Market Crash and Bailout

[Nastycrow]

Originally posted by: Archean_Life
Date: September 30, 2008 at 12:07 AM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/market-crash-and-bailout.6209/

Junkies with investments - you guys doing ok? Brick, have you traded in the Crossfire for a Tata nano?
Seriously though, I hope everyone's ok - but I'm actually glad the bailout didn't pass. I'm convinced that Congress didn't do enough research.
The partisan bickering today was pretty absurd, with Republicans claiming that Pelosi's speech sunk the deal. The speech seemed inappropriate and totally unnecessary, but it has nothing to do with the worthiness of the bill itself. Why not just man-up and admit they had misgivings with the bailout? We need to just fire the lot of them (Democrats and Republicans) and just go pick some random people off the street to take their place.
It also pisses me off that the media and the government aren't trying to educate the public about the details of the problem(s), the possible solutions in concrete terms, the language of the bailout, the unknowns... instead it's just a lot of meaningless b*llshit sound bites.

 

[Nastycrow]

Originally posted by: twsjajms
Date: September 30, 2008 at 12:40 AM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/market-crash-and-bailout.6209/

I agree Arch. As you probably have guessed I am not fan of Pelosi, but even if she had said nothing, if I was in congress I would not have voted for that bill, not by a long shot.
I'm in banking, and I know a bit about economics and investing. I just can't wrap my mind around why anyone in government with half a brain things buying up bad loans is a good idea. For those of us who invest, we invest in what we think has a higher potential for an upside with as little risk as possible(typically). With taxpayer dollars, the government has no business taking on this sort of risk. The upside potential is HUGE, but the risk.....holy crap.....700billion.....no f'n way.
As for my personal investments with the exception of my daughters 529(she's 3) when she was born I moved all my stuff into very conservative mutual funds. I'm down like everyone else, but not nearly as hard hit as people who refuse to diversify or like to take on med-high risk.
To those who have been hit hard, just please please don't freak out and sell. All you will do is lose money. Especially if you are younger, the chances of you earning your money back are very high in the long run.
I am very worried about the long term effect though. People are going to be very very cautious about investing in anything again, and rightly so. Some people have lost so much already.....

 

[Nastycrow]

Originally posted by: sallgeud
Date: September 30, 2008 at 12:44 AM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/market-crash-and-bailout.6209/

It's days like today that make me extremely happy I know how to use various options methods when I'm not sure about direction. Don't get me wrong... I was down today, but less than 1%.
I was actually up almost 400% on one of my bets... but it was only 1% of my portfolio

 

[Nastycrow]

Originally posted by: Shaunissey
Date: September 30, 2008 at 01:38 AM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/market-crash-and-bailout.6209/

I say let the stock market burn. I have a 401k, but it is not my livelihood, and I have funds elsewhere, in case of things like this. I think our government has become a prime example of what generations of self serving corrupt politicians, and a load of corporate insiders running government can do. We have allowed our government to rule over us, instead of being for us, and by us. No longer are we, the common men and women a part of the government, government is run by the elite. Humanity, civilization, and even the United States have existed prior to the US dollar, and prior to the NYSE. Sure, it is an adjustment, but I feel that what is about to happen is a part of a much needed cycle in the United States. The economy is adjusting and rebounding from years of careless, irresponsible purchases. The best example I can give is from today at work, I had a woman that I spoke with call regarding a new Audi A8 that she had purchased, although she did not even have enough money to pay for it, she bought it based on her credit score with zero down, in hopes that she would get a higher paying job before the first payment was due a month later. This is the type of mentality that has brought us to where we are, and the economy is suffering because of it.

 

[Nastycrow]

Originally posted by: buffaloblue
Date: September 30, 2008 at 02:31 AM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/market-crash-and-bailout.6209/

1,200,000,000,000.00
let that number sink in
thats the ammount of market value the stock market lost today
I think thats just the start to.

 

[Nastycrow]

Originally posted by: MrJames
Date: September 30, 2008 at 07:42 AM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/market-crash-and-bailout.6209/

buffaloblue said:
1,200,000,000,000.00
let that number sink in
thats the ammount of market value the stock market lost today
I think thats just the start to.
Click to expand...

