Perfect first match to build Overeem hype: Overeem vs. Kongo

[Nastycrow]

Originally posted by: smfowns4
Date: August 17, 2011 at 05:54 PM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/perfect-first-match-to-build-overeem-hype-overeem-vs-kongo.41349/

Does anyone else think it's bad to put "The Demolition Man" up against the strongest wrestler in the division first? Don't get me wrong, Alistair/Brock is a very intriguing match, but if they're trying to hype Overeem, which I think they should considering all the marketability he could have, they should put him up against a striker that doesn't posses the same skills that he does. Who you may ask?
Cheick Kongo.
Yes, I am aware that Cheick's striking is far overrated. But that's the thing. So many casual fans give Kongo this weird-respect for his striking when I'm not sure that he deserves it. Don't get me wrong, Kongo is a good striker. But showing in his fights against Pat Barry and even Mirko Cro Cop, it's certain that Kongo isn't an elitist at kickboxing like everyone says he is.
But, if fans are going to believe he is, why not use it to their advantage when marketing? Overeem/Kongo would not only be a battle of the "freakish bodybuilders", but it would give Overeem a nice name to fight before moving him up the ranks against either the Velasquez/dos Santos winner or someone like Frank Mir or Brock Lesnar.
Yes, I am aware that Kongo is fighting "Meathead" next and that's not an easy task itself. In fact, some could argue that Mittrione might beat Kongo. But the thing is, "Meathead" doesn't need the hype as much as Overeem does. I say scratch the Mittrione/Kongo fight and add Overeem/Kongo to either UFC 140 or UFC 141 (obviously because if Lesnar headlines UFC 140, Overeem should headline another event).
Thoughts? Good idea/bad idea? Any better options?

 

[Nastycrow]

Originally posted by: ScreamBloodyGordon
Date: August 17, 2011 at 05:59 PM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/perfect-first-match-to-build-overeem-hype-overeem-vs-kongo.41349/

Re: Perfect first match to build Overeem hype: Overeem vs. K
Don't think Overeem would take it, he would want/should get a top 5 Heavyweight.

 

[Nastycrow]

Originally posted by: PsychoIcon
Date: August 17, 2011 at 06:00 PM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/perfect-first-match-to-build-overeem-hype-overeem-vs-kongo.41349/

Re: Perfect first match to build Overeem hype: Overeem vs. K
You cant over-market someone who is already over-hyped ubberly!
He will be exposed and I think the sooner they get him the big names the better for them.
Dont want to waste time with contracts and hype and then have him lose to nobody without selling tickets.

 

[Nastycrow]

Originally posted by: smfowns4
Date: August 17, 2011 at 06:04 PM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/perfect-first-match-to-build-overeem-hype-overeem-vs-kongo.41349/

Re: Perfect first match to build Overeem hype: Overeem vs. K
PsychoIcon said:
You cant over-market someone who is already over-hyped ubberly!
He will be exposed and I think the sooner they get him the big names the better for them.
Dont want to waste time with contracts and hype and then have him lose to nobody without selling tickets.
Click to expand...
You make some valid points, but you also have to put this into recognition:
Overeem isn't known to the casual fan as much as someone like perhaps Brock Lesnar or Frank Mir. Not a lot of MMA fans even know what K-1 is. But if they market Overeem as the "best striker in the world" and use his K-1 World Champ accomplishments as a feat, then put him up against someone like Kongo for him to showcase his striking skills, I think that would put him over-the-top.
Partially I believe this because the Heavyweight division itself isn't very stacked. I think if he disposed of Kongo quickly, he could get an instant title shot and possibly be one of the most hyped fighters in the UFC itself. Do you have any idea how many tickets would sell if dos Santos ended up fighting Alistair?
Then again, Kongo would probably try to take Overeem down. If that were to happen, and Kongo actually successfully took Overeem down my plan could backfire. You don't want another Shields/Kampmann to happen when trying to promote a "top fighter in their respective division".

