Liberal/NDP Coalition

[Nastycrow]

Originally posted by: Andre3000
Date: December 03, 2008 at 12:03 AM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/liberal-ndp-coalition.7938/

So we have talked American politics to death over the past few months. The Canadians on the board showed that we like to keep apprised of what is going on with our neighbours to the south.
I'm really interested to hear what the Americans think about what's going on in Canada's Parliament right now. In particular, do you agree that the move being made by the Libs/NDP/Bloc is, as the Tories have termed it, "undemocratic?" Discuss.
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha, just kidding. You've probably never even heard of our Prime Minister.

 

[Nastycrow]

Originally posted by: ArcArsenal
Date: December 03, 2008 at 02:40 AM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/liberal-ndp-coalition.7938/

Yeah, not a chance any of them know what you're talking about.
It's fantastic though. I don't understand the torries crying about it being undemocratic. It's a bunch of people banding together in order to be heard. It's the very definition of democratic. That's conservatives for you though, just because it doesn't make any sense, doesn't mean they won't accuse people of it.

 

[Nastycrow]

Originally posted by: EnderWiggin
Date: December 03, 2008 at 10:45 AM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/liberal-ndp-coalition.7938/

WTF is going on up there?!! Parliament is trying to oust the prime minister? The prime minister is trying to dissolve parliament to protect himself?
Seriously, is this basically the same thing as if the democrats had tried to cut Bush's term short when they took the majority in congress?
How can they even try this? It looks like they don't even have much of a majority. Far less than two thirds. A simple majority is enough to oust your head of state?
And they did actually teach us in highschool about Quebec's speratist leanings. What's up with that?

 

[Nastycrow]

Originally posted by: Brick
Date: December 03, 2008 at 10:51 AM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/liberal-ndp-coalition.7938/

I read Jak's description of the happenings in the "Local News" thread. Sounds like something I recently read in an article about Thailand or Cambodia or somewhere.
OTTAWA (AFP) — Opposition parties announced a deal to soon dethrone Canada's ruling Conservatives and bring in a leftist coalition headed by Liberal leader Stephane Dion.
"We are ready to form a new government," Dion told a press conference. "This will be a Liberal-led government in collaboration with the New Democratic Party and with the support of the (separatist) Bloc Quebecois."
The near unprecedented move follows the government's release on Thursday of proposed fiscal measures that opposition parties angrily denounced as failing to bolster Canada's sagging economy.
The government's plan also included a cut to subsidies for political parties that would have bankrupted at least one of the three opposition parties and a temporary public sector strike ban to 2011.
The basket of measures was widely criticized for provoking leftist opposition parties and for leading to what could become a constitutional crisis if the Conservatives and the coalition tussle for control.
Conservative Prime Minister Stephen Harper said earlier Dion was "about to play the biggest political game in Canadian history."
This scenario has only occurred once in Canada before, during the First World War in 1917.
Harper characterized the power grab as "undemocratic" and pointed out it required Dion to "do a deal with the separatists in order to get the power the voters denied him at the ballot box."

 

[Nastycrow]

Originally posted by: Andre3000
Date: December 03, 2008 at 10:53 AM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/liberal-ndp-coalition.7938/

EnderWiggin said:
WTF is going on up there?!! Parliament is trying to oust the prime minister? The prime minister is trying to dissolve parliament to protect himself?
Seriously, is this basically the same thing as if the democrats had tried to cut Bush's term short when they took the majority in congress?
How can they even try this? It looks like they don't even have much of a majority. Far less than two thirds. A simple majority is enough to oust your head of state?
And they did actually teach us in highschool about Quebec's speratist leanings. What's up with that?
Click to expand...
I don't think there's any way to oust the president other than impeachment, so I don't think the Dems could have done anything (other than that) when they got the majority in Congress.
Our system is not winner-take-all like yours... it's all about how many seats you have in Parliament (each riding, kind of like a congressional district, is represented by one seat). Our current leadership party, the Conservatives, do not have a majority of the seats. If you combine the seats of the other parties, they have more than the Conservatives... thus the coalition they are talking about.
The latest is that the Liberals (who have the second most seats) may be willing to discuss other options than defeating the government and replacing it with a coalition.
If the coalition takes over, expect military raids across your border to commence almost immediately. Seriously.

