Shields On GSP: "Im The Best Guy He Hasn’t Faced"

[Nastycrow]

Originally posted by: Rocksteady
Date: December 02, 2009 at 04:11 PM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/shields-on-gsp-im-the-best-guy-he-hasn%E2%80%99t-faced.19905/

oakmantex said:
Rocksteady said:
Pretty sure Koscheck would murder shields, Fitch would man handle him, Paulo Thiago would also brutalize him aswell, I don't see him being a top 5 WW because he simply is not in the UFC.
(The UFC has the best WW's easily.)
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Jon Fitch told Sam Caplan, Sherdog, That "Jake Shields is the most underrated fighter in MMA...
I think he would do fine against the Top welterweights in the UFC or I wouldn't have said what I just did
"
GSP toldifight365.com "jake Shields would be a dream fight, like Fedor vs Lesner" and "Jake Shields is tough I think he would probably beat me in a grappling match, but I think I could beat him in MMA, but there is only one way to find out."
Jake Shields and GSP are both ranked p4p in the major sites Sports Illustrated, Inside MMA, Sports Today etc so it makes sense.
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writers/josh_gross/09/28/rankings.mma/index.html?eref=T1
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Just because Jon Fitch said so doesn't mean he would,
That is almost like Anderson Silva saying that Lyoto Machida beat Shogun decisively when he did not, at all.

 

[Nastycrow]

Originally posted by: Aetherial
Date: December 02, 2009 at 06:20 PM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/shields-on-gsp-im-the-best-guy-he-hasn%E2%80%99t-faced.19905/

Gibbs101 said:
[quote
he could train his striking for years on end and it would never be where GSP's is. the guy is a kyokushin black belt who, with the exception of a few moments in the first BJ fight and for two minutes against mat serra, has never been in trouble on the feet.
shields could also train his wrestling for the next decade and he would never get to the level GSP is at. the natl wrestling team up here is practically begging him to join for the next olympics.]
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Ok first jake shields is 24 wins 4 losses with 1 draw. He has won his last 13 in a row. vs GSP's 19 -2. First off shields is not only fighting at WW where has dominated he is fighting at MW where he just won the SF title. Shields losses have all come via decission except for one in which he lost via tko by strikes. Now the one he lost by tko was early in his career. And sense then 13 in a row is nothing to laugh about. AND its not like he is fighitng scrubs. I mean miller, condit, daley ( the UFC's newest british star), and Yushin Okami. Maybe not everyone likes his fighting style. And maybe he won't get to the level of striking and wrestling that GSP is at HOWEVER. Shields has a chin. He has better jitz than gsp and definetly has the toughness to hang in there. I think it'd be a good fight and i see shields pulling off a sub. ALTHOUGH out of all the UFC champions gsp and brock are my favorites.[/quote]
When was the last time GSP was subbed?
As far as GSP not facing anyone with Shields' BJJ? (not sure if you said that or someone else did)... uh, does the name BJ Penn ring a bell?
I know MMA math doesn't work well, but shields beating GSP would be a complete shock. He simply has nothing that GSP hasn't faced and dominated. I think he brings less to the table than pretty much anyone GSP has faced in nearly 3 years.

 

[Nastycrow]

Originally posted by: Sedulous
Date: December 02, 2009 at 06:42 PM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/shields-on-gsp-im-the-best-guy-he-hasn%E2%80%99t-faced.19905/