 

[Nastycrow]

Originally posted by: PsychoIcon
Date: August 17, 2011 at 06:08 PM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/perfect-first-match-to-build-overeem-hype-overeem-vs-kongo.41349/

Re: Perfect first match to build Overeem hype: Overeem vs. K
smfowns4 said:
PsychoIcon said:
You cant over-market someone who is already over-hyped ubberly!
He will be exposed and I think the sooner they get him the big names the better for them.
Dont want to waste time with contracts and hype and then have him lose to nobody without selling tickets.
Click to expand...
You make some valid points, but you also have to put this into recognition:
Overeem isn't known to the casual fan as much as someone like perhaps Brock Lesnar or Frank Mir. Not a lot of MMA fans even know what K-1 is. But if they market Overeem as the "best striker in the world" and use his K-1 World Champ accomplishments as a feat, then put him up against someone like Kongo for him to showcase his striking skills, I think that would put him over-the-top.
Partially I believe this because the Heavyweight division itself isn't very stacked. I think if he disposed of Kongo quickly, he could get an instant title shot and possibly be one of the most hyped fighters in the UFC itself. Do you have any idea how many tickets would sell if dos Santos ended up fighting Alistair?
Then again, Kongo would probably try to take Overeem down. If that were to happen, and Kongo actually successfully took Overeem down my plan could backfire. You don't want another Shields/Kampmann to happen when trying to promote a "top fighter in their respective division".
Click to expand...
Eh, I think your giving too much credit to this common mma fan thing. I believe that everyone has to earn there way, and hes partially already done that by being in SF. He did a show in Dallas. Hes a K-1 Champ. Hes famous across the world.
Americans are in-love with huge-musclebound steroid looking guys who have devastating knockouts. They dont pay attention to the detail that hes done knocked out a bunch of nobodies.

 

[Nastycrow]

Originally posted by: smfowns4
Date: August 17, 2011 at 06:13 PM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/perfect-first-match-to-build-overeem-hype-overeem-vs-kongo.41349/

Re: Perfect first match to build Overeem hype: Overeem vs. K
PsychoIcon said:
Eh, I think your giving too much credit to this common mma fan thing. I believe that everyone has to earn there way, and hes partially already done that by being in SF. He did a show in Dallas. Hes a K-1 Champ. Hes famous across the world.
Americans are in-love with huge-musclebound steroid looking guys who have devastating knockouts. They dont pay attention to the detail that hes done knocked out a bunch of nobodies.
Click to expand...
Wait, what?
He's had two fights in the US in like four years. There's no way he's reached his peak marketability-wise. The common fans may know him from Strikeforce, but in all honestly how many common fans actually watch Strikeforce compared to the UFC? Not many.
To say that he's on the same level as Mir or Lesnar is flat out ridiculous in my opinion. Of course he's got a lot of hype for being the "big, steroid" guy. But, them marketing his striking abilities and then putting him against a fighter with "good striking" like people think Kongo have would be beneficial in my opinion. They would then worship him.
Don't take my tone the wrong way. I'm not trying to insinuate an argument. I'm just stating my thoughts.

 

[Nastycrow]

Originally posted by: LitesOutPHX
Date: August 17, 2011 at 06:23 PM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/perfect-first-match-to-build-overeem-hype-overeem-vs-kongo.41349/

Re: Perfect first match to build Overeem hype: Overeem vs. K
He would take it, wasnt he the champ and took a fight with Rogers who had just lost to Fedor?
If the other HWs are booked, why not?

 

[Nastycrow]

Originally posted by: PsychoIcon
Date: August 17, 2011 at 06:26 PM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/perfect-first-match-to-build-overeem-hype-overeem-vs-kongo.41349/

