UK Discussion for UK People Only

Apparently net immigration is way down. How true? IDK. I'm sure that doesn't measure illegal immigration and its effects though. I'm not a proponent of mass immigration. I'm also not an expert in it and I don't have any good solutions to it either. Japan is experiencing a wave of totally necessary immigration and it seems to be going well. I hope they don't put immigrants in specific places or pander to their language and customs TBH. These seem like recipes for resentment, hatred and failure to assimilate.
Here is a summary of what the current Labour government would list as their achievements. It is copied and pasted from an artice in the Guardian. Yes, UK kinda sucks and so does every administration we've had since Michael Foot, but I don't think this government is all bad. I think they at least have/had a better shot at solving the massive problems facing the UK than those completely corrupt and devoid of any desire to do better Tories FS.
In fact, this Labour government has ruined my pension, but I kind of get why so I'm not madd about it. It is the biggest portion of public welfare spending by miles and so who would you want to take money from first? Foreign residents who have no intention of returning seem a good idea. I also believe this gov't wants to partly privatise the NHS, which is necessary. It's failing. I am not kken on the way they caved in to striking doctors and overpaid train workers though. Mainly the train workers. That was nuts to me, but I guess they needed to buy time whilst they figure out how to replace those ingrates with AI.

recap: in under two years Labour has ended the two-child benefit cap, projected to take 450,000 children out of poverty, provided breakfast clubsfor primary schoolchildren in England, made 500,000 extra children in England eligible for free school meals. Free nurseries liberate families to work, with a crucial early years educational boost and up to 1,000 new Best Start family hubs in England. The young have come first, with arts back on the curriculum, a lost youth service restarted with 250 centres to be built or refurbished in England – and new further education colleges with extra construction courses and apprenticeships. This is Labour turf; it’s not nearly enough, but it’s a start at tackling neglected training for the half of young people in England not bound for higher education. British Steel is set to be nationalised, alongside train operators, with rail fares frozen in England and pay-per-mile road pricing for all electric cars by 2028.

Business and its press protest at a real living wage raised by 6.7%, plus a 4.1% increase for the minimum wage, shifting power towards working rights that ends zero-hours contracts and beefs up union recruiting. Rightly the national insurance increase to raise £25bn fell on employers not workers. The Renters’ Rights Act protects 11 million people in England from no-fault evictions. Net migration plummeted by 78%. Green energy surges aheadwith priority investment. Today’s NHS waiting-list figures show the fastest fall in 16 years, aided by more than 2,000 extra GPs and 170 new community diagnostic centres.

No space here for everything, but Starmer’s government has done the good that only Labour governments do. Enough? No, but it’s dangerously frivolous to dismiss its advances. How unjust that only 26% feel that Starmer has brought any change compared to its Conservative predecessors; 60% feel there’s been little to no change. That’s plain wrong.
Alright Riz, I'll play a round. I'm going full Bucky on your ass:

Ok, now let's present the other side of the argument just for fun, because fellating framing like this annoys me greatly (I know it's not you):

-There are 12.7 million children in Britain, with an estimated 4 million living in poverty. Even if their projections are correct, they've only moved the ~10%. Which is not noticeable improvement, and that's best case.

AND the two child benefit cap was estimated to save £3.6 billion per year. Even if we go with the conservative £2.5 billion, that's still £5 billion to "lift" 450,000 kids out of poverty. That is not what I would call an efficient ROI for taxpayer funds.

While the arts are important sure, should they REALLY be the priority in this day and age? With the ever-quickening pace of life and technology, I would have liked to see something more pragmatic if I were over there. Some sort of vocational training would be nice but, hell, basic fucking life skills that don't involve a screen in front of your face like I'm typing on now would be if immense value. Its like when my old condo building was found to have major structural issues, and they spent the money on a new paint job for the building. I mean, great, it did need it but I think there are more pressing concerns to get ahead of first.

Don't even get me started on nationalizing British Steel. Ok, you (reminder, not you Riz, the author of the puff piece you posted) want to say it's a national security issue and worth eating the cost, I'm listening and can get behind that. But do not paint this as a net positive all the way around. There are big taxpayer costs to propping this up, and there is high risk for the creation of a stagnant, tax payer funded, money drain of a monopoly in perpetuity. National security, you gotta bite the bullet, sure, but are we really going to cheer a poor investment of national necessity?

