC
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well when people post crazy stuff and a few get into arguments then the post count goes up.
*edit*......and where did you learn how to measure time?
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Youre right I'm gonna ignore them now..Funny if I ended up being right though
Re: Is Greg Jackson hurting mma and his fighters reputations
phoenix-mma said:
MMAFTM13 said:
phoenix-mma said:
" so called killers and warriors in the their last 3 fights have played safe in their approach..Jon Jones..Carlos Condit ..Clay Guida.."
You are aware that 2 of the 3 WON, right?
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Er yeah..Looked f**king good like didn't they?
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And Wanderlei really is an axe murderer. He killed a man. I'm pretty sure he's wanted for murder.
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I've been meaning to talk to Wanderlei about this. See if he has any family nearby. He should lay low for a while.
I'm not surprised someone made a thread like this. This is fighting and an element of that is that there is a part of most fans who just want to see someone get beat down. No reason to deny it and when it doesn't happen and you see something like last night or condit with a gameplan there is a bit of disappointment. It seems to me though to many people are using that disappointment as some sort of justification for suggesting a fighter isn't as good as they thought(it is usually from people who were not fans of that fighter to begin with).
It is sort of the same thing as disliking teams who run the football ball non-stop, causing games to be very slow and rather boring vs. a team who passes the ball constantly.
The packers are a way more exciting team to watch than the 49ers for instance - yet in the end the 49ers advanced further in the playoffs.
Re: Is Greg Jackson hurting mma and his fighters reputations
PsychoIcon said:
I was waiting for this thread.
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Yep.
Not sure how the OP can lump Jones in to the discussion. (Jones the Lebron James of MMA I guess everything he does is wrong.)
But no, Jackson is not hurting his fighters. His camp has almost single handly changed how fights are prepared for. It might be frustrating to watch sometimes, but often that is the opponents fault for not being able to do anything against the other fighter.
It takes two fighters to make a great fight, and a bad one.
Plenty of great boxers and kick boxers put that defensive tactic in their arsenal and it is your opponents job to deal with it, not yours to change it just because your opponent is getting frustrated.
In the Maynard fight, Maynard is a top caliber wrestler in MMA, how about more attempts to take the fight where Guida can not get away. ---Instead of pulling the Nick Diaz and mean mugging allowing your opponent to land unchallenged shots. Looking pissed off and dropping your hands is not effective offense, technical footwork and forcing the fight at your pace IS effective defense.
And BTW, people have been criticizing Guida's abilities and lack of finishing almost his entire career. He pushes the pace, but hardly pushes his opponents. Shoulder strikes is about his biggest offense. So the statement about him being a "killer warrior" is just absurd.
Re: Is Greg Jackson hurting mma and his fighters reputations
I don't see how people can even pretend to assume that this thread is a troll attempt. It's a valid question. He's changing fighters styles to a style that is less fan friendly, and quite honestly if the rules were changed to what they should be, a style that is much less efficient. He is trying to help fighters win fights using the rules they are given, so you can't give him to much grief, but it in all honestly is probably hurting the views of MMA and of his fighters.
After seeing Condits gameplan he went from an all out fan favorite that everyone wanted to watch fight, to a fighter that people aren't even sure if they want to see fight anymore. His fight against GSP will make or break him honestly. If he fights against GSP with the timid "defensive" style, then I bet he drops down to Jon Fitch status.
Guys like Guida that already have boring styles won't be hurt by training with Jackson, but guys like GSP and Condit definitely will. I bet people don't even remember how exciting GSP used to be to watch. People always seem to forget that your pay is directly affected by your popularity. You don't get paid for being a good fighter. You get paid for being a fighter that people want to watch, because at the end of the day, MMA is a spectator sport, and as such requires spectators.
Re: Is Greg Jackson hurting mma and his fighters reputations
RearNakedSlam said:
I don't see how people can even pretend to assume that this thread is a troll attempt. It's a valid question. He's changing fighters styles to a style that is less fan friendly, and quite honestly if the rules were changed to what they should be, a style that is much less efficient. He is trying to help fighters win fights using the rules they are given, so you can't give him to much grief, but it in all honestly is probably hurting the views of MMA and of his fighters.
After seeing Condits gameplan he went from an all out fan favorite that everyone wanted to watch fight, to a fighter that people aren't even sure if they want to see fight anymore. His fight against GSP will make or break him honestly. If he fights against GSP with the timid "defensive" style, then I bet he drops down to Jon Fitch status.
