The best discipline for MMA?

[Nastycrow]

Originally posted by: superfan_britain97
Date: April 20, 2011 at 03:59 AM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/the-best-discipline-for-mma.37953/

In modern MMA there is a wide range of Martial Arts/Fighting Styles, and at the moment, wrestling seems to be the dominant style, but it can be beaten, Demian Maia is the arguably the No1 Ju Jitsu practitioner in the game, Alastair Overeem won K-1, nuff said, Eddie Alvarez has the hands of a proffesional boxer, Brock Lesnar has the wrestling credentials to take down a grizzly bear, albeit hes not a stand up machine, Lyoto Machida is one of the only Mixed Martial Artists to embrace Karate, but is karate the new generation, or perhaps there is a new art on the rise, or will wrestling stay dominant for ever :shock:

 

[Nastycrow]

Originally posted by: feijaofan
Date: April 20, 2011 at 05:26 AM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/the-best-discipline-for-mma.37953/

IMO the best discipline is "cardio". The next best would be "MMA" itself; everything, well rounded-ness. But an argument can made for each individual discipline after that. It depends if we're talking effective damage or effective point-scoring, or effective defense. Striking (boxing/karate/MT) wins on effective damage but doesn't win on defense long term and gets buried under wrestling in terms of point-scoring. So with wrestling having scoring covered, it also wins big on defense, too. JJ gets right to the damage like striking, but will rack up points if the finish doesn't come, and provides a (to a slightly lesser degree than wrestling because td's) safety net too. So I can see an argument for JJ being the "best" discipline as an initial base...
If i had to personally choose one, I wrestled a bit in high school, I'd stick with my roots...but again if I
really
had to choose, I'd be at 'em all, with cardio as a discipline of fighting (to get a bit technical, ik) residing on top.

 

[Nastycrow]

Originally posted by: armbarandgrill
Date: April 20, 2011 at 07:48 AM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/the-best-discipline-for-mma.37953/

the key seems to be athleticism. it just so happens most wrestlers come into mma with a strong athletic background.
strikers might fuel the bloodlust gang, but even top level strikers end up with only a strikers chance when facing highly athletic wrestlers. it also seems acrobatic skills are paying off for people like pettis and jones, though i see that style getting countered eventually, just like wrestling will be.
bottom line, if you're not athletic and simply rely on the brawler approach in today's mma, you career will be short and peppered with losses.

 

[Nastycrow]

Originally posted by: PsychoIcon
Date: April 20, 2011 at 08:01 AM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/the-best-discipline-for-mma.37953/

1. intelligence - if you have that, the other stuff will fall into place...
2. Hard Worker - Will give you cardio
3. Skill - No matter how athletic you are skill beats strength. Fitch couldnt finish bjpenn.
If you have that then your smart enough to know that all the other stuff is important.

 

[Nastycrow]

Originally posted by: superfan_britain97
Date: April 20, 2011 at 08:12 AM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/the-best-discipline-for-mma.37953/

PsychoIcon said:
1. intelligence - if you have that, the other stuff will fall into place...
2. Hard Worker - Will give you cardio
3. Skill - No matter how athletic you are skill beats strength. Fitch couldnt finish bjpenn.
If you have that then your smart enough to know that all the other stuff is important.
Click to expand...
all of thats obvioulsly important, but if it was back to the freakshow days, what art would yo bet on

 

[Nastycrow]

Originally posted by: residency
Date: April 20, 2011 at 08:31 AM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/the-best-discipline-for-mma.37953/

superfan_britain97 said:
PsychoIcon said:
1. intelligence - if you have that, the other stuff will fall into place...
2. Hard Worker - Will give you cardio
3. Skill - No matter how athletic you are skill beats strength. Fitch couldnt finish bjpenn.
If you have that then your smart enough to know that all the other stuff is important.
Click to expand...
all of thats obvioulsly important, but if it was back to the freakshow days, what art would yo bet on
Click to expand...
If it was back to the freakshow days, I'd go with BJJ again as nobody would have a clue what it is.
If it were the freakshow days but the skill level was the same as it was today, I'd go with whoever has the best fusion of skill and size.

