Who are fighters that you think won't or have been beat by simply taken them down and laying on them to win a decision? And mean mainly non-wrestling based fighters mainly, or guys who prefer to stand up.
Chuck Liddell- is a guy that comes to mind, he used his wrestling as a defense and always got back up immediately after a takedown. Most of his losses were from being knocked out.
Anderson Silva- He has a very aggressive guard and he doesn't let the threat of a takedown hinder what he throws on the feet. I know Chael Sonnen was a close call, even though Chael was doing far more then laying on him.
Charles Olvieria- He's got such a dangerous guard most wrestlers are afraid to take him down, which became apparent in the Efrain Escudero fight. His stand up is coming along which makes him a huge threat to guys who rely on their wrestling.
you would probably have to focus mainly on the 185 and 205 lb divisions to find them. LW and WW is not safe. HW has the potential to not be safe. MW is close, LHW is probably the safeest division from that. IDK im drunk.
Originally posted by: ResoluteProtector Date: October 13, 2010 at 02:24 AM Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/lay-and-pray-proof-fighters.31257/
those names are good in defending the TD
i dont like the lay and pray move but definity is something that figthers needs to defend it and attack, until they dont learn to do it, more figthers will continue to use in order to get more wins and it will be a good strategy for them since it asure the win mostly on the position and judges values alot the lay and pray move
is like when BJJ started, nobody understood that and start to learn about it and defending and the gracie family started to lost matches because of it, well i guess is happening the same with the wrestling and the lay and pray, we seen that the best figthers that represent this move are winning alot we got conrad on one win to become the bellator tournament winner, madsen winning alll his ufc fights, fitch becoming the second best ww and having an impresive record, maynard getting a title shot, so i guess right now in MMA camps they need to start focus more on defending the TD and had some defends for the lay and pray because until figthers dont attack that move other figthers will use it since it is the safe and best way to get the win.
where does shogun stand in all of this? he has been taken down and hes not the most difficult guy to take down. however, i personally havent seen a fight where a guy lnps on him. because he has scary good leg locks. and his defense is top notch. i get the feeling that when machida countered his takedowns and dropped him, shogun was happy to go down because he feels comfortable off his back
EGROJ said:
where does shogun stand in all of this? he has been taken down and hes not the most difficult guy to take down. however, i personally havent seen a fight where a guy lnps on him. because he has scary good leg locks. and his defense is top notch. i get the feeling that when machida countered his takedowns and dropped him, shogun was happy to go down because he feels comfortable off his back
Click to expand...
Shogun is the anti- lay and pray.
I've seen it happen to most other fighters, Silva included. But Shogun is the best in the world at getting off his back to his feet to inflict damage.
abc0331 said:
EGROJ said:
where does shogun stand in all of this? he has been taken down and hes not the most difficult guy to take down. however, i personally havent seen a fight where a guy lnps on him. because he has scary good leg locks. and his defense is top notch. i get the feeling that when machida countered his takedowns and dropped him, shogun was happy to go down because he feels comfortable off his back
Click to expand...
Shogun is the anti- lay and pray.
I've seen it happen to most other fighters, Silva included. But Shogun is the best in the world at getting off his back to his feet to inflict damage.
Click to expand...
yeah put that guy on his back.. he doesnt give a f---! lol
It will be interesting to see if anyone can double leg Brock Lesnar. That would be pretty cool if that happened. It would be even cooler if Brock immediately followed it with an armbar.
ResoluteProtector said:
Junior Dos Santos
Click to expand...
Yet to be proven. I need to see him against Lesnar or Cain (neither of whom I consider LnPers) before I consider him 'LnP proof'.
I'd say GSP is LnP proof. He has some of the best TDD going and when he does end up on his back quickly makes his way up. Look at his fight vs Fitch, who has a top notch top control game, and GSP escaped rather quickly and revered the position.
The least LnP-able guy IMO is Shogun. He'll sub, sweep, switch or omaplata his way out of it almost every time.
EGROJ said:
abc0331 said:
EGROJ said:
where does shogun stand in all of this? he has been taken down and hes not the most difficult guy to take down. however, i personally havent seen a fight where a guy lnps on him. because he has scary good leg locks. and his defense is top notch. i get the feeling that when machida countered his takedowns and dropped him, shogun was happy to go down because he feels comfortable off his back
Click to expand...