Hey, the real living wage hike is nice, but the UK is still playing catch-up from eating the COVID era inflation to the face pretty hard. They're still digging out. So while it's improving, workers lives have not yet improved. You don't really feel good about digging out of the hole, until you're actually out of the hole.

And while the Renters Rights Acts have some positives for tenants sure, there's no mention of the downsides. As we see anywhere increased government regulation enters renting and housing, landlords start selling instead of dealing with the increased government crap, scarcity goes up, prices follow, and rent is already the biggest expense an average individual in the UK has. Which, ironically, hits the people most affected by the real living wage increase they were just bandying about. Because the most likely landlords to sell are catering to the lower socio-economic classes, driving scarcity and prices, up the most in that group. So you can see how Labour has punched a hole in the very bucket they were just trying to fill.

And the NHS is the same thingas the real living wage increase. Yes theyve shown improvement in wait time percentage, but cmon. They were at 59% of patients waiting less than 18 weeks in early 2025 and they're at 66% now. Their stated target is 92%. They haven't met that target since 2015. .
 
Alright Riz, I'll play a round. I'm going full Bucky on your ass:

Ok, now let's present the other side of the argument just for fun, because fellating framing like this annoys me greatly (I know it's not you):

-There are 12.7 million children in Britain, with an estimated 4 million living in poverty. Even if their projections are correct, they've only moved the ~10%. Which is not noticeable improvement, and that's best case.

AND the two child benefit cap was estimated to save £3.6 billion per year. Even if we go with the conservative £2.5 billion, that's still £5 billion to "lift" 450,000 kids out of poverty. That is not what I would call an efficient ROI for taxpayer funds.

While the arts are important sure, should they REALLY be the priority in this day and age? With the ever-quickening pace of life and technology, I would have liked to see something more pragmatic if I were over there. Some sort of vocational training would be nice but, hell, basic fucking life skills that don't involve a screen in front of your face like I'm typing on now would be if immense value. Its like when my old condo building was found to have major structural issues, and they spent the money on a new paint job for the building. I mean, great, it did need it but I think there are more pressing concerns to get ahead of first.

Don't even get me started on nationalizing British Steel. Ok, you (reminder, not you Riz, the author of the puff piece you posted) want to say it's a national security issue and worth eating the cost, I'm listening and can get behind that. But do not paint this as a net positive all the way around. There are big taxpayer costs to propping this up, and there is high risk for the creation of a stagnant, tax payer funded, money drain of a monopoly in perpetuity. National security, you gotta bite the bullet, sure, but are we really going to cheer a poor investment of national necessity?

Hey, the real living wage hike is nice, but the UK is still playing catch-up from eating the COVID era inflation to the face pretty hard. They're still digging out. So while it's improving, workers lives have not yet improved. You don't really feel good about digging out of the hole, until you're actually out of the hole.

And while the Renters Rights Acts have some positives for tenants sure, there's no mention of the downsides. As we see anywhere increased government regulation enters renting and housing, landlords start selling instead of dealing with the increased government crap, scarcity goes up, prices follow, and rent is already the biggest expense an average individual in the UK has. Which, ironically, hits the people most affected by the real living wage increase they were just bandying about. Because the most likely landlords to sell are catering to the lower socio-economic classes, driving scarcity and prices, up the most in that group. So you can see how Labour has punched a hole in the very bucket they were just trying to fill.

And the NHS is the same thingas the real living wage increase. Yes theyve shown improvement in wait time percentage, but cmon. They were at 59% of patients waiting less than 18 weeks in early 2025 and they're at 66% now. Their stated target is 92%. They haven't met that target since .
So again, you don't get credit for making progress while you're still in the hole. (Can't wait to see my fellow Yanks come in here when they see that 18 week stat. It's why I'll always prefer privatized health care. Yep, it costs a lot, but in our system the profit motive dictates keeping us alive. But that's another conversation).

