Pro Boxer Paulie Malignaggi talks MMA vs Boxer pay
- Thread starter Nastycrow
- Start date
Spud said:
He has a point. In boxing, if you're a massive draw (Mayweather, Pacquiao etc.) you keep most of the money you bring in.
That doesn't happen in MMA
.
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It kind of did for awhile with Fedor and him bouncing from all the non-UFC orgs and drawing huge paydays.
I kind of wonder if we're ever going to see a star that becomes bigger than the sport, breaks away from the UFC when s/he's not under contract, and starts putting on his/her own PPVs. Probably not anytime soon, but it could happen at some point down the road.
osubuckeye4 said:
It kind of did for awhile with Fedor and him bouncing from all the non-UFC orgs and drawing huge paydays.
I kind of wonder if we're ever going to see a star that becomes bigger than the sport, breaks away from the UFC when s/he's not under contract, and starts putting on his/her own PPVs. Probably not anytime soon, but it could happen at some point down the road.
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GSP or Lesnar if he would have stayed dominant are prob the only ones who could have done it seeing as how they consistently drew almost 1m
renjr84 said:
GSP or Lesnar if he would have stayed dominant are prob the only ones who could have done it seeing as how they consistently drew almost 1m
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I think that Fedor/Lesnar (if both didn't have the bumps in their careers they did) could have been the first type of super-mega fight like that where they could have got a bunch of non-UFC'ers or boxers to comprise the undercard, and put on their own PPV outside of any organization.
I can't really see Cain being able to pull it off at this point... nor Jones or Rousey or any of the other bigger names in the UFC at this point.
It's an interesting thought though.
Spud said:
He has a point. In boxing, if you're a massive draw (Mayweather, Pacquiao etc.) you keep most of the money you bring in. That doesn't happen in MMA.
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There are reasons for that. In Boxing, Showtime/HBO pays the majority of the production and marketing, the promoter is spending a limited amount of money. 95% of boxing promotions are fairly small companies and do not have the overhead that a company with 300+ employees does. Big Boxing also charges a lot more for PPV so there is quite a bit more to distribute.
osubuckeye4 said:
I think that Fedor/Lesnar (if both didn't have the bumps in their careers they did) could have been the first type of super-mega fight like that where they could have got a bunch of non-UFC'ers or boxers to comprise the undercard, and put on their own PPV outside of any organization.
I can't really see Cain being able to pull it off at this point... nor Jones or Rousey or any of the other bigger names in the UFC at this point.
It's an interesting thought though.
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I doubt it. Fedor never got over in the U.S., his contracts played a large role in the end of Strikeforce and Affliction. Lesnar/Fedor may have done 100k or 150k, but not more.
Top draw now is who? Jon jones? And he pulls in way less than a third of what Mayweather does in ppv buys. If jones was being promoted by anyone but the UFC his numbers would drop way lower on top of that.
Once a guy starts pulling in huge numbers and once it's realized that that guy is bigger than the UFC itself, then he can start pulling in boxer top pay days. But it'll be a while before we see anything like that.
Also, Look at Ed Herman. Total journeyman that makes 80k with a win way down in the undercard.
You'd never see that in boxing.
mabrown45 said:
doesn't really say anything new or different............of course the top fighters in boxing get paid more.
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Paulie Malignaggi has made Millions. He makes more than 98% of the fighters in MMA and he is not an Elite boxer. I think he made like 2 million his last fight, and Diaz can't get 500k to fight. Diaz is a bigger name in MMA than he is in Boxing. But boxing has been around for a lot longer and the UFC is a monoply of MMA.
BadassCoffee said:
Where do you see that? I know he made that much against Broner but that was a pretty big fight.
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Here's a link with his net worth according to one site. I'll see if I can find his payday for his last fight.
http://www.sportrichlist.com/boxing/paulie-malignaggi-net-worth/
Jowest9992000 said:
Paulie Malignaggi has made Millions. He makes more than 98% of the fighters in MMA and he is not an Elite boxer. I think he made like 2 million his last fight, and Diaz can't get 500k to fight. Diaz is a bigger name in MMA than he is in Boxing. But boxing has been around for a lot longer and the UFC is a monoply of MMA.
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Monopolies are good for sports, on a consistent basis pay and benefits have gone up. The problem is people see all other sports that have been established for decades and assume MMA fighters should be getting paid like that. They see that and like to forget that mma has not been established for decades........especially under 1 banner like most other pro sports.