 

[Nastycrow]

Originally posted by: Brick
Date: September 30, 2008 at 09:22 AM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/market-crash-and-bailout.6209/

Archean_Life said:
Junkies with investments - you guys doing ok? Brick, have you traded in the Crossfire for a Tata nano?
Seriously though, I hope everyone's ok - but I'm actually glad the bailout didn't pass. I'm convinced that Congress didn't do enough research.
Click to expand...
Lol...I'm not even sure what that is, but I don't think I want one. But I'm fine as well, the dough I have in the market (401(k), Roth IRAs, Ameritrade account) I consider all to be long-term investments, so I don't sweat these temporary fluctuations. Plus, by setting up automatic regular purchases, I engage in dollar-cost averaging, so these downturns can even be beneficial as it makes your new investing dollars go further during these down periods.
And I'm kind of glad it didn't pass as well; I said late last week that I was happy they were having trouble passing it, such a huge government takeover should not be undertaken without some serious debate and misgivings. The partisan stuff was a damn joke (Pelosi's wildly inappropriate speech, and the subsequent Republican whining about it). I hope people voted the way they did based on analysis of the bill and potential alternatives, and not playing a game of "gotcha" to the other side. But I think I hope for too much.

 

[Nastycrow]

Originally posted by: Gordon
Date: September 30, 2008 at 09:32 AM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/market-crash-and-bailout.6209/

As far as investments go it could be worse! I am down, as is everyone. However as mentioned above diversity is a beautiful thing. I got burned by WAMU, well actually my GF got burned by WAMU. She used to work there and had some Stock Options through her 401k. THat thing fell so fast that I didn't want her to sell off. I was hoping for a Buy Out! Unfortnately the Govt took over 1st leaving the approx 200 shares (nothing too serious) worth $0. Oh well... What can ya do?
As far as the Bail Out. My GF still works in the Mtg Industry and I am all for the bailout because it may save her job! She is at Wachovia now, who was just bought out by Citi. Hopefully, since both banks have operations in San Antonio, she can stay on there but as it stands now she is getting laid off again.
anyway, good luck on the market guys (and gals???) keep your eye on it. My ever so humble opinion is that there is some GREAT Value out there right now. I just have to find it. Buy Low Sell High!

 

[Nastycrow]

Originally posted by: osubuckeye4
Date: September 30, 2008 at 11:30 AM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/market-crash-and-bailout.6209/

My 401(k) is down, but I'm not touching that for a LONG time, so not a big concern.
I have some shares in Intel that have pretty much just been collecting dust (got them as a gift from my grandfather when I graduated college, before the transfer window was up they decreased 40% in value... great gift, haha).
I know they took a hit yesterday (52 wk low reached today, starting to rebound)... but again, nothing I'm really worried about since Intel isn't really going anywhere.

 

[Nastycrow]

Originally posted by: EnderWiggin
Date: September 30, 2008 at 11:36 AM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/market-crash-and-bailout.6209/

I refuse to even look at my tsp (govt equivalent of 401k.
I'm with what seems to be the consensus here. I find it beyond ridiculous that anyone based their vote not on the package itself, but on a speech given by Pelosi. Any individual who did that should not be in a leadership position and should be dismissed immediately. That being said, I'm not exactly excited to see the bill get passed.

 

[Nastycrow]

Originally posted by: ShadyCambo
Date: September 30, 2008 at 12:10 PM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/market-crash-and-bailout.6209/

Archean_Life said:
The partisan bickering today was pretty absurd, with Republicans claiming that Pelosi's speech sunk the deal. The speech seemed inappropriate and totally unnecessary, but it has nothing to do with the worthiness of the bill itself.
.
Click to expand...
Apprently Pelosi has enough power and clout that she is able to effect $700B transactions with a 10 minute speech. That's pull that no one has ever dreamed up. This was about everyone running scared because over 400 congressmen are up for re-election. Politicians are royally screwed either way though, if they do nothing they're screwed, no one gets re-elected during really bad economic times, if they do something and fail, they'll get blamed for it. I actually don't believe politicians for the most part have the business acumen to fully understand what they are or aren't doing, and in this case it needs business minded individuals, not politicians saving their ***.