In conclusion, this Yank with a bong, Google, insomnia, and a dumb fucking brain that is prone to spontaneous fucking hyper fixation had a fun joyride looking into all of this. But from my little foray across the pond, I'd say I can really see where the 60% seeing little to no change is coming from. Improvements have been seen, but costs and taxes look like they're going up, and it could be easily argued that the change being seen is coming very inefficiently for what it's costing.

"How unjust it is..." "That is plain wrong..." Fuck you (again, not YOU Riz, the article writer from El Guardino). Pretentious twat. Stuff this puff piece of your ass.

(Suck on the length of my post @osubuckeye4 !!! How long you gonna let me have the longest post on the new forum?!? It's my house now dawg)
 
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Reactions: ABB
So again, you don't get credit for making progress while you're still in the hole. (Can't wait to see my fellow Yanks come in here when they see that 18 week stat. It's why I'll always prefer privatized health care. Yep, it costs a lot, but in our system the profit motive dictates keeping us alive. But that's another conversation).

In conclusion, this Yank with a bong, Google, insomnia, and a dumb fucking brain that is prone to spontaneous fucking hyper fixation had a fun joyride looking into all of this. But from my little foray across the pond, I'd say I can really see where the 60% seeing little to no change is coming from. Improvements have been seen, but costs and taxes look like they're going up, and it could be easily argued that the change being seen is coming very inefficiently for what it's costing.

"How unjust it is..." "That is plain wrong..." Fuck you (again, not YOU Riz, the article writer from El Guardino). Pretentious twat. Stuff this puff piece of your ass.

(Suck on the length of my post @osubuckeye4 !!! How long you gonna let me have the longest post on the new forum?!? It's my house now dawg)

TLDR: Riz is a cuck.
 
Alright Riz, I'll play a round. I'm going full Bucky on your ass:

Ok, now let's present the other side of the argument just for fun, because fellating framing like this annoys me greatly (I know it's not you):

-There are 12.7 million children in Britain, with an estimated 4 million living in poverty. Even if their projections are correct, they've only moved the ~10%. Which is not noticeable improvement, and that's best case.

AND the two child benefit cap was estimated to save £3.6 billion per year. Even if we go with the conservative £2.5 billion, that's still £5 billion to "lift" 450,000 kids out of poverty. That is not what I would call an efficient ROI for taxpayer funds.

While the arts are important sure, should they REALLY be the priority in this day and age? With the ever-quickening pace of life and technology, I would have liked to see something more pragmatic if I were over there. Some sort of vocational training would be nice but, hell, basic fucking life skills that don't involve a screen in front of your face like I'm typing on now would be if immense value. Its like when my old condo building was found to have major structural issues, and they spent the money on a new paint job for the building. I mean, great, it did need it but I think there are more pressing concerns to get ahead of first.

Don't even get me started on nationalizing British Steel. Ok, you (reminder, not you Riz, the author of the puff piece you posted) want to say it's a national security issue and worth eating the cost, I'm listening and can get behind that. But do not paint this as a net positive all the way around. There are big taxpayer costs to propping this up, and there is high risk for the creation of a stagnant, tax payer funded, money drain of a monopoly in perpetuity. National security, you gotta bite the bullet, sure, but are we really going to cheer a poor investment of national necessity?

Hey, the real living wage hike is nice, but the UK is still playing catch-up from eating the COVID era inflation to the face pretty hard. They're still digging out. So while it's improving, workers lives have not yet improved. You don't really feel good about digging out of the hole, until you're actually out of the hole.

And while the Renters Rights Acts have some positives for tenants sure, there's no mention of the downsides. As we see anywhere increased government regulation enters renting and housing, landlords start selling instead of dealing with the increased government crap, scarcity goes up, prices follow, and rent is already the biggest expense an average individual in the UK has. Which, ironically, hits the people most affected by the real living wage increase they were just bandying about. Because the most likely landlords to sell are catering to the lower socio-economic classes, driving scarcity and prices, up the most in that group. So you can see how Labour has punched a hole in the very bucket they were just trying to fill.

And the NHS is the same thingas the real living wage increase. Yes theyve shown improvement in wait time percentage, but cmon. They were at 59% of patients waiting less than 18 weeks in early 2025 and they're at 66% now. Their stated target is 92%. They haven't met that target since 2015. .
All great points and I can get with them FS. Apart from the arts part. That is a long conversation though and involves much more than cost benefit analysis for me.
Nothing that riles me in your reply though at all.
 