Gibbs101 said:
[quote
he could train his striking for years on end and it would never be where GSP's is. the guy is a kyokushin black belt who, with the exception of a few moments in the first BJ fight and for two minutes against mat serra, has never been in trouble on the feet.
shields could also train his wrestling for the next decade and he would never get to the level GSP is at. the natl wrestling team up here is practically begging him to join for the next olympics.]
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Ok first jake shields is 24 wins 4 losses with 1 draw. He has won his last 13 in a row. vs GSP's 19 -2. First off shields is not only fighting at WW where has dominated he is fighting at MW where he just won the SF title. Shields losses have all come via decission except for one in which he lost via tko by strikes. Now the one he lost by tko was early in his career. And sense then 13 in a row is nothing to laugh about. AND its not like he is fighitng scrubs. I mean miller, condit, daley ( the UFC's newest british star), and Yushin Okami. Maybe not everyone likes his fighting style. And maybe he won't get to the level of striking and wrestling that GSP is at HOWEVER. Shields has a chin. He has better jitz than gsp and definetly has the toughness to hang in there. I think it'd be a good fight and i see shields pulling off a sub. ALTHOUGH out of all the UFC champions gsp and brock are my favorites.[/quote]
Wow, Daley has no TD defense against wrestlers. Sure he can shrug off weak TD attempts from someone like Kampmann but Daley would get worked against most wrestlers because his ground game is severely lacking. Yet though it's so bad and Shields is SO good, Shields struggled to finish Daley even though he had him mounted for almost then entire fight and only subbed him towards the end of round two. I also think that the fight with Miller was very telling. The only person who came close to finishing that fight was Miller and Shields was only saved by the bell. He was a few seconds from blacking out. And for the love of god go watch the fight against Okami and tell me how Shields "beat" him.
I'm not even sure that Shields jitz is all it's hyped up to be. Sure he's really good but so are a lot of guys and it's not like he's ever subbed a black belt in an MMA match like Penn has. I think GSP could easily dominate him on the ground simply because he is way stronger, more athletic and his wrestling is a 100 times better AND GSP is a very good black belt himself.

 

[Nastycrow]

Originally posted by: Big_Boy
Date: December 02, 2009 at 07:07 PM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/shields-on-gsp-im-the-best-guy-he-hasn%E2%80%99t-faced.19905/

Besides GSP, Shields would be able to hold his own against ANY OTHER WW. Yup I said it. On the ground (BJJ) Shields is better than most of the WW with exception of Paulo Thiago. Not saying that this matters but Shields beat Fitch in a submission grappling years ago. So strength would not be a problem for him in the UFC WW class. For some reason people don't give shields any credit which I don't get.

 

[Nastycrow]

Originally posted by: Sedulous
Date: December 02, 2009 at 08:40 PM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/shields-on-gsp-im-the-best-guy-he-hasn%E2%80%99t-faced.19905/

Big_Boy said:
Besides GSP, Shields would be able to hold his own against ANY OTHER WW. Yup I said it. On the ground (BJJ) Shields is better than most of the WW with exception of Paulo Thiago. Not saying that this matters but Shields beat Fitch in a submission grappling years ago. So strength would not be a problem for him in the UFC WW class. For some reason people don't give shields any credit which I don't get.
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Wait so Fitch beat Paulo Thiago on the ground and Shields isn't better than Paulo Thiago but Shields is better than Fitch?

 

[Nastycrow]

Originally posted by: grapplethis
Date: December 02, 2009 at 08:55 PM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/shields-on-gsp-im-the-best-guy-he-hasn%E2%80%99t-faced.19905/