Re: Perfect first match to build Overeem hype: Overeem vs. K
smfowns4 said:
PsychoIcon said:
Eh, I think your giving too much credit to this common mma fan thing. I believe that everyone has to earn there way, and hes partially already done that by being in SF. He did a show in Dallas. Hes a K-1 Champ. Hes famous across the world.
Americans are in-love with huge-musclebound steroid looking guys who have devastating knockouts. They dont pay attention to the detail that hes done knocked out a bunch of nobodies.
Click to expand...
Wait, what?
He's had two fights in the US in like four years. There's no way he's reached his peak marketability-wise. The common fans may know him from Strikeforce, but in all honestly how many common fans actually watch Strikeforce compared to the UFC? Not many.
To say that he's on the same level as Mir or Lesnar is flat out ridiculous in my opinion. Of course he's got a lot of hype for being the "big, steroid" guy. But, them marketing his striking abilities and then putting him against a fighter with "good striking" like people think Kongo have would be beneficial in my opinion. They would then worship him.
Don't take my tone the wrong way. I'm not trying to insinuate an argument. I'm just stating my thoughts.
Click to expand...
No I agree wtih you, but it would take One Marketing Campain to get him up there with JDS and Others.

 

[Nastycrow]

Originally posted by: coreymb
Date: August 17, 2011 at 06:34 PM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/perfect-first-match-to-build-overeem-hype-overeem-vs-kongo.41349/

Re: Perfect first match to build Overeem hype: Overeem vs. K
I think that would be a great idea. Overeem doesn't deserve a title shot by any means. I'm not sure why he would want to jump into the deep end and face a solid wrestler right away either. Get some confidence going against guys like Kongo and just adapt more. He could also build up his brand name here in the states, so if and when the time comes to fight some of the bigger names(maybe for the title), it will be that much more insane.
Overeem has solid potential to be a fixture in UFC's HW division. I think he may very well have a hard time against some of the better wrestlers though. Then again, there are not that many great wrestlers in the division, or at least I don't think so.

 

[Nastycrow]

Originally posted by: RearNakedSlam
Date: August 17, 2011 at 06:50 PM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/perfect-first-match-to-build-overeem-hype-overeem-vs-kongo.41349/

Re: Perfect first match to build Overeem hype: Overeem vs. K
This is honestly a decent idea. If he lives up to the hype and dominates Kongo by KO, then they can use that hype to make a move for the title. If he fails to live up to it and gets beat by Kongo, then he doesn't live up to the hype and he can be forgotten.

 

[Nastycrow]

Originally posted by: roostproof
Date: August 17, 2011 at 06:56 PM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/perfect-first-match-to-build-overeem-hype-overeem-vs-kongo.41349/

Re: Perfect first match to build Overeem hype: Overeem vs. K
This would be a evenly match fight IMO.. Both good strikers both have questionable chins. First to land the big one wins...

 

[Nastycrow]

Originally posted by: smfowns4
Date: August 17, 2011 at 06:58 PM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/perfect-first-match-to-build-overeem-hype-overeem-vs-kongo.41349/

Re: Perfect first match to build Overeem hype: Overeem vs. K
Thanks for the positive feedback guys!
roostproof said:
This would be a evenly match fight IMO.. Both good strikers both have questionable chins. First to land the big one wins...
Click to expand...
Eh, I'm not quite sure just because they both have questionable chins means that it's an even fight. Overeem is way more technical and I just believe he would outclass Kongo. I do agree though that Kongo has incredibly scary KO power.

 

[Nastycrow]

Originally posted by: coreymb
Date: August 17, 2011 at 07:01 PM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/perfect-first-match-to-build-overeem-hype-overeem-vs-kongo.41349/

Re: Perfect first match to build Overeem hype: Overeem vs. K
roostproof said:
This would be a evenly match fight IMO.. Both good strikers both have questionable chins. First to land the big one wins...
Click to expand...
I don't think it's even, at all. I think bookies would feel the same way. Kongo's striking is not even close to Overeem's. No way. Overeem will be able to get lose in this fight. I truly believe it was hard to get going when Werdum wanted a bjj match. Reem didn't even set up his jab or anything. Just defended TD's and threw bombs once in awhile(with some knees). Kongo has a slight amount of wrestling, but nothing amazing enough to the point where Overeem wouldn't be able to defend it.
Overeem would be too powerful for Kongo. His striking would be too much and he could always submit Kongo as well.
This is the kind of match up Overeem needs. Not a guy like Cain or Lesnar. Overeem first needs to pick up some OK wins in UFC to prove himself and it would beneficial to build his brand as well. Marketing a guy like Overeem would be an extremely easy sell for many casuals.