Alright Riz, I'll play a round. I'm going full Bucky on your ass:

Ok, now let's present the other side of the argument just for fun, because fellating framing like this annoys me greatly (I know it's not you):

-There are 12.7 million children in Britain, with an estimated 4 million living in poverty. Even if their projections are correct, they've only moved the ~10%. Which is not noticeable improvement, and that's best case.

AND the two child benefit cap was estimated to save £3.6 billion per year. Even if we go with the conservative £2.5 billion, that's still £5 billion to "lift" 450,000 kids out of poverty. That is not what I would call an efficient ROI for taxpayer funds.

While the arts are important sure, should they REALLY be the priority in this day and age? With the ever-quickening pace of life and technology, I would have liked to see something more pragmatic if I were over there. Some sort of vocational training would be nice but, hell, basic fucking life skills that don't involve a screen in front of your face like I'm typing on now would be if immense value. Its like when my old condo building was found to have major structural issues, and they spent the money on a new paint job for the building. I mean, great, it did need it but I think there are more pressing concerns to get ahead of first.

Don't even get me started on nationalizing British Steel. Ok, you (reminder, not you Riz, the author of the puff piece you posted) want to say it's a national security issue and worth eating the cost, I'm listening and can get behind that. But do not paint this as a net positive all the way around. There are big taxpayer costs to propping this up, and there is high risk for the creation of a stagnant, tax payer funded, money drain of a monopoly in perpetuity. National security, you gotta bite the bullet, sure, but are we really going to cheer a poor investment of national necessity?

Hey, the real living wage hike is nice, but the UK is still playing catch-up from eating the COVID era inflation to the face pretty hard. They're still digging out. So while it's improving, workers lives have not yet improved. You don't really feel good about digging out of the hole, until you're actually out of the hole.

And while the Renters Rights Acts have some positives for tenants sure, there's no mention of the downsides. As we see anywhere increased government regulation enters renting and housing, landlords start selling instead of dealing with the increased government crap, scarcity goes up, prices follow, and rent is already the biggest expense an average individual in the UK has. Which, ironically, hits the people most affected by the real living wage increase they were just bandying about. Because the most likely landlords to sell are catering to the lower socio-economic classes, driving scarcity and prices, up the most in that group. So you can see how Labour has punched a hole in the very bucket they were just trying to fill.

And the NHS is the same thingas the real living wage increase. Yes theyve shown improvement in wait time percentage, but cmon. They were at 59% of patients waiting less than 18 weeks in early 2025 and they're at 66% now. Their stated target is 92%. They haven't met that target since 2015. .
As someone who actually lives in the UK I feel I can have a realistic say on this one.

Firstly renters rights act. There are pros and cons, pro being renters have longer to find a new place and feel more secure and wont experience unexpected increases, great. Cons, and these are big in my opinion, landlords have fewer rights and with the exception of the professional career landlords and companies many will therefore be put off renting properties out meaning there are fewer properties on the market to rent. Supply and demand suggests already high prices will increase. Real world examples would be both myself and my friend who were considering moving in the next 12 months and renting our existing homes out. Since the change I have decided to stay put and she has decided to sell, I imagine there will be many cases of this up and down the UK. There is a push to build more houses in the UK and I am sceptical that these are needed. What is more likely needed is affordable housing ( both to rent and buy ) and more social housing as a lot was lost during the right to buy era, indeed my current house is ex council

The NHS varies around the country and depending on the ailment. A and E is on its arse and needs help fast, it is a bottle neck. GP appointments have definitely improved, last time I requested one I was seen the same day and can get an appointment within 2 weeks for non urgent things. Cancer treatments seem to be reasonably efficient too, I have a few friends going through treatment currently and they have been reassured and happy with the service they have had, we are lucky we have 2 specialist cancer hospitals within an hour of us

Increasing the living wage is great for those that were on min wage, however, it is not great for unemployment as the cost to employers has increased as national insurance has also gone up, this means companies are cutting back on recruitment and overtime where they can

The Iraq war has had quite an effect, for me personally I have seen food costs increase, fuel costs increase and both have occasional shortages. Working in agriculture I have also seen the impact it has had there which is worrying for future food supply. The uncertainty has also really slowed the housing market down

On a positive note I read yesterday that our economy has grown slightly and by more than expected https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/cx21nlg7eylt

I think this is my longest ever post
 
As someone who actually lives in the UK I feel I can have a realistic say on this one.