 

[Nastycrow]

Originally posted by: GOODNIGHTIRENE
Date: April 20, 2011 at 11:31 AM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/the-best-discipline-for-mma.37953/

wrestling. end of story

 

[Nastycrow]

Originally posted by: 68Whiskey
Date: April 20, 2011 at 12:18 PM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/the-best-discipline-for-mma.37953/

135:Cruz, Faber, Jorgenson, Benevidez
145:Mendes, Brown, Warren
155:Edgar, Manard, Sherk, Miller,
170:Fitch, Koscheck, Ellenberger, Story, Askren,Hendricks, Hughes
185: Sonnen, Okami
205:Jones, Rashad, Bader, Rampage
265:Cain, Lesnar, Carwin, Conrad
Highly skilled amateur wrestlers

 

[Nastycrow]

Originally posted by: Bofauxgalicious
Date: April 20, 2011 at 12:21 PM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/the-best-discipline-for-mma.37953/

In before the bjj vs wrestling arguments begin.
But yeah, its amateur wrestling.

 

[Nastycrow]

Originally posted by: REDRUM
Date: April 20, 2011 at 12:34 PM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/the-best-discipline-for-mma.37953/

anything that Steven Seagal trains in

 

[Nastycrow]

Originally posted by: bjj_rage
Date: April 20, 2011 at 12:36 PM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/the-best-discipline-for-mma.37953/

68Whiskey said:
135:Cruz, Faber, Jorgenson, Benevidez
(Torres)
145:Mendes, Brown, Warren
(aldo)
155:Edgar, Manard, Sherk, Miller,
(BJ, Oliveira, Dunham, Miller)
170:Fitch, Koscheck, Ellenberger, Story, Askren,Hendricks, Hughes
(GSP (goes for both sides), Diaz, Thiago Alves)
185: Sonnen, Okami
(Anderson Silva, Vitor Belfort, Nate, Maia, Jacare)
205:Jones, Rashad, Bader, Rampage (Shogun, Roger)
265:Cain, Lesnar, Carwin, Conrad (Werdum, Big Foot, Junior)
Highly skilled amateur wrestlers
Click to expand...
Thing is, you have take in count the ammount of American wrestlers there is in the UFC/SF... The UFC is an american based ORG, which feeds mostly from well, Americans, who most of them have wrestling based... Take the UFC to brazil, and see how many wrestlers you have there dominating the sport... Wrestling is a great base, as a matter of fact, I think its the best base to enter MMA, the rules favores them, the guys entering MMA are freak athletes, reason why the can pick up other arts much faster than other fighters... But art vs art... I think bjj is superior (of course I might be kind of bias here lol) what I have no doubt of, is than grappling > striking.

 

[Nastycrow]

Originally posted by: Sapper
Date: April 20, 2011 at 12:44 PM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/the-best-discipline-for-mma.37953/

Right now it seems that a good wrestling base is the best for young fighters. Wrestling provides a good start for JJ or even Judo for start on a sub game. We have seen a lot of wrestlers learn to be very good strikers and submission practitioners. This is a hard question to answer though because there will be examples of almost all disciplines having a champ in one division or at lest a top ten fighter at one point and time. But IMO wrestling is the best base we have seen. One thing is for sure you need to know wrestling for at a minim TDD, best example of that I think is Liddell. Not a real wrestler but had great TDD, and was able to keep the fight where he wanted.
I think the future of the sport will be with young men who start to either wrestler or take JJ or Judo at a young age, then at the same time or a short while later start to learn striking. So in all sense they will have always been in MMA. The only fighter now that comes to mind with this is Lyoto Machida he was doing Shotokan karate at a young age, but also learning BJJ at the same time.

 

[Nastycrow]

Originally posted by: Bofauxgalicious
Date: April 20, 2011 at 12:46 PM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/the-best-discipline-for-mma.37953/

If one mma fighter knew only wrestling, and one knew only bjj, the jitz guy would win. But a wrestler with decent sub defense beats a jiujitsu guy with decent wrestling defense.

