MMA dealt another blow in New York
- Thread starter Nastycrow
- Start date
mike494 said:
The Syracuse newspaper is reporting that the bill to legalize MMA in New York is now stalled int he State Assembly. Yet another reason it sucks to be a New Yorker...
http://www.syracuse.com/today/index.ssf/2009/06/ultimate_fighting_stalls_in_as.html
Click to expand...
stalled doesn't mean failed.
stalled means "the process is taking long as f---ed like it always does"
i wouldn't worry. in today economic climate, states will be looking more to revenue cash cows like MMA.
Good post, and I am not ripping the messenger, but why do we all act like NYC is the holy grail of MMA? Yeah, MSG is a very historic arena, but are there not bigger out there? Go to Atlantic City...I mean hell, Vegas is more historic than MSG. I just get tired of NY being seen as the holy grail of MMA events, yeah they would make some money there, but it is not like they're going to fail if they don't get to fight in MSG.
P.S. I don't live in New York so I could careless where they have a UFC event....they can do it in Antartica for all I care, just put them on PPV.
stalled doesn't mean failed
Click to expand...
Stalled in political terms means they are trying to negotiate some other piece of legislation that has nothing to do with MMA, or sacntioning but it will earmark cash for another reps district to make him/her look good. It may pass but by the end of all the revision it will be the "MMA legalization, child care protection, law enforcement enhancement, anti-drug, anti crime bill."
Good post, and I am not ripping the messenger, but why do we all act like NYC is the holy grail of MMA? Yeah, MSG is a very historic arena, but are there not bigger out there? Go to Atlantic City...I mean hell, Vegas is more historic than MSG. I just get tired of NY being seen as the holy grail of MMA events, yeah they would make some money there, but it is not like they're going to fail if they don't get to fight in MSG.
Click to expand...
This isn't about money, it's about a shitload of money! NYC likes to think they are the Mecca for everything. I look at it this way, how legit is what you do if you're still banned from certain states?
ryanden said:
Good post, and I am not ripping the messenger, but why do we all act like NYC is the holy grail of MMA? Yeah, MSG is a very historic arena, but are there not bigger out there? Go to Atlantic City...I mean hell, Vegas is more historic than MSG. I just get tired of NY being seen as the holy grail of MMA events, yeah they would make some money there, but it is not like they're going to fail if they don't get to fight in MSG.
P.S. I don't live in New York so I could careless where they have a UFC event....they can do it in Antartica for all I care, just put them on PPV.
Click to expand...
I agree with you in regards to New York City. I live in upstate New York. It's an entire different world than the city. I've only been to the big apple once, and I'm in no rush to go back. I'd love to see some events held upstate. There are some great venues in this area. That being said, I obviously know that New York City is the big cash cow that they're chasing, but I'll drive to Philly or Montreal any day before I go to NYC. New York City is an unbelievable economic drain on the upstate taxpayers, and we see nothing in return. Everything from income tax to property taxes to highway tolls to gas prices are sky high here, and all the money goes straight to the city. For all the bitching about money that the city politicians do, you'd think they'd be jumping at the chance to boost their local economy any way they could. It's just frustrating to see something staring them right in the face that could help them out, and yet they play these stupid games.And it's even worse in this case, because the thing that could help them out is obviously something that I, along with many others, like.
If MMA gets approved in NY State then anyone can go in and put on an event, not just the UFC....stop giving credit to the the UFC for everything....and why not put something on in oh say Chicago, Houston, or LA? I could give a darn about NYC...and like he said, why not somewhere geographically close to NYC but not new york state? I mean anyone would would've gone in NYC would go any where close. I am so sick of hearing about MSG like it's the mecca of MMA.
Wow, not much love for the Big Apple around here. MSG is the most famous arena in the US if not the world. It's the second busiest arena next the M.E.N. center in England. There are approx 320 venues held in MSG every year. It has been the mecca for boxing until King and Arum moved the boxing game to Vegas. In 2007 the original MSG boxing ring was retired after
82
years of service. What else do you need to know?
Though most outside of NY don't like to admit it, NYC is the belly button of the world. 9/11 didn't happen in Vegas or Bumblefock Iowa, it happened in NYC...America's busiest and most populated city.
NYC would be a great venue for the UFC and MMA in general. Plus the UFC is looking for venues where they can make a ton of money on ticket sales. MSG would be one of those.
Oh and to the fellow from Upstate...If it wasn't for NYC, you'd actually be paying REAL real estate taxes up there. Here's the break down of NY's biggest cities by population...
10 largest cities (2005): New York, 8,143,197; Buffalo, 279,745; Rochester, 211,091; Yonkers, 196,425; Syracuse, 141,683; Albany, 93,523; New Rochelle, 72,967; Mount Vernon, 67,924; Schenectady, 61,280; Utica, 59,336
More TAX payers in NYC than in the rest of the state.