 

[Nastycrow]

Originally posted by: Andre3000
Date: September 30, 2008 at 01:24 PM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/market-crash-and-bailout.6209/

Canadian stock market plunged as well.
Fortunately, my government pension stays exactly the same regardless of what happens with the market.
70% of the average of my best five years, once I reach 35 years of service. For the rest of my life. For every year less than 30 I work, I lose 2% (i.e. if I'm with the government for 25 years, I would get 50% of the average of my best five years). Plus permanent health benefits.
All economy-proof.

 

[Nastycrow]

Originally posted by: Brick
Date: September 30, 2008 at 01:25 PM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/market-crash-and-bailout.6209/

Well, I can see some of the complaints going on about the speech and understand why it derailed things because of the way Washington works, but I still hate the way Washington works. Repubs (as well as nearly 100 Democrats) are very nervous about the side effects of this bailout. It goes against the very fiber of conservative values to have government take over such a large segment of private enterprise.
Because of this, I think the most fiscally conservative Republicans were only going to get behind it if (1) there was no other option and (2) this wasn't going to be used as some sort of partisan club over their heads down the line. Then here comes Pelosi, RIGHT BEFORE THE VOTE, with a 10-minute diatribe about the Bush administration is to blame for this, the failed policies are to blame for that. Talk about irrelevant -- does the thing need to be passed or not? Not the time for the same tired rhetoric about Bush. Anyway, that spooked a lot of the convservatives, as it made it appear this was a strictly partisan debate in the House after all, so they suddenly felt much less cooperative on this fiscally liberal bill. I'm not saying it was right, but that's what happened, and I can at least partially see where they were coming from.
Plus, you got to see why Bush has approval ratings that makes Congress envious -- what a snake pit. Reid and Pelosi just make your skin crawl when they talk.

 

[Nastycrow]

Originally posted by: Andre3000
Date: September 30, 2008 at 01:31 PM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/market-crash-and-bailout.6209/

Brick said:
Plus, you got to see why Bush has approval ratings that makes Congress envious -- what a snake pit. Reid and Pelosi just make your skin crawl when they talk.
Click to expand...
The ONLY people who envy Bush's approval ratings are Congress.
Don't worry, though, I'm sure Congress' approval levels will go up when Obama takes over.

 

[Nastycrow]

Originally posted by: ShadyCambo
Date: September 30, 2008 at 01:42 PM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/market-crash-and-bailout.6209/

This has been the blame game, Republicans are blaming democrats, democrats are blaming W, private enterprise is blaming individuals and individuals are blaming private enterprise. That time has sincerly past. We should be worried less about who's fault it is and more about how to fix it. As it stands private enterprise does not have the capital necessary to fix it, so unfortunatley (I am 98% against govt intervention in business) the Feds have to do something, because leaving it alone has led to the failure of multiple financial instutions, stock market plummets, and the highest unemployment rate in quite some time.
I understand the concern from individuals who are angry that big business will be the first to benefit and if that is your opinion please look at this from a macro-economic level. Forget about home loans and cars, if access to capital is denied even things like computers, furniture, business loans will be effected. Getting that money will be more difficult, if your employer doesn't get some capital in these hard times how long can he afford to pay your salary? This is more than saving big business, this is about preventing financial armageddon (okay that was hyperbole).

 

[Nastycrow]

Originally posted by: twsjajms
Date: September 30, 2008 at 02:05 PM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/market-crash-and-bailout.6209/

Andre3000 said:
Brick said:
Plus, you got to see why Bush has approval ratings that makes Congress envious -- what a snake pit. Reid and Pelosi just make your skin crawl when they talk.
Click to expand...
The ONLY people who envy Bush's approval ratings are Congress.
Don't worry, though, I'm sure Congress' approval levels will go up when Obama takes over.
Click to expand...
Not to turn this into any of the other threads going...but why would you think their ratings would go up exactly? You make another statement with not even an opinion let alone a fair representation of facts.
There really is little reason that congress' approval rating would go up regardless of who the President is. The democrats have CONTROL of congress, in both houses right now. You cant really argue the president is hamstringing them on this bill with a veto, since he would have approved it. It goes against conservative values to vote for a bill letting the government spend that sort of money and basically take over an industry. So whos left to blame here? Bush would have approved the bill, the repubs voted against it like they should and were expected to.....how about the close to 100 democrats who voted against it? What is your excuse for them exactly?
Bush has rarely used his veto power, and on the bills he has vetoed none of them were some world changing bills that the democrats have been able to tout as the "see, its all Bush's fault". The only one coming close was the bill where dems tried to say bush and republicans were trying to prevent children from having health care. Once it came out that our taxes would be going towards health care for people making nearly 90k/year....well public opinion quickly swayed against the democrats.
So, why would their rating go up? The democrats have the power RIGHT NOW and are not even using it. They didn't have the balls to step up and pass a bill based on their convictions to withdraw troops from Iraq, they settled for a "non-binding" resolution. The first word that came to my head when I heard that was "p----". I would have earned a hell of a lot of respect for Democrats if they had forced Bush to veto a bill that required the pullout of troops from Iraq or if they cut off funding and forced a withdraw. Instead they tucked tail and whined about republicans, as usual. I may have disagree with them, but standing up FOR WHAT YOU BELIEVE IN is turning into an exclusively conservative value. Liberals seem to only believe in what will get them elected. And voting FOR this bailout bill would have hurt those 95 dems more than it helped them in Novemember....take a gander at how many of those 95 are up for election btw, you'll be surprised.