 

[Nastycrow]

Originally posted by: roostproof
Date: August 17, 2011 at 07:06 PM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/perfect-first-match-to-build-overeem-hype-overeem-vs-kongo.41349/

Re: Perfect first match to build Overeem hype: Overeem vs. K
smfowns4 said:
Thanks for the positive feedback guys!
roostproof said:
This would be a evenly match fight IMO.. Both good strikers both have questionable chins. First to land the big one wins...
Click to expand...
Eh, I'm not quite sure just because they both have questionable chins means that it's an even fight. Overeem is way more technical and I just believe he would outclass Kongo. I do agree though that Kongo has incredibly scary KO power.
Click to expand...
Im not thinking their chins make the fight even. I was thinking they are both good strikers with questionable ground games. Pat Barry was supposted to be a better technical striker better leg kicks with more power then Kongo also but it didn't work out for him..

 

[Nastycrow]

Originally posted by: smfowns4
Date: August 17, 2011 at 07:09 PM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/perfect-first-match-to-build-overeem-hype-overeem-vs-kongo.41349/

Re: Perfect first match to build Overeem hype: Overeem vs. K
roostproof said:
Im not thinking their chins make the fight even. I was thinking they are both good strikers with questionable ground games. Pat Barry was supposted to be a better technical striker better leg kicks with more power then Kongo also but it didn't work out for him..
Click to expand...
Well, yeah. But you have to put two things into account here:
1) Look how bad Kongo got beat up there before the knockout and tell me if you could see Kongo doing that to Overeem. I personally can't.
2) Barry was a failed kickboxer in K-1 if my memory serves me correct. Overeem is a K-1 champion.

 

[Nastycrow]

Originally posted by: roostproof
Date: August 17, 2011 at 07:18 PM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/perfect-first-match-to-build-overeem-hype-overeem-vs-kongo.41349/

Re: Perfect first match to build Overeem hype: Overeem vs. K
smfowns4 said:
roostproof said:
Im not thinking their chins make the fight even. I was thinking they are both good strikers with questionable ground games. Pat Barry was supposted to be a better technical striker better leg kicks with more power then Kongo also but it didn't work out for him..
Click to expand...
Well, yeah. But you have to put two things into account here:
1) Look how bad Kongo got beat up there before the knockout and tell me if you could see Kongo doing that to Overeem. I personally can't.
2) Barry was a failed kickboxer in K-1 if my memory serves me correct. Overeem is a K-1 champion.
Click to expand...
I just think Kongo would be the most even match for AO. He would have to do something "imperssive" in MMA to make me believe he would have a chance against Cain, Brock or Carwin. I would bet the house JDS would out strike him with speed as well..

 

[Nastycrow]

Originally posted by: smfowns4
Date: August 17, 2011 at 07:20 PM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/perfect-first-match-to-build-overeem-hype-overeem-vs-kongo.41349/

Re: Perfect first match to build Overeem hype: Overeem vs. K
roostproof said:
I would bet the house JDS would out strike him with speed as well..
Click to expand...
I definitely wouldn't.

 

[Nastycrow]

Originally posted by: JC507
Date: August 17, 2011 at 07:49 PM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/perfect-first-match-to-build-overeem-hype-overeem-vs-kongo.41349/