I pay $8,000.00 in real estate taxes a year for a modest 3 bedroom house on a 40x110 foot plot in Nassau County. How much do you pay? Oh and my income tax, tolls and gas are just as expensive as yours. If you work in NYC, you also have to pay City income tax to boot.
So tell me again how Upstate is paying for NYC?
blah, blah, blah NYC....who cares about your taxes? I am talking about MSG not being the holy grail of MMA events...I am making the point that there are bigger arenas that can be filled and the same amount of money can be made. Would it be symbolic, sure, but it isn't going to make or break anything.
BigDicMcGee said:
Wow, not much love for the Big Apple around here. MSG is the most famous arena in the US if not the world. It's the second busiest arena next the
M.E.N. center in England.
There are approx 320 venues held in MSG every year. It has been the mecca for boxing until King and Arum moved the boxing game to Vegas. In 2007 the original MSG boxing ring was retired after
82
years of service. What else do you need to know?
Though most outside of NY don't like to admit it, NYC is the belly button of the world. 9/11 didn't happen in Vegas or Bumblefock Iowa, it happened in NYC...America's busiest and most populated city.
NYC would be a great venue for the UFC and MMA in general. Plus the UFC is looking for venues where they can make a ton of money on ticket sales. MSG would be one of those.
Oh and to the fellow from Upstate...If it wasn't for NYC, you'd actually be paying REAL real estate taxes up there. Here's the break down of NY's biggest cities by population...
10 largest cities (2005): New York, 8,143,197; Buffalo, 279,745; Rochester, 211,091; Yonkers, 196,425; Syracuse, 141,683; Albany, 93,523; New Rochelle, 72,967; Mount Vernon, 67,924; Schenectady, 61,280; Utica, 59,336
More TAX payers in NYC than in the rest of the state.
I pay $8,000.00 in real estate taxes a year for a modest 3 bedroom house on a 40x110 foot plot in Nassau County. How much do you pay? Oh and my income tax, tolls and gas are just as expensive as yours. If you work in NYC, you also have to pay City income tax to boot.
So tell me again how Upstate is paying for NYC?
Click to expand...
that sounds lame
Like it or not, NYC is the capital of the world. If the UFC or any other MMA organization hosts an event in MSG, believe me, the world will be watching. People can pretend MMA doesn't need NYC, but you're just blowing smoke up your own asses. NYC matters to the UFC and to the rest of the MMA world.
atikiN said:
Like it or not, NYC is the capital of the world. If the UFC or any other MMA organization hosts an event in MSG, believe me, the world will be watching. People can pretend MMA doesn't need NYC, but you're just blowing smoke up your own asses. NYC matters to the UFC and to the rest of the MMA world.
Click to expand...
Tell me how? I am about as big as a sports fan as it gets...I mean hell I coach for a living...and not one time have I ever said "Man I need to watch this event because it's at MSG." I don't care if they fight on an Iceberg, just put it on PPV...also, would you lead us to believe that if the UFC doesn't hold an event in NYC they're going to fold? I think not....I love NYC, and god bless them for being one of the, if not the, greatest cities in the world, but come on, MMA doesn't hinge on MSG. I would think a UFC card on CBS in Bumfuck Egpyt would be bigger than a PPV in MSG....sorry, but it's true, there are bigger fish to fry. Like I said earlier, MSG is more symbolic than anything, but then again so are a lot of arenas.
ryanden said:
Tell me how? I am about as big as a sports fan as it gets...I mean hell I coach for a living...and not one time have I ever said "Man I need to watch this event because it's at MSG." I don't care if they fight on an Iceberg, just put it on PPV...also, would you lead us to believe that if the UFC doesn't hold an event in NYC they're going to fold? I think not....I love NYC, and god bless them for being one of the, if not the, greatest cities in the world, but come on, MMA doesn't hinge on MSG. I would think a UFC card on CBS in Bumfuck Egpyt would be bigger than a PPV in MSG....sorry, but it's true, there are bigger fish to fry. Like I said earlier, MSG is more symbolic than anything, but then again so are a lot of arenas.
Click to expand...
Theres a little more then symbolism but I do agree with you to a point. Money wise for that actual event yes a CBS card in joilet Illinois would make them more then a PPV in MSG. Where it stops becoming symbolic though is contacts and resources in the city. Networking, baby shaking and hand kissing would be big at an event in NYC. Therea a reason afterall that NASCAR of all orgs holds their yearly ceremony for many years in NYC to crown their champion. The entire NASCAR community is based out of the Charlotte NC area, and would be SOOO much easier logistically for them to just do it there. Instead they choose to go to NYC, so theres benefits there we arent necessarily seeing.