 

[Nastycrow]

Originally posted by: EnderWiggin
Date: September 30, 2008 at 02:12 PM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/market-crash-and-bailout.6209/

twsjajms said:
Andre3000 said:
Brick said:
Plus, you got to see why Bush has approval ratings that makes Congress envious -- what a snake pit. Reid and Pelosi just make your skin crawl when they talk.
Click to expand...
The ONLY people who envy Bush's approval ratings are Congress.
Don't worry, though, I'm sure Congress' approval levels will go up when Obama takes over.
Click to expand...
Not to turn this into any of the other threads going...but why would you think their ratings would go up exactly? You make another statement with not even an opinion let alone a fair representation of facts.
plus some other stuff
Click to expand...
Of course he stated an opinion. He stated that Congress's approval rating will go up when Obama gets in to office. That's an opinion and he stated it. The reasons for it are so obvious you can understand why Andre didn't feel the need to spell it out.
You already know that Andre believes strongly that Obama will do a much better job as president than what we've had for the past 8 years. This will make the entire government look much better and improve congress's approval rating without them doing a thing. If you've read any of his posts, you know this already.

 

[Nastycrow]

Originally posted by: EnderWiggin
Date: September 30, 2008 at 02:20 PM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/market-crash-and-bailout.6209/

twsjajms said:
Liberals seem to only believe in what will get them elected. And voting FOR this bailout bill would have hurt those 95 dems more than it helped them in Novemember....take a gander at how many of those 95 are up for election btw, you'll be surprised.
Click to expand...
If you think one party is more obsessed with getting elected than the other, I would accuse you of blatant bias.
Tangent:
It's understandable that we expect these men to know what is right, vote for what they believe in and all that jazz.
But this is the House of Representatives right? So their job is to execute the will of their constituency. It shouldn't matter how they feel about a vote, they aren't there for themselves, but to REPRESENT the interests of those that elected him. And if they don't want him to vote for something, isn't it his job to vote against it?
I think both views are valid and I wouldn't condemn a congressman for either action.

 

[Nastycrow]

Originally posted by: ShadyCambo
Date: September 30, 2008 at 02:28 PM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/market-crash-and-bailout.6209/

EnderWiggin said:
Tangent:
It's understandable that we expect these men to know what is right, vote for what they believe in and all that jazz.
But this is the House of Representatives right? So their job is to execute the will of their constituency. It shouldn't matter how they feel about a vote, they aren't there for themselves, but to REPRESENT the interests of those that elected him. And if they don't want him to vote for something, isn't it his job to vote against it?
Click to expand...
First off, I thought Andre was Canadian.
Yes they are their to represent their constituency, but they are also to act in the best interest of those people even if it goes against popular opinion. In times of crisis the population looks to its representatives for leadership, which we have not gotten from anyone in washington. True leadership would be acting in manner that would help the people even if public sentiment was against it and then explaining those actions and illustrating how we would benefit. Neither side of this debate has come out to say why or why not they voted the way they did except to blame Pelosi which is a transparent argument that holds no merit.

 

[Nastycrow]

Originally posted by: EnderWiggin
Date: September 30, 2008 at 02:30 PM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/market-crash-and-bailout.6209/

ShadyCambo said:
First off, I thought Andre was Canadian.
Click to expand...
He has dual citizenship.