Shogun is the anti- lay and pray.
I've seen it happen to most other fighters, Silva included. But Shogun is the best in the world at getting off his back to his feet to inflict damage.
Click to expand...
yeah put that guy on his back.. he doesnt give a f**k! lol
Click to expand...
hahahaa
Originally posted by: ResoluteProtector Date: October 15, 2010 at 08:33 PM Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/lay-and-pray-proof-fighters.31257/
Gnarcore said:
ResoluteProtector said:
Junior Dos Santos
Click to expand...
Yet to be proven. I need to see him against Lesnar or Cain (neither of whom I consider LnPers) before I consider him 'LnP proof'.
I'd say GSP is LnP proof. He has some of the best TDD going and when he does end up on his back quickly makes his way up. Look at his fight vs Fitch, who has a top notch top control game, and GSP escaped rather quickly and revered the position.
The least LnP-able guy IMO is Shogun. He'll sub, sweep, switch or omaplata his way out of it almost every time.
Click to expand...
The guy has spent mabye 30 seconds on the ground in his UFC career. And Even less on his back. If you cannot get someone down, you cannot lay on them. Dos Santos is as good as it gets right now.
EGROJ said:
where does shogun stand in all of this? he has been taken down and hes not the most difficult guy to take down. however, i personally havent seen a fight where a guy lnps on him. because he has scary good leg locks. and his defense is top notch. i get the feeling that when machida countered his takedowns and dropped him, shogun was happy to go down because he feels comfortable off his back
Click to expand...
Great call on Shogun. This spells disaster for Rashad.
ResoluteProtector said:
Gnarcore said:
ResoluteProtector said:
Junior Dos Santos
Click to expand...
Yet to be proven. I need to see him against Lesnar or Cain (neither of whom I consider LnPers) before I consider him 'LnP proof'.
I'd say GSP is LnP proof. He has some of the best TDD going and when he does end up on his back quickly makes his way up. Look at his fight vs Fitch, who has a top notch top control game, and GSP escaped rather quickly and revered the position.
The least LnP-able guy IMO is Shogun. He'll sub, sweep, switch or omaplata his way out of it almost every time.
Click to expand...
The guy has spent mabye 30 seconds on the ground in his UFC career. And Even less on his back. If you cannot get someone down, you cannot lay on them. Dos Santos is as good as it gets right now.
Click to expand...
Who has he fought with top notch wrestling? No one. Hell he has barely had to even defend a take down. JDS and Cain have both had favorable match making (JDS has had no wrestlers and Cain has faced bad grapplers *other than Nog) to build them up and until I see JDS fight a top notch wrestler I am not sold on him being LnP proof. From what I have seen during the rare times he has defended take downs I think he is very tough to take down and could prove to be very to tough to LnP but I am not sold just yet.
Gnarcore said:
Who has he fought with top notch wrestling? No one. Hell he has barely had to even defend a take down. JDS and Cain have both had favorable match making (JDS has had no wrestlers and Cain has faced bad grapplers) to build them up and until I see JDS fight a top notch wrestler I am not sold on him being LnP proof. From what I have seen during the rare times he has defended take downs I think he is very tough to take down and could prove to be very to tough to LnP but I am not sold just yet.
Click to expand...
I agree with JDS. The only guy who I've really seen try and take him down is GG. When he's up against Lesnar or Carwin that will be a whole different story. He's my pick to upset Lesnar but until I see him being able to keep the fight standing against Lesnar I wouldn't put him up there with Shogun or Chuck on this list.
gsp is lay n pray proof because he's never on the bottom, similarly to chuck liddell.
fedor. never seen a fight of his in my life where he wasn't either on top the whole time, standing, or working to sweep or submit from the bottom.
AS, maia, bj penn, shinya aoki, guys with very technical, and active guards.
keystone said:
you would probably have to focus mainly on the 185 and 205 lb divisions to find them. LW and WW is not safe. HW has the potential to not be safe. MW is close, LHW is probably the safeest division from that. IDK im drunk.
Click to expand...
Are you Keith Stone?