Theres a little more then symbolism but I do agree with you to a point. Money wise for that actual event yes a CBS card in joilet Illinois would make them more then a PPV in MSG. Where it stops becoming symbolic though is contacts and resources in the city. Networking, baby shaking and hand kissing would be big at an event in NYC. Therea a reason afterall that NASCAR of all orgs holds their yearly ceremony for many years in NYC to crown their champion. The entire NASCAR community is based out of the Charlotte NC area, and would be SOOO much easier logistically for them to just do it there. Instead they choose to go to NYC, so theres benefits there we arent necessarily seeing.[/quote]
What benefits? And who said any MMA organization is barred from holding a fundraiser in NYC? I mean they can build contacts without having to hold an event there. If you don't think that they are building relationships with people, then I think you're wrong, NYC and around the world...I just don't see how having an event at MSG is going to all of the sudden cure every problem, and I don't actually know, outside of lining their pockets, what it would do. Everyone who is associated with the UFC knows about every upcoming event....we're not going to have an event at MSG gardens and all of the sudden everyone who lives under a rock will say "man, what's this UFC thing? I think I am going to buy all their merchandise!"
Dana White and the UFC could very well hold their HOF ceremony in NYC, that is without question...so, I still don't see why MSG is the holy grail...if anything, they should say screw you New York, we'll go make money for everyone else and raise our stock everywhere else around the world, if you don't want to get on board, we don't need you.
ryanden said:
What benefits? And who said any MMA organization is barred from holding a fundraiser in NYC? I mean they can build contacts without having to hold an event there. If you don't think that they are building relationships with people, then I think you're wrong, NYC and around the world...I just don't see how having an event at MSG is going to all of the sudden cure every problem, and I don't actually know, outside of lining their pockets, what it would do. Everyone who is associated with the UFC knows about every upcoming event....we're not going to have an event at MSG gardens and all of the sudden everyone who lives under a rock will say "man, what's this UFC thing? I think I am going to buy all their merchandise!"
Dana White and the UFC could very well hold their HOF ceremony in NYC, that is without question...so, I still don't see why MSG is the holy grail...if anything, they should say screw you New York, we'll go make money for everyone else and raise our stock everywhere else around the world, if you don't want to get on board, we don't need you.
Click to expand...
Its not the same as capping your night off with the fights then after party. Its just how business is done and NYC has a lot of business that could get done. Of course they have contacts. Who do you think half of those people with floor seats are? They arent paid tickets, they are business contacts. Its like a golf course. you dont need to be at the golf course to get business done and make contacts, but it sure will help your career if you golf.
I get that, I've dealt with that, and I know how things are done after a show...but I don't get what you're trying to say about what it would accomplish. Like is there some magical business model we don't know about in NYC? And is business not done that way everywhere? And who does a dinner, a show, and cocktails with money better than Vegas? The town was built on that. So please tell me what it would accomplish in NY that isn't going on elsewhere.
ryanden said:
Its not the same as capping your night off with the fights then after party. Its just how business is done and NYC has a lot of business that could get done. Of course they have contacts. Who do you think half of those people with floor seats are? They arent paid tickets, they are business contacts. Its like a golf course. you dont need to be at the golf course to get business done and make contacts, but it sure will help your career if you golf.
Click to expand...
I get that, I've dealt with that, and I know how things are done after a show...but I don't get what you're trying to say about what it would accomplish. Like is there some magical business model we don't know about in NYC? And is business not done that way everywhere? And who does a dinner, a show, and cocktails with money better than Vegas? The town was built on that. So please tell me what it would accomplish in NY that isn't going on elsewhere.[/quote]
it's just a step towards legitimacy. they're fighting to get it legalized all over the country. fighting in MSG could lend that kind of legitimacy. like "boxing is here, so is mma. both must be legit"
grapplethis said:
ryanden said:
Its not the same as capping your night off with the fights then after party. Its just how business is done and NYC has a lot of business that could get done. Of course they have contacts. Who do you think half of those people with floor seats are? They arent paid tickets, they are business contacts. Its like a golf course. you dont need to be at the golf course to get business done and make contacts, but it sure will help your career if you golf.
Click to expand...
I get that, I've dealt with that, and I know how things are done after a show...but I don't get what you're trying to say about what it would accomplish. Like is there some magical business model we don't know about in NYC? And is business not done that way everywhere? And who does a dinner, a show, and cocktails with money better than Vegas? The town was built on that. So please tell me what it would accomplish in NY that isn't going on elsewhere.
Click to expand...
it's just a step towards legitimacy. they're fighting to get it legalized all over the country. fighting in MSG could lend that kind of legitimacy. like "boxing is here, so is mma. both must be legit"[/quote]
Ok Grapple, I will buy that thought...but these people who think that all of the sudden MMA would gain, outside of legitimacy, are mistaken. I just think that you can make millions otherwise, and any businessman in NYC can hop on board anytime.
grapplethis said:
^^ word, but i thnk it's just important to get sanctioning in every state possible. MSG is an epic venue, and it couldn't hurt. it's not as if the UFC isn't trying for sanctioning elsewhere, NYC just gets all the attention. because it's NYC.
Click to expand...
Thank you sir for satisfying my argument....so all the holy grail people out there, Grapple ended this in my mind.