Here is a good example of boxing vs mma pay
In the comments of the earlier "Is the UFC's Purchase of
Strikeforce
Bad for the Fighters?" article by Jonathan Snowden, a discussion started on the relative pay structure of MMA and boxing. The main point that some seemed to harp on was that undercard fighters on boxing cards fight for "peanuts." As I promised I would do in those comments I contacted the Nevada State Athletic Commission to get the full pay rundown for the six pro boxing events in the state so far in 2011.
This is going to be "numbers heavy" as we go through the cards and look at some of the details. The card disbursement is interesting as we see ESPN 2, HBO, Showtime, PPV and Fox Sports Net events all covered:
January 7 - ESPN 2 Friday Night Fights
Mauricio Herrera ($8,500) UD-12 Ruslan Provodnikov ($10,000)
Demetrius Andrade ($8,000) UD-8 Albert Herrera ($6,500)
Lonnie Smith ($800) KO-1 Jose Gomez ($1,800)
Harry Namauu ($2,000) UD-6 Manuel Otero ($1,500)
Richard Contreras ($1,200) KO-1 Juan Tepoz ($1,200)
Oscar Andrade ($1,200) UD-4 Deth'Marcus Hall ($1,200)
Jesus Gutierrez ($1,200) NC Franky Martinez ($1,200)
Total Payouts:
$46,300
This was a small televised show and the top two fights had decent pay. Lonnie Smith stands out as a particularly low payout. He was a local fighter with an 11-2 record facing a guy in Gomez who was 3-4 entering the night. That's simply filling out the card. A fight like Andrade/Hall was two guys over 25 years old both only 3-4 fights into their career so it's hard to say they should have been raking in big bucks for their apperance.
January 22 - Top Rank Live on Fox Sports Net
Diego Magdaleno ($8,500) TKO-5 Marcos Leonardo Jimenez ($6,000)
Robert Marroquin ($7,500) TKO-4 Eduardo Arcos ($6,000)
Jose Benavidez ($4,000) UD-6 Fernando Rodriguez ($3,000)
Julio Cesar Dos Santos ($2,500) RTD-5 Valente Tinajero ($2,500)
Abraham Han ($2,000) TKO-2 Orphius Waite ($3,000)
Anthony Lenk ($3,000) UD-6 Tyler Pogline ($2,000)
Jesse Magdaleno ($2,500) TKO-3 Cain Garcia ($1,500)
Total Payout:
$54,000
Low man on the payday totem pole was Cain Garcia. Garcia was 0-1 heading into the bout and facing a guy in Magdaleno who was 1-0. I want to make it clear that while it's easy to say "no one should make $1,500 for a fight" the reality is, making $1,500 when you're a career 0-1 ain't a bad gig.
February 19 - HBO World Championship Boxing
Nonito Donaire ($350,000) TKO-2 Fernando Montiel ($250,000)
Mike Jones ($75,000) UD-12 Jesus Soto Karass ($75,000)
Mark Jason Melligen ($10,000) UD-10 Gabriel Martinez ($6,000)
Mickey Bey Jr. ($8,000) MD-8 Jose Hernandez ($6,000)
Mike Alvarado ($20,000) RTD-4 Dean Harrison ($8,000)
Yordenis Ugas ($3,000) UD-6 Carlos Musquez ($2,500)
Rodrigo Garcia ($5,000) UD-4 Gerald Jordan ($3,500)
Ignacio Garcia ($2,200) MD-4 Armando Dorantes ($2,800)
Total Payout:
$827,000
Low man this time was Ignacio Garcia. Garcia was a career 3-3 while his opponent was 8-2 but had never beaten an opponent who entered the night with a winning record. While the usefulness of the bottom of the undercard on a show like this is something it is more than fair to question, I don't see anything that sticks out as unfair pay.
February 26 - Showtime Championship Boxing
Brandon Rios ($125,000) TKO-10 Miguel Acosta ($125,000)
Robert Marroquin ($7,500) UD-8 Gilberto Sanchez Leon ($6,750)
Anthony Lenk ($3,500) TKO-6 Terry Buterbaugh ($2,500)
Andy Ruiz Jr. ($3,000) UD-6 Alvaro Morales ($2,500)
Mike Lee ($5,000) TKO-1 Pablo Gomez ($1,500)
Jesse Magdaleno ($2,500) TKO-1 Jamie Gutierrez ($1,500)
Hiromitsu Miura ($600) TKO-1 Ramiro Bueno Jr. ($1,500)
Aaron Garcia ($5,000) MD-4 Alejandro Lopez ($4,000)
Total Payout:
$297,350
This is a weird card thanks to it being a split show on Showtime. Rios/Acosta was the main event and the co-main event was a bout out in Nebraska. This accounts for the huge drop in pay from the main event. Miura only made $600 but if we've learned anything about foreign fighters it's to never trust the reported payout. The $1,500 payouts belong to guys like the now 1-3-1 Pablo Gomez, 3-5 Jamie Gutierrez and 1-2 Ramiro (no) Bueno.
