Podcast discussion

Eranys said:
It does not matter unless you are trying to profit from your service. And the fact that they could not not have accomplished this without the backing of the entire United States government means they don't get to grab a spotlight. It's shameful.
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I agree if they just came out and started writing books about it, however let's say someone else claimed and you know they're lying then I would have probably said something if it was me, and I wasn't even a former elite soldier which it may matter to them more having gone through that etc
 
a-mart said:
I agree if they just came out and started writing books about it, however let's say someone else claimed and you know they're lying then I would have probably said something if it was me, and I wasn't even a former elite soldier which it may matter to them more having gone through that etc
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I deleted a remark about the SEALs from my last post above. Let's just say there are strong opinions among Army Special Forces about how their cousins are behaving. It's a pretty solid unwritten rule that no one operator ever claims credit for these things. Not only could they not do their job without an ENORMOUS logistical tail and a massive intelligence apparatus, but they were also trained at great expense by the US Government. They also do no operate alone, and no single man could have undertaken the Bin Laden raid. Despite one person pulling a trigger, no individual person killed Bin Laden, and anyone saying they did are a disgrace to their uniform.

And if I was the soldier who knew someone else was lying, I would say exactly what I said above, even if I was the person who pulled the trigger. O'Neill can get fucked.
 
Eranys said:
I deleted a remark about the SEALs from my last post above. Let's just say there are strong opinions among Army Special Forces about how their cousins are behaving. It's a pretty solid unwritten rule that no one operator ever claims credit for these things. Not only could they not do their job without an ENORMOUS logistical tail and a massive intelligence apparatus, but they were also trained at great expense by the US Government. They also do no operate alone, and no single man could have undertaken the Bin Laden raid. Despite one person pulling a trigger, no individual person killed Bin Laden, and anyone saying they did are a disgrace to their uniform.

And if I was the soldier who knew someone else was lying, I would say exactly what I said above, even if I was the person who pulled the trigger. O'Neill can get fucked.
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I agree completely with your statement but lets not group all former SEALs together in your comment. While there is a large number of them that are trying to get famous for their past accomplishments, there is an even larger number of humble warriors that keep out of the lime light and dont brag about the cool shit they used to do for their 15 minutes of fame. Instead they live by the Warriors Creed especially where it says,"I do not advertise the nature of my work, nor seek recognition for my actions." This is not something only Navy SOF community is guilty of as I can give plenty of examples of former Delta, Green Beret and Rangers doing the exact same thing.
 
Eranys said:
I deleted a remark about the SEALs from my last post above. Let's just say there are strong opinions among Army Special Forces about how their cousins are behaving. It's a pretty solid unwritten rule that no one operator ever claims credit for these things. Not only could they not do their job without an ENORMOUS logistical tail and a massive intelligence apparatus, but they were also trained at great expense by the US Government. They also do no operate alone, and no single man could have undertaken the Bin Laden raid. Despite one person pulling a trigger, no individual person killed Bin Laden, and anyone saying they did are a disgrace to their uniform.

And if I was the soldier who knew someone else was lying, I would say exactly what I said above, even if I was the person who pulled the trigger. O'Neill can get fucked.
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Feelings on the guy who wrote the terminal list?
 
Trig said:
I agree completely with your statement but lets not group all former SEALs together in your comment. While there is a large number of them that are trying to get famous for their past accomplishments, there is an even larger number of humble warriors that keep out of the lime light and dont brag about the cool shit they used to do for their 15 minutes of fame. Instead they live by the Warriors Creed especially where it says,"I do not advertise the nature of my work, nor seek recognition for my actions." This is not something only Navy SOF community is guilty of as I can give plenty of examples of former Delta, Green Beret and Rangers doing the exact same thing.
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And we call our seals (Shayetet 13) the "Men of Silence" :)
 
Trig said:
I agree completely with your statement but lets not group all former SEALs together in your comment. While there is a large number of them that are trying to get famous for their past accomplishments, there is an even larger number of humble warriors that keep out of the lime light and dont brag about the cool shit they used to do for their 15 minutes of fame. Instead they live by the Warriors Creed especially where it says,"I do not advertise the nature of my work, nor seek recognition for my actions." This is not something only Navy SOF community is guilty of as I can give plenty of examples of former Delta, Green Beret and Rangers doing the exact same thing.
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You are absolutely correct, and that's why I deleted my original comment. It's not all, but I can say that there was definitely a culture problem amongst a not insignificant number of the SEAL teams in Afghanistan in '08-'09. I spent a year attached to an Army SF ODA in a support role (I was not SF) so I had a pretty good view into the SOF community there at the time. There are many details I would never share in this setting, but I can't say I was left with a positive impression of their general culture at that time.

To the best of my understanding, many of the problems I witnessed have been ironed out by now, and they have decimated and gutted entire teams since then. I do not wish to paint all SEALs with this brush. And they, like all SOF teams at that point in the GWOT, were extremely overstretched and war weary. I get that much. But questionable practices are still questionable.
 
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Los Lobos said:
Feelings on the guy who wrote the terminal list?
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Jack Carr? I'm not super familiar with his work, but to the best of my understanding, he writes fiction based off of his experiences. I personally have zero problem with that and don't know anyone who does. There isn't anything inherently wrong with writing books about your service and profiting, even if you're telling true stories, but there is a line.
 
Trig said:
Its actually quite common as multiple shots are fired at the same target while clearing rooms. Then to finish the job you canoe his head. I'm sure both O'Neil and Bissonnette shot him as well as others. Who shot the fatal round? We will never know nor will they.
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That's the thing, though, that makes this so much worse. This isn't two guys who definitely shot bin Laden arguing over who had the final kill shot. O'Neill is saying, vehemently, that Biss WASN'T EVEN THERE, and was in a different building on the compound at the time. The whole thing is pretty gross and embarrassing.

That said, I've watched a few Ryan/Stumpf interviews on the subject, and the consensus among people they've interviewed is that all accounts are in reasonable agreement (with allowances for "fog of war" type differences) except for O'Neill's. His seems to significantly differ. And in interviews I've seen with O'Neill, he does not strike me as the most credible person on the matter; he is always jittery, defensive and accusatory. He's also the one who admitted to lying in the AAD. In Biss's interviews he does seem a tad...off...but I found him more believable overall.

tl;dnr: who the fuck knows, and we never will. In the long run, doesn't really matter to the rest of us. The fucker is dead.
 
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