Big_Boy said:
Besides GSP, Shields would be able to hold his own against ANY OTHER WW. Yup I said it. On the ground (BJJ) Shields is better than most of the WW with exception of Paulo Thiago. Not saying that this matters but Shields beat Fitch in a submission grappling years ago. So strength would not be a problem for him in the UFC WW class. For some reason people don't give shields any credit which I don't get.
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i would agree with that. i do think he's better on the mat for mma purposes than ALL of the ufc's WW beside GSP. shields might have worse jits than paulo thiago in the purest sense, but when he gets on top of thiago i think he's got the jits not to get subbed. i think he's better on the mat then fitch. here is how i break it in terms of odds shields would win against some top UFC WW not named Georges. keep in mind, this is how I would set the odds, not how i think vegas will set the odds. all odds are in factors of five cuz i dont' want to think THAT hard. i didn't do daley cuz that fight already happened. same wit condit.
vs Koscheck: +225
vs fitch: +200
these two are because i think he won't take them down, and that he has inferior striking
thiago alves: +125
i don't THINK he could get alves down, but TBH i have always thought alves' TDD was overstated simply because it's mostly based on a fight against and injured matt hughes and a poorly conditioned josh koscheck who had a dumbass short training camp. so i wouldn't be surprised if jake took him down.
dan hardy: -325
paulo thiago: -250
hardy has mediocre wrestling at best (marcus davis got stuffed a few times, but he also took him down a few times.), and is a mere purple belt.jake would probably tap him in a round or two. thiago's not gettting tapped by shields, and but i think jake can win if he gets on top of thiago.
mike swick: -225
anthony johnson: -250
i am not sold on AJ as a good MMA wrestler. what happens the first time he faces a good wrestler? he gets taken down. and he loses. jake pursues the TD much more doggedly than kos was in that fight, so i think he would get him down. swick is fast, but he's not particularly powerful. i think jake would eat a few shots at the beginning of the round before taking him down and beating him up. no finish though, swick is solid.
i am neither a shields fan nor hater. i thought his fight with mayhem was a great fight (mostly because of mayhem though) in terms of grappling. but i don't love the guy. i'm a straight GSP NHer for sure, so i left him off. i wouldnt' call myself a fan of any of the guys that i think would beat shields, either. in fact, i f---ing hate koscheck. i think that is fairly unbiased analysis

 

[Nastycrow]

Originally posted by: Moranis
Date: December 02, 2009 at 11:16 PM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/shields-on-gsp-im-the-best-guy-he-hasn%E2%80%99t-faced.19905/

Sedulous said:
Big_Boy said:
Besides GSP, Shields would be able to hold his own against ANY OTHER WW. Yup I said it. On the ground (BJJ) Shields is better than most of the WW with exception of Paulo Thiago. Not saying that this matters but Shields beat Fitch in a submission grappling years ago. So strength would not be a problem for him in the UFC WW class. For some reason people don't give shields any credit which I don't get.
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Wait so Fitch beat Paulo Thiago on the ground and Shields isn't better than Paulo Thiago but Shields is better than Fitch?
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Shields is a much better wrestler then Thiago. He is bigger and stronger then Thiago.

 

[Nastycrow]

Originally posted by: Smasher170
Date: December 02, 2009 at 11:29 PM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/shields-on-gsp-im-the-best-guy-he-hasn%E2%80%99t-faced.19905/

When the Shields-Daley fight was announced, I said, I hope Shields gets KTFO. Same as when the Lawler fight was announced, and I was disappointed again. Point is, Shield is beast and is one of the worlds best WWs. Besides GSP and maybe Thiago, I'd have to take him over any other WW out there.
Mayhem is better than people give him credit for!

 

[Nastycrow]

Originally posted by: Big_Boy
Date: December 03, 2009 at 10:34 AM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/shields-on-gsp-im-the-best-guy-he-hasn%E2%80%99t-faced.19905/

Moranis said:
Sedulous said:
Big_Boy said:
Besides GSP, Shields would be able to hold his own against ANY OTHER WW. Yup I said it. On the ground (BJJ) Shields is better than most of the WW with exception of Paulo Thiago. Not saying that this matters but Shields beat Fitch in a submission grappling years ago. So strength would not be a problem for him in the UFC WW class. For some reason people don't give shields any credit which I don't get.
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Wait so Fitch beat Paulo Thiago on the ground and Shields isn't better than Paulo Thiago but Shields is better than Fitch?
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Shields is a much better wrestler then Thiago. He is bigger and stronger then Thiago.
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^^^
This........And Sedulous I'm not sure if you MISREAD what I put but i specifically said "On the ground
(BJJ)
Sheilds is better than most with the exception of Thiago. I'm talking Jits. Thiago has better Jujitsu.