March 12 - Showtime PPV
Miguel Cotto ($1,000,000) TKO-12 Ricardo Mayorga ($50,000)
Miguel Vazquez ($150,000) UD-12 Leonardo Zappavigna ($65,000)
Pawel Wolak ($75,000) RTD-6 Yuri Foreman ($100,000)
Matt Korobov ($10,000) TKO-1 Michael Walker ($7,000)
Juan Gonzalez ($3,500) TKO-1 Jeremy McLaurin ($4,500)
Eric Molina ($8,000) TKO-6 Joseph Rabotte ($4,000)
Jesus Rojas ($3,000) UD-6 Isaac Hidalgo ($3,000)
Tommy Zbikowski ($50,000) TKO-1 Richard Bryant ($1,500)
Total Payout:
$1,534,500
Tommy Zbikowski was a Notre Dame safety and now plays for the Baltimore Ravens, this was his second pro bout and was clearly there for the "celebrity factor" while Richard Bryant was there because he was a 1-2 guy who was likely to go down early. Other than that there isn't anything I would say that sticks out as shocking. Rojas is a minor prospect (17-1) who appears to be on the "beat guys with bad records" path to an eventual undeserved shot at a minor title. Mayorga got paid much less than Cotto but is rumored to have received a percentage of PPV sales to offset that.
Now, let's look at
UFC 126
(also held in Nevada so we know methods of reporting pay are the same):
February 5 - UFC 126 PPV
Anderson Silva
: $200,000 (includes no win bonus) def.
Vitor Belfort
: $275,000
Forrest Griffin
: $275,000 ($150,000 win bonus) def.
Rich Franklin
: $75,000
Jon Jones
: $140,000 ($70,000 win bonus) def.
Ryan Bader
: $20,000
Jake Ellenberger
: $32,000 ($16,000 win bonus) def.
Carlos Eduardo Rocha
: $8,000
Miguel Torres
: $56,000 ($28,000 win bonus) def.
Antonio Banuelos
: $9,000
Donald Cerrone
: $36,000 ($18,000 win bonus) def.
Paul Kelly
: $19,000
Chad Mendes
: $19,000 ($9,500 win bonus) def.
Michihiro Omigawa
: $8,000
Demetrious Johnson
: $10,000 ($5,000 win bonus) def.
Norifumi Yamamoto
: $15,000
Paul Taylor
: $36,000 ($18,000 win bonus) def.
Gabe Ruediger
: $8,000
Kyle Kingsbury
: $20,000 ($10,000 win bonus) def.
Ricardo Romero
: $10,000
Mike Pierce
: $28,000 ($14,000 win bonus) def.
Kenny Robertson
: $6,000
Total Payout: $1,305,000 + 300,000 reported bonuses = $1,605,000
The takeaway here is that clearly the drop off in pay from the top of the card to the untelevised undercard for boxing is substantial but no one seems to be getting paid significantly less than they deserve. The pay disparity is based solely on the lower quality undercards than you find in the UFC. Obviously, these higher quality undercards are a great thing for MMA fans and the UFC has done a wonderful job of making undercards matter. But that is also out of necessity to get fighters under contract the fights they need without running hundreds of shows.
Still, looking at a complete card rundown should put an end to the idea that fighters on the low end of these boxing cards are getting a fifty dollar bill and a handshake.
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http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2011/3/15/2053137/examining-pay-structure-in-boxing-and-mma
MysterLynch said:
There are reasons for that. In Boxing, Showtime/HBO pays the majority of the production and marketing, the promoter is spending a limited amount of money. 95% of boxing promotions are fairly small companies and do not have the overhead that a company with 300+ employees does. Big Boxing also charges a lot more for PPV so there is quite a bit more to distribute.
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I think you're over-estimating the overhead costs of UFC events. The most the UFC has ever paid someone was $5 million (believed to be GSP at UFC 100). They took in more than that on the gate alone. Never mind the $40 million they took in from PPV (that's their share after the PPV providers take half). Add in merchandising (which is really f---ing expensive at events), sponsorships (and the sponsor tax) and it's clear that the UFC are taking most of the money, whereas in boxing most of the money goes to the fighters.