 

[Nastycrow]

Originally posted by: REDRUM
Date: April 20, 2011 at 12:47 PM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/the-best-discipline-for-mma.37953/

bjj_rage said:
68Whiskey said:
135:Cruz, Faber, Jorgenson, Benevidez
(Torres)
145:Mendes, Brown, Warren
(aldo)
155:Edgar, Manard, Sherk, Miller,
(BJ, Oliveira, Dunham, Miller)
170:Fitch, Koscheck, Ellenberger, Story, Askren,Hendricks, Hughes
(GSP (goes for both sides), Diaz, Thiago Alves)
185: Sonnen, Okami
(Anderson Silva, Vitor Belfort, Nate, Maia, Jacare)
205:Jones, Rashad, Bader, Rampage (Shogun, Roger)
265:Cain, Lesnar, Carwin, Conrad (Werdum, Big Foot, Junior)
Highly skilled amateur wrestlers
Click to expand...
Thing is, you have take in count the amount of American wrestlers there is in the UFC/SF... The UFC is an American based ORG, which feeds mostly from well, Americans, who most of them have wrestling based... Take the UFC to Brazil, and see how many wrestlers you have there dominating the sport... Wrestling is a great base, as a matter of fact, I think its the best base to enter MMA, the rules favors them, the guys entering MMA are freak athletes, reason why the can pick up other arts much faster than other fighters... But art vs art... I think bjj is superior (of course I might be kind of bias here lol) what I have no doubt of, is than grappling > striking.
Click to expand...
I agree... And while the debate can go on for pages and pages.. I look at it like this... The wrestling base is the best base IF and only IF you have at the very least a good understanding of defending against BJJ (so does that mean BJJ is more important)... So its almost like the egg before the chicken or chicken before the egg question.. Is that base really the "best" if by itself has a major defensive flaw (if you've never defended against a BJJ submission your losing a limb or going to Zzz)? I will sadly admit that in today's mma... A long base of American Wrestling + a few years (2 maybe) of BJJ training is BETTER than a long base of BJJ training + a little knowledge of American wrestling...
Maybe a better question is ... Whats worse for your health, to have zero knowledge in American Wrestling or have zero knowledge of BJJ ??? To me the only answer to this question is having zero knowledge of BJJ is worse for your health.

 

[Nastycrow]

Originally posted by: Paul_UK
Date: April 20, 2011 at 12:49 PM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/the-best-discipline-for-mma.37953/

No such thing as a best discipline, they're all equally important. However, the best base to start fro is wrestling, however without learning other disciplines you won't get very far.

 

[Nastycrow]

Originally posted by: abc0331
Date: April 20, 2011 at 01:36 PM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/the-best-discipline-for-mma.37953/

Something every Brit. needs to learn. No debate just concede because accepting this fact would advance U.K martial arts to the 20th century.
Wrestling is key. Either offensively or defensely.
Standing up and punching is secondary to controling where the fight takes place.

 

[Nastycrow]

Originally posted by: Paul_UK
Date: April 20, 2011 at 02:13 PM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/the-best-discipline-for-mma.37953/

abc0331 said:
Something every Brit. needs to learn. No debate just concede because accepting this fact would advance U.K martial arts to the 20th century.
Wrestling is key. Either offensively or defensely.
Standing up and punching is secondary to controling where the fight takes place.
Click to expand...
Yeah, because British fighters refuse to ever train any wrestling :?
We don't have the same wrestling in school/college here, and even people that don't train in wrestling in America probably know a bit about it, in Britain it's virtually non existent. When people do decide to train in MMA, there are very few wrestling coaches near the level that you get in the States or Canada.

 

[Nastycrow]

Originally posted by: Thai
Date: April 20, 2011 at 02:17 PM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/the-best-discipline-for-mma.37953/

Sapper said:
I think the future of the sport will be with young men who start to either wrestler or take JJ or Judo at a young age, then at the same time or a short while later start to learn striking. So in all sense they will have always been in MMA. The only fighter now that comes to mind with this is Lyoto Machida he was doing Shotokan karate at a young age, but also learning BJJ at the same time.
Click to expand...
That's Jose Aldo, bjj since he was a kid, but also punching bags all day cuz he lived in the gym for a while. Turns out he became such a monster striker that people barelly know his world class ground game.
Its one way to become a young champ.
There are other ways, like being born with long limbs and....................