 

[Nastycrow]

Originally posted by: sallgeud
Date: December 03, 2008 at 10:57 AM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/liberal-ndp-coalition.7938/

EnderWiggin said:
Seriously, is this basically the same thing as if the democrats had tried to cut Bush's term short when they took the majority in congress?
Click to expand...
The PM of Canada is not elected by the people... so it's not really comparable. It's not like Harper was voted in by the citizens. Just like almost all PM's... he's the leader of the party that was able to get the most votes in the HoC. It's a bit more like being the Speaker of the House in US Congress.

 

[Nastycrow]

Originally posted by: Andre3000
Date: December 03, 2008 at 11:03 AM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/liberal-ndp-coalition.7938/

sallgeud said:
EnderWiggin said:
Seriously, is this basically the same thing as if the democrats had tried to cut Bush's term short when they took the majority in congress?
Click to expand...
he's the leader of the party that was able to get the most votes in the HoC. .
Click to expand...
Replace "votes" with "seats" and you are correct.

 

[Nastycrow]

Originally posted by: EnderWiggin
Date: December 03, 2008 at 11:32 AM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/liberal-ndp-coalition.7938/

fwiw, I do realize that Congress can't simply vote out the Pres. which is why I didn't understand how this could be happening up there. I didn't know how the PM got his position.
Is it legal for Parliament to choose a new PM whenever it wants to? Other than the timing, I don't see why there would be any complaint about 3 parties that together make a majority agreeing on one candidate.
As for the pending invasion, everybody loves Obama, nobody will want to attack us now!

 

[Nastycrow]

Originally posted by: Andre3000
Date: December 03, 2008 at 11:44 AM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/liberal-ndp-coalition.7938/

EnderWiggin said:
fwiw, I do realize that Congress can't simply vote out the Pres. which is why I didn't understand how this could be happening up there. I didn't know how the PM got his position.
Is it legal for Parliament to choose a new PM whenever it wants to? Other than the timing, I don't see why there would be any complaint about 3 parties that together make a majority agreeing on one candidate.
As for the pending invasion, everybody loves Obama, nobody will want to attack us now!
Click to expand...
As noted aboive, the PM is the leader of the whatever party holds the most seats in Parliament. If one party has a majority of the seats, there is nothing the other parties can do to defeat the government.
However, given that the three minority parties have more total seats than the PM's party, they can band together to defeat the government in a non-confidence vote and replace it with a coalition. As the article Brick quoted says, this apparently hasn't happened since WWI.

 

[Nastycrow]

Originally posted by: Jak
Date: December 03, 2008 at 12:06 PM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/liberal-ndp-coalition.7938/

I think the best thing to do would be to replace Stephen Harper and Jim Flahrety(sp?)... i think it's crap that Stephon Dion came a resounding last in the election and yet he'll end up as the PM? i don't buy the whole Bloc Quebcois as being a threat, they've been in parliament for years, and every government has somehow needed their support since they were founded.
I don't like that the peoples opinion doesn't really matter, that seems slightly odd. and the perspective of the rest of the world can't be very good right now, because rather than focusing on the economic problems they're playing around like little kids. Especially if this goes through, then the conservatives are just going to be stubborn and try to block everything...
I don't support any stimulus packages that give free money to the Automobile or Forrest Sectors... if workers can't see the impending obvious decline in their industry i don't want to have to pay for it. i don't care that some late 20's person has a family and just bought an expensive new truck, flat screen TV and a house they couldn't afford because they put their head in the sand about what was going on in their own industry. Both those industries will decline regardless of stimulus packages because that's just the way things are going, throwing cash at it really won't help.
And thirdly, i wish Canada had a "Daily Show" because without humor, Canadian politics aren't that funny.... :|
WAR FISCAL PRUDENCE!

 

[Nastycrow]

Originally posted by: Andre3000
Date: December 03, 2008 at 03:27 PM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/liberal-ndp-coalition.7938/

So they are airing a taped national address from Harper tonight at 7 p.m. TAPED. He can't even address the country live? WEAK.