Firstly renters rights act. There are pros and cons, pro being renters have longer to find a new place and feel more secure and wont experience unexpected increases, great. Cons, and these are big in my opinion, landlords have fewer rights and with the exception of the professional career landlords and companies many will therefore be put off renting properties out meaning there are fewer properties on the market to rent. Supply and demand suggests already high prices will increase. Real world examples would be both myself and my friend who were considering moving in the next 12 months and renting our existing homes out. Since the change I have decided to stay put and she has decided to sell, I imagine there will be many cases of this up and down the UK. There is a push to build more houses in the UK and I am sceptical that these are needed. What is more likely needed is affordable housing ( both to rent and buy ) and more social housing as a lot was lost during the right to buy era, indeed my current house is ex council

The NHS varies around the country and depending on the ailment. A and E is on its arse and needs help fast, it is a bottle neck. GP appointments have definitely improved, last time I requested one I was seen the same day and can get an appointment within 2 weeks for non urgent things. Cancer treatments seem to be reasonably efficient too, I have a few friends going through treatment currently and they have been reassured and happy with the service they have had, we are lucky we have 2 specialist cancer hospitals within an hour of us

Increasing the living wage is great for those that were on min wage, however, it is not great for unemployment as the cost to employers has increased as national insurance has also gone up, this means companies are cutting back on recruitment and overtime where they can

The Iraq war has had quite an effect, for me personally I have seen food costs increase, fuel costs increase and both have occasional shortages. Working in agriculture I have also seen the impact it has had there which is worrying for future food supply. The uncertainty has also really slowed the housing market down

On a positive note I read yesterday that our economy has grown slightly and by more than expected https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/cx21nlg7eylt

I think this is my longest ever post
Agreed about the living wage FS. I always face palm at minimum wage rises etc.
Just not a fan of such measures at all. Even here where it doesn’t reduce employment at all, it certainly fuels inflation by giving young kids more disposable income. It’s not good for the middle classes.
NHS though. Fundamentally broken system imo. GP being the base of it is nuts and that most of them see no benefit in working beyond 55 is lamentable.
I can visit a specialist doctor anytime of day with no appointment and then visit another one if I doubt the first one. It costs me less than 50 pounds to get an MRI and I can get it within a week. The list could go on and on.
UK should be like this if you look at how much they spend per capita, and they are only not like this due to the fear all parties have of announcing public private partnerships as policy during an election campaign (they’d lose FS) and the fear of losing office during an administration because they couldn’t implement it quickly enough for folks to see how great it can work.
On the whole though, great to read some very keenly thought out posts from you and Crete.
I’m not big into politics but I’m interested in chatting about stuff if I see these type of posts.
 
Agreed about the living wage FS. I always face palm at minimum wage rises etc.
Just not a fan of such measures at all. Even here where it doesn’t reduce employment at all, it certainly fuels inflation by giving young kids more disposable income. It’s not good for the middle classes.
NHS though. Fundamentally broken system imo. GP being the base of it is nuts and that most of them see no benefit in working beyond 55 is lamentable.
I can visit a specialist doctor anytime of day with no appointment and then visit another one if I doubt the first one. It costs me less than 50 pounds to get an MRI and I can get it within a week. The list could go on and on.
UK should be like this if you look at how much they spend per capita, and they are only not like this due to the fear all parties have of announcing public private partnerships as policy during an election campaign (they’d lose FS) and the fear of losing office during an administration because they couldn’t implement it quickly enough for folks to see how great it can work.
On the whole though, great to read some very keenly thought out posts from you and Crete.
I’m not big into politics but I’m interested in chatting about stuff if I see these type of posts.
There is something called the right to choose in the NHS. I dont know the exact details as I havent used it but the laymans TLDR version of it is that you can get a second opinion from a different GP and you can choose to have treatment through a trust other than your local one. The guy I was seeing last summer was on a several months wait list for an adhd diagnosis but he also had the option to go with a neighbouring health trust and get seen faster ( which he did )

