Lucky Punches
- Thread starter Nastycrow
- Start date
I think there are such thing as lucky punches, but I also think that term is overused.
The Sell/Smith punch for example, was a low percentage punch absolutely, but even though 9 times out of 10 that punch would have missed or not been a straight KO, in the end the punch did what it was intended to do so I wouldn't call it "lucky."
However, a counterpoint was the Serra/GSP punch. That was a high percentage punch, in that he's gonna throw that hook and he's gonna connect more often than not, however, the damage came from GSP moving into it and changing the area of impact from his cheek/jaw to his temple. 9/10 that punch lands, but since Serra didn't intend for that punch to work out the way it did, I'd call it a lucky punch.
Does that all make sense?
JonnyF said:
To me Smith/Sell is the perfect example of a lucky punch. Smith was done, and he put everything into that one last punch. If he doesn't throw that punch or it misses it would've been over for him.
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That wasn't a lucky punch, sell just wasn't protecting his chin very good when he was charging smith.
lucky punch as in, youve been knocked down about 3 times, resting cage, can probably barely see one more punch and youll probably die,
throw a combination and get a ko?
unless the guys eyes are closed, i dont think its luck, more like balls . . BUT, the chances of that happening again?
very very slim imo
Of course there is. If you believe in luck at all, it applies to everything.
Just because you intend to land doesn't mean luck can't play a part.
It's a romantic notion to think everything that happens is planned and well placed and the results you see are all turning out as intended, but that's just not reality.
faberschin said:
JonnyF said:
To me Smith/Sell is the perfect example of a lucky punch. Smith was done, and he put everything into that one last punch. If he doesn't throw that punch or it misses it would've been over for him.
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That wasn't a lucky punch, sell just wasn't protecting his chin very good when he was charging smith.
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thats what ''lucky punch'' actually means,(not actually luck but carelessness) punches are punches they are meant to put you down but when the other fighter lets their guard down, they get caught, so in the end its the koed fighters mistake for getting caught up in the moment, not being careful, misjudging the other fighters condition whatever other situation.
Think about it, if barry was not so caught up in trying to finish the fight,(he would have seen that uppercut, but no, he went forward and probably didnt expect kongo to fight back effectively at that point, would you?) for the rest of the match he could have been outboxing and possibly knockout kongo.
Its barrys fault completely for being careless, kongo would be too drained to fight for another 2 rounds. Barry could have finished that fight however he wanted(if kongo DIDNT recover).
Props to kongo for not giving up, but i was cheering for barry.
Messier said:
I think evans KO of liddell was lucky - it was obviously a combo he threw but he was loosing that fight
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Evans was backed up to The fence, no way that was luck, that was just Evans counter punching.
ArcArsenal said:
However, a counterpoint was the Serra/GSP punch. That was a high percentage punch, in that he's gonna throw that hook and he's gonna connect more often than not, however, the damage came from GSP moving into it and changing the area of impact from his cheek/jaw to his temple. 9/10 that punch lands, but since Serra didn't intend for that punch to work out the way it did, I'd call it a lucky punch.
Does that all make sense?
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It doesn't matter if GSP was moving in. The punch was ment to do damage and it did. That's not luck imo. Hook to the jaw is intended to rock or knock someone out... so it did its job regardless...
sourpuss said:
Of course there is. If you believe in luck at all, it applies to everything.
Just because you intend to land doesn't mean luck can't play a part.
It's a romantic notion to think everything that happens is planned and well placed and the results you see are all turning out as intended, but that's just not reality.
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So by your thinking all punches that land are lucky?
I think the problem here is that people are trying to put "punches" (or any technique) in either a full-luck or complete lack of luck option where it's probably more of a gradient. For instance, a fight that would be down to complete luck would be if I were fighting Anderson Silva and as soon as the fight started he came running at me, slipped, and fell with his chin landing on my fist, knocking himself out. It would be 100% luck because I had no involvement in it. A 99% luck scenario would be where he started charging at me and I closed my eyes and threw some punches in hope and somehow managed to knock him out. Further down (random *** number = 90% luck) we could get to Corey Hill breaking his leg on Dale Hartt (it was lucky on Hartt's part not Hill's obviously). It was obviously luck for Hartt that Hill broke his leg, but Hartt had done the proper technique of checking the kick so there was some technique there, but no intent of really harming Hill.