 

[Nastycrow]

Originally posted by: abc0331
Date: April 20, 2011 at 02:29 PM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/the-best-discipline-for-mma.37953/

YPG said:
abc0331 said:
Something every Brit. needs to learn. No debate just concede because accepting this fact would advance U.K martial arts to the 20th century.
Wrestling is key. Either offensively or defensely.
Standing up and punching is secondary to controling where the fight takes place.
Click to expand...
Yeah, because British fighters refuse to ever train any wrestling :?
We don't have the same wrestling in school/college here, and even people that don't train in wrestling in America probably know a bit about it, in Britain it's virtually non existent. When people do decide to train in MMA, there are very few wrestling coaches near the level that you get in the States or Canada.
Click to expand...
Which does nothing but emphasize my point.
It is not the fact that they refuse...well some do, cough***Dan Hard**cough, but the fact that there is no collegate system of wrestling drastically hastens Brits in a sport that is dominated by wrestlers both from the United States, but Brazil and Japan. The faster people in the U.K. learn that boxing is not as effective as wrestling the faster they will start evovling as fighters, and the faster they will have a champion in the top organizations.

 

[Nastycrow]

Originally posted by: Paul_UK
Date: April 20, 2011 at 02:44 PM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/the-best-discipline-for-mma.37953/

abc0331 said:
YPG said:
Yeah, because British fighters refuse to ever train any wrestling :?
We don't have the same wrestling in school/college here, and even people that don't train in wrestling in America probably know a bit about it, in Britain it's virtually non existent. When people do decide to train in MMA, there are very few wrestling coaches near the level that you get in the States or Canada.
Click to expand...
Which does nothing but emphasize my point.
It is not the fact that they refuse...well some do, cough***Dan Hard**cough, but the fact that there is no collegate system of wrestling drastically hastens Brits in a sport that is dominated by wrestlers both from the United States, but Brazil and Japan. The faster people in the U.K. learn that boxing is not as effective as wrestling the faster they will start evovling as fighters, and the faster they will have a champion in the top organizations.
Click to expand...
I was being sarcastic. Of course British fighters train in wrestling. You're an idiot if you think otherwise (no offence). You claim Hardy doesn't, but after the GSP fight he spent about 4 months in the USA working on his wrestling, but that wasn't enough to stop Johnson, who has been wrestling most of his life.
You acknowledge that Britain has no college wrestling system then say they have to learn that boxing isn't as effective as wrestling. British fighters do realise that, but we don't have the chance to wrestle in high school or college. The only time that a career in MMA becomes viable for someone in the UK is after school, by which point a lot of Americans will have already been wrestling for many years. And as I said before, there are not the same level of coaches in the UK, and people can't go over to the States any time they want to learn wrestling.
Lets consider this completely hypothetical situation. I've been boxing since the age of 10. You've never boxed. I've been training with Freddie Roach since I was 16. We're now both in our mid 20s and about to compete in a boxing match. You have 3 months to prepare, with a local gym coach. Who wins?
Now translate that into wrestling in MMA.
Learning wrestling is not the important thing for British fighter, if someone like GSP, Kos or Fitch wants to take you down, they're going to. Someone with a few years training will not stop someone with a lifetime of training in wrestling. What British fighters need to focus on is jiu jitsu, getting up off their back and submissions off their back.
Plus, the whole 'British fighters have no wrestling' is just as true as saying "every American is obese". (Credit to someone else on MMAJunkie for that, can't remember who it was). Sure, it's not at a particularly high level, but just because a few British fighters have done poor against excellent wrestlers (Hardy Vs GSP/Rumble, Daley Vs Kos) some ignorant people tend to think that every British fighter is a horrible wrestler.