Guys like Guida that already have boring styles won't be hurt by training with Jackson, but guys like GSP and Condit definitely will. I bet people don't even remember how exciting GSP used to be to watch. People always seem to forget that your pay is directly affected by your popularity. You don't get paid for being a good fighter. You get paid for being a fighter that people want to watch, because at the end of the day, MMA is a spectator sport, and as such requires spectators.
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The majority of his fighters(Watson, Carwin, Condit, Stann, Cerrone, Sanchez, Brandao, Jones etc) are still exciting though. Carlos has one fight where he decides to fight smart because a title shot is on the line and the world goes crazy. Carlos has a history of nothing but exciting fights and Jackson was apart of many of those fights-but people only recognize the boring fights which I get to a point, but it's also blown out of proportion.
As for GSP, yes, he was more exciting, but when you are making 3-5 mil per fight, I'd imagine your style will change to insure you stay at the top. GSP has actually talked about fighting smart and all that already. The dude practically admits that he's afraid to lose. I don't think Jackson completely changed him to be honest. It's not like Jackson is solely responsible for GSP either. He has a much smaller role with the guy now. Works the game plan, but Firas is the head trainer and works with Jackson on the game plans as well.
Re: Is Greg Jackson hurting mma and his fighters reputations
RearNakedSlam said:
You pretty much parroted everything I said. Not sure if that was intentional or not, but you are correct. :lol:
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Haha. I meant to reply to you(on the GSP part) and then I was going to imbed another name for the rest. Kinda screwed that one up! :lol:
Re: Is Greg Jackson hurting mma and his fighters reputations
RearNakedSlam said:
I don't see how people can even pretend to assume that this thread is a troll attempt. It's a valid question. He's changing fighters styles to a style that is less fan friendly, and quite honestly if the rules were changed to what they should be, a style that is much less efficient. He is trying to help fighters win fights using the rules they are given, so you can't give him to much grief, but it in all honestly is probably hurting the views of MMA and of his fighters.
After seeing Condits gameplan he went from an all out fan favorite that everyone wanted to watch fight, to a fighter that people aren't even sure if they want to see fight anymore. His fight against GSP will make or break him honestly. If he fights against GSP with the timid "defensive" style, then I bet he drops down to Jon Fitch status.
Guys like Guida that already have boring styles won't be hurt by training with Jackson, but guys like GSP and Condit definitely will. I bet people don't even remember how exciting GSP used to be to watch. People always seem to forget that your pay is directly affected by your popularity. You don't get paid for being a good fighter. You get paid for being a fighter that people want to watch, because at the end of the day, MMA is a spectator sport, and as such requires spectators.
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+1
Jackson is definitely hurting some of his fighters reputations, I used to love watching Condit fight but seeing him employ that hit and run strategy against Diaz regardless of how successful it was made me doubt him as the true fighter I thought he was.
Condit usually comes in to take his opponents out and who knows maybe he would have finished Diaz had he employed his usual style/gameplan but Jackson told him to go and point fight Diaz for 5 rounds and he obviously obliged and even though he clearly won he still lost some respect in the process and im sure a few fans also to go along with that respect, I really hope Carlos comes back against GSP looking like his old self.
Guida on the other hand is different he is not a finisher like Carlos but still has some fans due to his crazy style and willingness to get into wars well the old Guida anyways, I think with his recent performances he has definitely lost a lot of his fan base and obviously that is not good for any fighter trying to make his way to the top.
All in all i personally think Jackson is ruining MMA with these gameplans, not to the point where it will destroy it of course but definitely giving MMA a bad name. Greg needs to realise that MMA and the UFC in particular is also about entertainment not only about winning.
Re: Is Greg Jackson hurting mma and his fighters reputations
MMAFTM13 said:
Of course I agree with you 2 guys,but where the f**k were yous at earlier on when I was getting mauled off every c**t :lol: :lol:
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:lol:
You did take quite a mauling, Ill try be on time for the next one
Re: Is Greg Jackson hurting mma and his fighters reputations
holmezy said:
MMAFTM13 said:
Of course I agree with you 2 guys,but where the f**k were yous at earlier on when I was getting mauled off every c**t :lol: :lol:
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:lol:
You did take quite a mauling, Ill try be on time for the next one
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:lol: ..I can handle one or two but loads of them at the same time,I promised myself I'm not gonna cry this time
Re: Is Greg Jackson hurting mma and his fighters reputations
I think the real problem is in the rules, judging, and reffing. I'm only talking about the guida and Diaz/ Condit fight. The judges should have given warnings to both guida and Condit and they should have been penalized multiple points. I love both Condit and guida but their last two perfomances were ridiculous. People want to say it was great game planning. They are right if the great game planning was to avoid fighting and hope the judges say you won the fight. Condit got lucky and guida should not be surprised.