Even further down we could use Coleman v Shogun as an example. Coleman meant to take Shogun down and did it with proper technique. Futhermore, Coleman meant to do a slight amount of damage and Shogun used the incorrect technique of posting his arm. Let's say this was 80% luck (these numbers are just for ease of use).
If we then look at the Serra v GSP fight, a large distinction arises. First off, Serra was looking decent in that fight before the punch landed. Second, it wasn't just one punch, it was just one punch that started a series of punches. Finally, Serra threw the punch with a lot of power wanting to hit GSP in the head area (probably the chin) intending to stumble, rock, or knock GSP out. Because Serra's punch gained the desired effect and landed in roughly the area he was wanting it to, it's really not that lucky of a punch, but just a good punch. It may have been lucky that it landed on the side/back of the head compared to missing or another area of the head, but what if it landed on the chin? Whose to say it wouldn't have stumbled GSP the same?
ArcArsenal said:
....However, a counterpoint was the Serra/GSP punch. That was a high percentage punch, in that he's gonna throw that hook and he's gonna connect more often than not, however, the damage came from GSP moving into it and changing the area of impact from his cheek/jaw to his temple. 9/10 that punch lands, but since Serra didn't intend for that punch to work out the way it did, I'd call it a lucky punch....
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Your missing the real strikes that were the lucky ones. These are the ones that played a huge role in the what turned out to be the outcome. Serras striking didn't beat GSP, inescapable flaws in the nervous system are what set up the win for him. The first punch that started all the trouble, was a hook that became an unintentional forearm strike to the back of the head. Clearly an illegal area to strike intentionally. Not that it matters but a forearm strike to the area was one of the first pressure point techniques I ever learned. Still one of my favorite, used to demonstrate the effectiveness of striking the area in a close quarters situation. Anyhow, GSP slipped the fist, but in the process, the size difference and momentum of the follow thru. Matts forearm landed across the weakest structural area of the skull instead which dazed him causing the stumbling. Hitting anyone in that area, especially, with power will without question rattle anybodys sense of balance. It's easily succeptible to damage. Hence, the reason it's illegal to land strikes there. Next, the placement of his second and third punches that connected were equally questionable, both were hooks thrown near the fence. Both landed well behind the ear, near the same area as the previous did. Those 2 caused a flash ko and put him on all fours momentarily. Due to the shape of the skull and the associated pressure points there. It's a devastating area to land strikes there because it short circuits your whole body without much force needed to trigger at all really. Which is why his body completely buckled. I hate it when it happens in mma but it happens all the friggin time. It bums me out when it affects outcomes because it's such a fluke area to hit someone. It's almost never intentional during most affairs but the refs never say squat unless a guys landing them on a grounded opponent from the back. It never gets called in the heat of a standup exchange. It's unfortunate but understandable because it's hard to notice in real time. But it's clear as day when you see it happen in a replay. I doubt if those 3 strikes didn't land in the area they did. Serra never would have landed the shot, at the exact moment GSP got his legs back under him, to the temple that you refer to. Which is why, technically speaking, the second fight crowned the true winner of their first dance.
sumdude said:
ArcArsenal said:
....However, a counterpoint was the Serra/GSP punch. That was a high percentage punch, in that he's gonna throw that hook and he's gonna connect more often than not, however, the damage came from GSP moving into it and changing the area of impact from his cheek/jaw to his temple. 9/10 that punch lands, but since Serra didn't intend for that punch to work out the way it did, I'd call it a lucky punch....