Re: Perfect first match to build Overeem hype: Overeem vs. K
smfowns4 said:
PsychoIcon said:
You cant over-market someone who is already over-hyped ubberly!
He will be exposed and I think the sooner they get him the big names the better for them.
Dont want to waste time with contracts and hype and then have him lose to nobody without selling tickets.
Click to expand...
You make some valid points, but you also have to put this into recognition:
Overeem isn't known to the casual fan as much as someone like perhaps Brock Lesnar or Frank Mir. Not a lot of MMA fans even know what K-1 is. But if they market Overeem as the "best striker in the world" and use his K-1 World Champ accomplishments as a feat, then put him up against someone like Kongo for him to showcase his striking skills, I think that would put him over-the-top.
Partially I believe this because the Heavyweight division itself isn't very stacked. I think if he disposed of Kongo quickly, he could get an instant title shot and possibly be one of the most hyped fighters in the UFC itself. Do you have any idea how many tickets would sell if dos Santos ended up fighting Alistair?
Then again, Kongo would probably try to take Overeem down. If that were to happen, and Kongo actually successfully took Overeem down my plan could backfire. You don't want another Shields/Kampmann to happen when trying to promote a "top fighter in their respective division".
Click to expand...
Take your second paragraph and put that into account for a AO/Lesnar fight. If AO wins they hype him as you stated but by also saying he beat the former champ so he deserves the title shot. If he loses then they can hype Brock back up and have him fight for the title. Its a win win for the ufc in terms of marketing the next title contender. If AO fights Kongo and loses it back fires and if lesnar fights Mir or whoever and also loses then both of their big guys are not ready for a title shot. Put them up against each other and one of them will be, with no draw of course.

 

[Nastycrow]

Originally posted by: smfowns4
Date: August 17, 2011 at 07:53 PM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/perfect-first-match-to-build-overeem-hype-overeem-vs-kongo.41349/

Re: Perfect first match to build Overeem hype: Overeem vs. K
JC507 said:
Take your second paragraph and put that into account for a AO/Lesnar fight. If AO wins they hype him as you stated but by also saying he beat the former champ so he deserves the title shot. If he loses then they can hype Brock back up and have him fight for the title. Its a win win for the ufc in terms of marketing the next title contender. If AO fights Kongo and loses it back fires and if lesnar fights Mir or whoever and also loses then both of their big guys are not ready for a title shot. Put them up against each other and one of them will be, with no draw of course.
Click to expand...
That's a way to look at it, but not a way I particularly agree on.
Sure, Overeem/Lesnar may be a huge draw. But they would be eliminating one of their huge draws with that fight right there. Whoever loses probably won't be in title contention again. With the Overeem/Kongo fight, there's only a 50% chance (if that) at one of their huge draws being eliminated. Plus, like I said, it's uncertain on how many casual fans will actually know who Overeem is at first, which is why I'm saying give him a match where he can showcase his striking. But Overeem/Lesnar is not a "win win" especially considering the UFC still is booking Lesnar matches where he's in title contention (was booked to face dos Santos, now rumors about Overeem and Mir).

 

[Nastycrow]

Originally posted by: JC507
Date: August 17, 2011 at 08:48 PM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/perfect-first-match-to-build-overeem-hype-overeem-vs-kongo.41349/

Re: Perfect first match to build Overeem hype: Overeem vs. K
smfowns4 said:
JC507 said:
Take your second paragraph and put that into account for a AO/Lesnar fight. If AO wins they hype him as you stated but by also saying he beat the former champ so he deserves the title shot. If he loses then they can hype Brock back up and have him fight for the title. Its a win win for the ufc in terms of marketing the next title contender. If AO fights Kongo and loses it back fires and if lesnar fights Mir or whoever and also loses then both of their big guys are not ready for a title shot. Put them up against each other and one of them will be, with no draw of course.
Click to expand...
That's a way to look at it, but not a way I particularly agree on.
Sure, Overeem/Lesnar may be a huge draw. But they would be eliminating one of their huge draws with that fight right there. Whoever loses probably won't be in title contention again. With the Overeem/Kongo fight, there's only a 50% chance (if that) at one of their huge draws being eliminated. Plus, like I said, it's uncertain on how many casual fans will actually know who Overeem is at first, which is why I'm saying give him a match where he can showcase his striking. But Overeem/Lesnar is not a "win win" especially considering the UFC still is booking Lesnar matches where he's in title contention (was booked to face dos Santos, now rumors about Overeem and Mir).
Click to expand...
Your point about overeem not being known by most casual fans is why putting him against lesnar makes more sense. If he wins it put AO on the map if he loses then they can just say he was overhyped and that ufc heavyweights have always been the best. If lesnar wins he gets the title shot.