The NHS are already outsourcing some work in order to reduce wait times. I have a few friends/ family who have had hip or knee replacements done at private hospitals but at the cost of the NHS in the last few years

I watched a TV series called New Amsterdam a couple of years ago with Ryan Eggold in, the focus on health care payments was interesting to me as a non American
 
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There is something called the right to choose in the NHS. I dont know the exact details as I havent used it but the laymans TLDR version of it is that you can get a second opinion from a different GP and you can choose to have treatment through a trust other than your local one. The guy I was seeing last summer was on a several months wait list for an adhd diagnosis but he also had the option to go with a neighbouring health trust and get seen faster ( which he did )

The NHS are already outsourcing some work in order to reduce wait times. I have a few friends/ family who have had hip or knee replacements done at private hospitals but at the cost of the NHS in the last few years
Good to hear. Still I’d love UK people and especially health policy makers to come here and see how it can be done honestly 10X better and for the same public cost.
It is very eye opening.
I have one foot in the medical world through teaching and consulting, also family who work as medical staff in NHS, and it is very interesting to discuss systems and their impact on provision and care. Also the education system and how it churns out doctors.
Here they have to stop people becoming doctors because there’s just too many.

Anyway, good to hear about progress.
 
So again, you don't get credit for making progress while you're still in the hole. (Can't wait to see my fellow Yanks come in here when they see that 18 week stat. It's why I'll always prefer privatized health care. Yep, it costs a lot, but in our system the profit motive dictates keeping us alive. But that's another conversation).

In conclusion, this Yank with a bong, Google, insomnia, and a dumb fucking brain that is prone to spontaneous fucking hyper fixation had a fun joyride looking into all of this. But from my little foray across the pond, I'd say I can really see where the 60% seeing little to no change is coming from. Improvements have been seen, but costs and taxes look like they're going up, and it could be easily argued that the change being seen is coming very inefficiently for what it's costing.

"How unjust it is..." "That is plain wrong..." Fuck you (again, not YOU Riz, the article writer from El Guardino). Pretentious twat. Stuff this puff piece of your ass.

(Suck on the length of my post @osubuckeye4 !!! How long you gonna let me have the longest post on the new forum?!? It's my house now dawg)
With all due disrespect, there's only room for 1 Buckey.

Why you wanna crowd his turf?

You can have the parcel next door.
minion-becky.gif
 
Good to hear. Still I’d love UK people and especially health policy makers to come here and see how it can be done honestly 10X better and for the same public cost.
It is very eye opening.
I have one foot in the medical world through teaching and consulting, also family who work as medical staff in NHS, and it is very interesting to discuss systems and their impact on provision and care. Also the education system and how it churns out doctors.
Here they have to stop people becoming doctors because there’s just too many.

Anyway, good to hear about progress.
aren't all the doctors from India?
 
aren't all the doctors from India?
Thats what the daily mail would have you believe but no, in fact I think I have only seen middle class white GPs. The dentist I saw yesterday had an accent and olive skin but I'm not sure what her nationality was, she was really nice though

My world is surprisingly small. I have a token gay friend, a trans friend and an asian friend
 
With all due disrespect, there's only room for 1 Buckey.

Why you wanna crowd his turf?

You can have the parcel next door.
minion-becky.gif
I wanted to give Riz a conversation piece AND tell Bucky to step his game up. Mission accomplished!

We're not gonna discuss how long it took to research and type tho lol.
 
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Thats what the daily mail would have you believe but no, in fact I think I have only seen middle class white GPs. The dentist I saw yesterday had an accent and olive skin but I'm not sure what her nationality was, she was really nice though

My world is surprisingly small. I have a token gay friend, a trans friend and an asian friend
And they're all the same person: @Eranys
 
I wanted to give Riz a conversation piece AND tell Bucky to step his game up. Mission accomplished!

We're not gonna discuss how long it took to research and type tho lol.
Ok fair enough. Carry on.

I'm just freshening up the lane striping on this road that looks like it lost an argument against mortar shells.
 
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