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Your missing the real strikes that were the lucky ones. These are the ones that played a huge role in the what turned out to be the outcome. Serras striking didn't beat GSP, inescapable flaws in the nervous system are what set up the win for him. The first punch that started all the trouble, was a hook that became an unintentional forearm strike to the back of the head. Clearly an illegal area to strike intentionally. Not that it matters but a forearm strike to the area was one of the first pressure point techniques I ever learned. Still one of my favorite, used to demonstrate the effectiveness of striking the area in a close quarters situation. Anyhow, GSP slipped the fist, but in the process, the size difference and momentum of the follow thru. Matts forearm landed across the weakest structural area of the skull instead which dazed him causing the stumbling. Hitting anyone in that area, especially, with power will without question rattle anybodys sense of balance. It's easily succeptible to damage. Hence, the reason it's illegal to land strikes there. Next, the placement of his second and third punches that connected were equally questionable, both were hooks thrown near the fence. Both landed well behind the ear, near the same area as the previous did. Those 2 caused a flash ko and put him on all fours momentarily. Due to the shape of the skull and the associated pressure points there. It's a devastating area to land strikes there because it short circuits your whole body without much force needed to trigger at all really. Which is why his body completely buckled. I hate it when it happens in mma but it happens all the friggin time. It bums me out when it affects outcomes because it's such a fluke area to hit someone. It's almost never intentional during most affairs but the refs never say squat unless a guys landing them on a grounded opponent from the back. It never gets called in the heat of a standup exchange. It's unfortunate but understandable because it's hard to notice in real time. But it's clear as day when you see it happen in a replay. I doubt if those 3 strikes didn't land in the area they did. Serra never would have landed the shot, at the exact moment GSP got his legs back under him, to the temple that you refer to. Which is why, technically speaking, the second fight crowned the true winner of their first dance.
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this is insane....
So the Kongo KO was luck... Because of the inescapable flaws in Pat Barry's nervous system
sumdude said:
ArcArsenal said:
....However, a counterpoint was the Serra/GSP punch. That was a high percentage punch, in that he's gonna throw that hook and he's gonna connect more often than not, however, the damage came from GSP moving into it and changing the area of impact from his cheek/jaw to his temple. 9/10 that punch lands, but since Serra didn't intend for that punch to work out the way it did, I'd call it a lucky punch....
Click to expand...
Your missing the real strikes that were the lucky ones. These are the ones that played a huge role in the what turned out to be the outcome. Serras striking didn't beat GSP, inescapable flaws in the nervous system are what set up the win for him. The first punch that started all the trouble, was a hook that became an unintentional forearm strike to the back of the head. Clearly an illegal area to strike intentionally. Not that it matters but a forearm strike to the area was one of the first pressure point techniques I ever learned. Still one of my favorite, used to demonstrate the effectiveness of striking the area in a close quarters situation. Anyhow, GSP slipped the fist, but in the process, the size difference and momentum of the follow thru. Matts forearm landed across the weakest structural area of the skull instead which dazed him causing the stumbling. Hitting anyone in that area, especially, with power will without question rattle anybodys sense of balance. It's easily succeptible to damage. Hence, the reason it's illegal to land strikes there. Next, the placement of his second and third punches that connected were equally questionable, both were hooks thrown near the fence. Both landed well behind the ear, near the same area as the previous did. Those 2 caused a flash ko and put him on all fours momentarily. Due to the shape of the skull and the associated pressure points there. It's a devastating area to land strikes there because it short circuits your whole body without much force needed to trigger at all really. Which is why his body completely buckled. I hate it when it happens in mma but it happens all the friggin time. It bums me out when it affects outcomes because it's such a fluke area to hit someone. It's almost never intentional during most affairs but the refs never say squat unless a guys landing them on a grounded opponent from the back. It never gets called in the heat of a standup exchange. It's unfortunate but understandable because it's hard to notice in real time. But it's clear as day when you see it happen in a replay. I doubt if those 3 strikes didn't land in the area they did. Serra never would have landed the shot, at the exact moment GSP got his legs back under him, to the temple that you refer to. Which is why, technically speaking, the second fight crowned the true winner of their first dance.
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What fence are you talking about ?