 

[Nastycrow]

Originally posted by: Sedulous
Date: December 03, 2009 at 10:35 AM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/shields-on-gsp-im-the-best-guy-he-hasn%E2%80%99t-faced.19905/

Moranis said:
Sedulous said:
Big_Boy said:
Besides GSP, Shields would be able to hold his own against ANY OTHER WW. Yup I said it. On the ground (BJJ) Shields is better than most of the WW with exception of Paulo Thiago. Not saying that this matters but Shields beat Fitch in a submission grappling years ago. So strength would not be a problem for him in the UFC WW class. For some reason people don't give shields any credit which I don't get.
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Wait so Fitch beat Paulo Thiago on the ground and Shields isn't better than Paulo Thiago but Shields is better than Fitch?
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Shields is a much better wrestler then Thiago. He is bigger and stronger then Thiago.
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I'm just asking about how Big_Boy said Paulo Thiago is better on the ground than Shields but Fitch isn't even though Fitch tooled him on the ground.

 

[Nastycrow]

Originally posted by: Sedulous
Date: December 03, 2009 at 10:38 AM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/shields-on-gsp-im-the-best-guy-he-hasn%E2%80%99t-faced.19905/

Big_Boy said:
^^^
This........And Sedulous I'm not sure if you MISREAD what I put but i specifically said "On the ground
(BJJ)
Sheilds is better than most with the exception of Thiago. I'm talking Jits. Thiago has better Jujitsu.
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Right but then you alluded to Shields being better than Fitch even though Fitch beat Thiago on the ground. So I'm confused, either Fitch is better at grappling(today) than Shields or Thiago isn't as good as you say he is.(maybe you aren't talking about MMA grappling)

 

[Nastycrow]

Originally posted by: RearNakedSlam
Date: December 03, 2009 at 10:39 AM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/shields-on-gsp-im-the-best-guy-he-hasn%E2%80%99t-faced.19905/

Fitch hasn't been getting the respect he deserves since his loss to GSP. Fitch is still the #2 WW in the world.

 

[Nastycrow]

Originally posted by: Sedulous
Date: December 03, 2009 at 10:42 AM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/shields-on-gsp-im-the-best-guy-he-hasn%E2%80%99t-faced.19905/

RearNakedSlam said:
Fitch hasn't been getting the respect he deserves since his loss to GSP. Fitch is still the #2 WW in the world.
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This is what I think and I think Fitch is one of the best all around grapplers at WW. I mean he really dominated Paulo Thiago on the ground when they fought and Thiago is a BJJ and Judo blackbelt and Fitch hasn't even been a blackbelt for very long at all. Fitch is a beast.

 

[Nastycrow]

Originally posted by: Big_Boy
Date: December 03, 2009 at 10:44 AM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/shields-on-gsp-im-the-best-guy-he-hasn%E2%80%99t-faced.19905/

Sedulous said:
Big_Boy said:
^^^
This........And Sedulous I'm not sure if you MISREAD what I put but i specifically said "On the ground
(BJJ)
Sheilds is better than most with the exception of Thiago. I'm talking Jits. Thiago has better Jujitsu.
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Right but then you alluded to Shields being better than Fitch even though Fitch beat Thiago on the ground. So I'm confused, either Fitch is better at grappling(today) than Shields or Thiago isn't as good as you say he is.(maybe you aren't talking about MMA grappling)
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I only brought up Shields beating Fitch in a that grappling match because people were stating that Jake would be at a strength disadvantage. But if anyone was to watch that match he wasn't. I was talking about pure jits with Thiago and Shields. Thiago is a world champion.

 

[Nastycrow]

Originally posted by: Sedulous
Date: December 03, 2009 at 10:46 AM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/shields-on-gsp-im-the-best-guy-he-hasn%E2%80%99t-faced.19905/

Big_Boy said:
Sedulous said:
Big_Boy said:
^^^
This........And Sedulous I'm not sure if you MISREAD what I put but i specifically said "On the ground
(BJJ)
Sheilds is better than most with the exception of Thiago. I'm talking Jits. Thiago has better Jujitsu.
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Right but then you alluded to Shields being better than Fitch even though Fitch beat Thiago on the ground. So I'm confused, either Fitch is better at grappling(today) than Shields or Thiago isn't as good as you say he is.(maybe you aren't talking about MMA grappling)
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I only brought up Shields beating Fitch in a that grappling match because people were stating that Jake would be at a strength disadvantage. But if anyone was to watch that match he wasn't. I was talking about pure jits with Thiago and Shields. Thiago is a world champion.
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Which makes Fitch beating him on the ground even more impressive.