Re: Is Greg Jackson hurting mma and his fighters reputations
MMAJohn13 said:
I think the real problem is in the rules, judging, and reffing. I'm only talking about the guida and Diaz/ Condit fight. The judges should have given warnings to both guida and Condit and they should have been penalized multiple points. I love both Condit and guida but their last two perfomances were ridiculous. People want to say it was great game planning. They are right if the great game planning was to avoid fighting and hope the judges say you won the fight. Condit got lucky and guida should not be surprised.
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Guida definitely deserved a warning but imo Condit did not, only reason being is because even though Carlos was employing the hit and run tactics he has the superior striking to actually pull it off on the run and Guida does not. Condit was clearly landing more than Diaz but the same cant be said for Guida and even though I hated Condit employing such a gameplan he did pull it off, Guida was visibly running and avoiding the fight which is why the ref warned him as it was blatantly obvious what he was doing.
My main issue with Condit using such tactics is because he really doesnt need to use such a gameplan in order to win, he has awesome striking and is very well rounded and I think he could have handled Diaz even coming forward.
Re: Is Greg Jackson hurting mma and his fighters reputations
holmezy said:
MMAJohn13 said:
I think the real problem is in the rules, judging, and reffing. I'm only talking about the guida and Diaz/ Condit fight. The judges should have given warnings to both guida and Condit and they should have been penalized multiple points. I love both Condit and guida but their last two perfomances were ridiculous. People want to say it was great game planning. They are right if the great game planning was to avoid fighting and hope the judges say you won the fight. Condit got lucky and guida should not be surprised.
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Guida definitely deserved a warning but imo Condit did not, only reason being is because even though Carlos was employing the hit and run tactics he has the superior striking to actually pull it off on the run and Guida does not. Condit was clearly landing more than Diaz but the same cant be said for Guida and even though I hated Condit employing such a gameplan he did pull it off, Guida was visibly running and avoiding the fight which is why the ref warned him as it was blatantly obvious what he was doing.
My main issue with Condit using such tactics is because he really doesnt need to use such a gameplan in order to win, he has awesome striking and is very well rounded and I think he could have handled Diaz even coming forward.
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I said something similar in another thread. Condit pulled it off because he already had great striking. Guida is currently incapable of landing a sufficient amount of strikes while being "defensive". I hate the strategy from Condit still though, but it's "acceptable" because he was still capable of striking
Re: Is Greg Jackson hurting mma and his fighters reputations
Like Dana said at the presser this was worse than Kaleb Starnes. Guida and Jackson need to watch this and see if they can even convince themselves that he was sticking and moving. Ain't no way you can call that fighting, but that Fckers got wheels, IN REVERSE, I'll give him that. Gotta love how Gray gives him the finger at the end of that lap tho. :lol:
Re: Is Greg Jackson hurting mma and his fighters reputations
GOODNIGHTIRENE said:
this was a main event on FX. if you dont think that hurt both MMA and Guidas reputation, pass me whatever your smoking.
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Hurt the sport of mma? Pshhhhh. Hurt Guidas rep? Pssshhh.
So you think a main event that didn't live up to the "hype" hurts the whole sport? If that's the case, then it went downhill after Cain/JDS.
The problem is people put to much stake in a fight being FOTN/FOTY. Occasionally, a fight will stand up to the billing (Bendo/Guida for example). But this in NO WAY hurts the sport anymore than the laundry list of otherwise healthy 20 & 30 somethings who feel the need to compensate fir theit "perceived" low levels of testosterone hurt the sport. It was one fight.
As for Guida, i don't see how anyone other than a fickle fan would base his body of work on 1 bad showing. It's funny, Fedor and Shogun have had multiple sh*tty performances and people are quick to defend and make excuses. Condit & Guida have 1 fight that doesn't live up to a fans exoectations and its character assassination.
And no smoking here, weed is for f*gs.