 

[Nastycrow]

Originally posted by: squib
Date: December 03, 2008 at 03:28 PM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/liberal-ndp-coalition.7938/

Jak said:
I think the best thing to do would be to replace Stephen Harper and Jim Flahrety(sp?)... i think it's crap that Stephon Dion came a resounding last in the election and yet he'll end up as the PM? i don't buy the whole Bloc Quebcois as being a threat, they've been in parliament for years, and every government has somehow needed their support since they were founded.
Click to expand...
Separation is a dormant issue for the moment. It's similar to the Scottish, or the Basque, and likely someone will make noise further down the road. For now, everyone's happy working together. At least at this end of the country.
Jak said:
And thirdly, i wish Canada had a "Daily Show" because without humor, Canadian politics aren't that funny.... :|
Click to expand...
We do ~ he's called Rick Mercer. Canadian politics are actually pretty hilarious, provided you don't read the transcripts. I swear, Parliament is like a high school. Someone makes a sideways comment about one of the MPs ex~girlfriends, who's also an MP (or was). The remark is caught on tape, but the voice is indistinct. There was bickering back and forth trying to get whoever said it to confess. Really juvenile.
The solution is clear. Have a reality TV show, "Canadian Parliamentarians", where you get debaters and public speakers from schools all across Canada, to sit in mock Parliament and make a good show of it. You have to know your facts, your constituency and your audience. CPAC's ratings would skyrocket. The winner gets a seat in parliament and ousts whoever's in there currently.
I swear your voter turnout would quadruple, and you could charge $1 a vote with a 900 number.

 

[Nastycrow]

Originally posted by: Jak
Date: December 04, 2008 at 12:20 PM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/liberal-ndp-coalition.7938/

I got a question for Canadians. since they just shut down parliament until January, does that mean nobody is trying to fix the economy when it's in a pretty bad state? What happens if something major happens during that time... like let's say the Automakers shut down? and does this change anything what-so-ever with the situation?
squib said:
At least at this end of the country
Click to expand...
I know what your saying, one of my ex's was from Montreal and her parents voted on the '95 referendum and were still bitter, and i wasn't allowed to speak english in their house!

 

[Nastycrow]

Originally posted by: squib
Date: December 04, 2008 at 02:49 PM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/liberal-ndp-coalition.7938/

Jak said:
I got a question for Canadians. since they just shut down parliament until January, does that mean nobody is trying to fix the economy when it's in a pretty bad state? What happens if something major happens during that time... like let's say the Automakers shut down? and does this change anything what-so-ever with the situation?
Click to expand...
parliament is shut down until Jan 16 (6 weeks anyway), when the Conservatives will present their budget. Parliament is the show for the Canadian people, and it really isn't the place where anything gets done anyway, that's always groups of people getting together in chambers to sort out the details.
If the s--- were to hit the fan during this 6 weeks, it would be the government's responsibility to respond, but I'm sure the opposition would have its say, whether it's in parliament or not.
Pretty sketchy use of the political system on Harper's part, but that's come to be his signature.

 

[Nastycrow]

Originally posted by: Jak
Date: December 04, 2008 at 03:46 PM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/liberal-ndp-coalition.7938/

Thanks Squib, it still doesn't make sense that at a time when our government says our economy is f*cked that the government decides to take an early vacation. We're a first world country and are leaders and politics are just an reprehensible.
I don't see why the best option would not be to keep the Conservatives in power but replace Harper. the coalition couldn't say sh*t because the Conservatives would having been adhereing to the loss of confidence for Harper, and they would have to at least see what moves a new leader would do. And if they got rid of Harper i think the Conservatives would get stronger in the eyes of the voters as well.
It seems odd we're watching a guy trying not to lose his job, rather than a government try to fix anything.

 

[Nastycrow]

Originally posted by: squib
Date: December 04, 2008 at 07:53 PM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/liberal-ndp-coalition.7938/

Harper's always been about tactics over good governance.
The questions for Michele Jean are piling up. As GG, she wasn't supposed to let him dissolve parliament for the fall election, or during the current shenanigans, because they're illegal.
Yes, well, so much for the law (one of which Harper enacted, before he was the first to break it).
Canada's political people seem to be tired of going through the motions of putting on a good face for the public, and they're letting us see how truly contemptuous of all the things that make a parliamentary system work. Parliament sounds like a high school cafeteria more than the room where the ultimate in civilized conversation takes place.
I'm telling you, "Canada's Next Parliamentarian" is the reality show of the future. the winner of the show gets to oust a sitting MP and take their place.