 

[Nastycrow]

Originally posted by: Johnny419
Date: December 03, 2009 at 11:08 AM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/shields-on-gsp-im-the-best-guy-he-hasn%E2%80%99t-faced.19905/

oakmantex said:
Johnny419 said:
Sedulous said:
I'm glad to see there is a general agreement about at least one thing in the MMA community. Jake Shields is overrated!!
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Very true, Shields gets a lot of love on the ranking lists even though he hasn't fought the handful of the guys in the UFC that could beat him pretty handily (Kos, GSP, Hughes, Fitch, and Alves for sure ---- Hardy, Swick, Condit and Johnson would be a lot for Shields to handle too.)
I agree with Meraz's statement about Diaz though. IMO Diaz would probably beat Shields in an MMA match (he has a clear striking advantage and would handle himself on the ground far better than Mayhem could) but they will never fight since they are training partners. GSP hasn't fought anyone with BJJ like Diaz's. Fitch has a solid guard and BJJ game, but his guard is much more defensive than offensive. Although BJ Penn has probably the best BJJ in the world at lightweight (some argue Aoki does, but I disagree), he is still a lightweight and wasn't strong enough to get to better positions to work submissions. Diaz's guard is pretty active when it needs to be and he is a much bigger guy than BJ, so perhaps he could be perceived as a threat on the ground to GSP.
Keep in mind that I don't think that Diaz would be a contender even if he came to the UFC, but he is the best guy GSP hasn't faced yet.
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Shields finished Condit, and Daley two fighters ranked in the UFC, he also beat Okami a top 5 fighter in the UFC. As well as 13 top 20-30 fighters and 6 top 10 fighters. Do some research before posting,
I mean posting a fighter Shields tapped out 13 months ago as someone to tough for him
. Ask GSP or Jon Fitch what they think.
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I said nothing about Daley (the guy Shields tapped 13 months ago) and the Condit fight was almost 4 years ago as well. Also everyone needs to chill on the Okami win, which was also about 4 years ago.
Bottom line is-------I just want to see Shields in the UFC to see if he can really do damage in the WW division or not.

 

[Nastycrow]

Originally posted by: Sedulous
Date: December 03, 2009 at 11:33 AM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/shields-on-gsp-im-the-best-guy-he-hasn%E2%80%99t-faced.19905/

Johnny419 said:
I said nothing about Daley (the guy Shields tapped 13 months ago) and the Condit fight was almost 4 years ago as well. Also everyone needs to chill on the Okami win, which was also about 4 years ago.
Bottom line is-------I just want to see Shields in the UFC to see if he can really do damage in the WW division or not.
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100% agree, I just want to see the speculation ended.

 

[Nastycrow]

Originally posted by: grapplethis
Date: December 03, 2009 at 12:36 PM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/shields-on-gsp-im-the-best-guy-he-hasn%E2%80%99t-faced.19905/

shields beat okami like machida beat shogun, like bisping beat hammill.

 

[Nastycrow]

Originally posted by: Moranis
Date: December 03, 2009 at 01:33 PM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/shields-on-gsp-im-the-best-guy-he-hasn%E2%80%99t-faced.19905/

Sedulous said:
I'm just asking about how Big_Boy said Paulo Thiago is better on the ground than Shields but Fitch isn't even though Fitch tooled him on the ground.
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He clearly identified that Thiago was better at BJJ, not necessarily all around ground fighting. Shields is better at all other aspects of ground fighting and is much bigger and stronger then Thiago.
Nothing he said was inconsistent.