Was this a GOOD loss for Machida?

[Nastycrow]

Originally posted by: anotherusername
Date: November 21, 2010 at 02:45 PM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/was-this-a-good-loss-for-machida.32566/

I'm a Machida fan, but I say this loss should be good for him in the long run.
It seems that Machida learned the wrong lesson from his KO loss to Shogun. To avoid damage he became more defensive than ever before. For the first two rounds it looked like he was even afraid to counter-punch, so scared he was of getting tagged by Rampage. He was so far away that a lot of his leg kicks missed, too. But when he finally attacked in round 3, he did some damage and then dominated on the ground. So what will he learn from this loss? First, that judges are not going to give him rounds for pure defense -- he has to attack. Second, that when he does attack, he succeeds. Third, he CAN take some shots without going down, as he did in this fight. If he applies these lessons he will become a much more exciting fighter.
The loss may also be good for Machida (and the fans) in another way -- he won't be fighting Shogun again any time soon. And, obviously, it was a good showing by Rampage. He seemed faster and more technical, more like the Rampage from Pride.

 

[Nastycrow]

Originally posted by: Jak
Date: November 21, 2010 at 02:56 PM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/was-this-a-good-loss-for-machida.32566/

No.
He had no variety, the Machida i used to like had good hands, good body shots, good knees, judo throws, confidence, and the ability to knock people out, and truly(even if uneventful) dominate rounds and grind people down in other rounds.
the Machida of last night, looked nothing like those past fights.

 

[Nastycrow]

Originally posted by: EdoKaz818
Date: November 21, 2010 at 03:05 PM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/was-this-a-good-loss-for-machida.32566/

Jak that was until it was the 3rd round when the aggrssive side of Machida came out and took over but it was way to late

 

[Nastycrow]

Originally posted by: anotherusername
Date: November 21, 2010 at 03:06 PM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/was-this-a-good-loss-for-machida.32566/

Jak said:
No.
He had no variety, the Machida i used to like had good hands, good body shots, good knees, judo throws, confidence, and the ability to knock people out, and truly(even if uneventful) dominate rounds and grind people down in other rounds.
the Machida of last night, looked nothing like those past fights.
Click to expand...
I'm not saying he did well in his fight last night, I'm saying that the loss should teach him some lessons he needs to learn.

 

[Nastycrow]

Originally posted by: Jak
Date: November 21, 2010 at 03:18 PM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/was-this-a-good-loss-for-machida.32566/

I just think Rampage, while being tough, hasn't looked good in a few fights and Machida, who prior to his Rua fights was breaking fighters like Rashad Evans and Thiago Silva.
While people can pick apart past opponents like Ortiz and Soko(because they're not good now), he still utterly smashed them in all facets of the game.
I guess i was just thoroughly disappointed that we barely saw any punches from Machida and any effectiveness in the clinch.
Edo has it that it came out in the third, but still... still just seemed like it wasn't the same fighter as who fought Evans.

 

[Nastycrow]

Originally posted by: anotherusername
Date: November 21, 2010 at 04:27 PM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/was-this-a-good-loss-for-machida.32566/

Jak said:
I just think Rampage, while being tough, hasn't looked good in a few fights and Machida, who prior to his Rua fights was breaking fighters like Rashad Evans and Thiago Silva.
While people can pick apart past opponents like Ortiz and Soko(because they're not good now), he still utterly smashed them in all facets of the game.
I guess i was just thoroughly disappointed that we barely saw any punches from Machida and any effectiveness in the clinch.
Edo has it that it came out in the third, but still... still just seemed like it wasn't the same fighter as who fought Evans.
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I agree, and looking back on it, I think the most disappointing thing was that he didn't capitalize on having the mount in round 3. I would have loved to see him posture up and rain some blows down on Rampage's face. I don't think he would have gotten the KO that way, but maybe it could have been a 10-8 round. In the first two rounds it seemed like Machida was scared because he didn't want a repeat of the second Shogun fight. But then he got over that and we saw some of his old form...but he didn't go far enough.

 

[Nastycrow]

Originally posted by: phoenix-mma
Date: November 21, 2010 at 04:32 PM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/was-this-a-good-loss-for-machida.32566/

I was explaining this to someone else last night; Machida reminds me of Hideo Nomo (the pitcher). When he first came in the league he had that unorthodox pitching style that threw batters off & was hard to hit. He was unhittable for the first year. Eventually people figured out his timing and style and abused him. That's what i see happening to Machida.
We saw that in the first Shogun fight, much more evident in the 2nd. And we were still seeing it last night. With that being said i still think he beats Rashad (again), but i think someone like Bones or Bader with great wrestling could pose more problems for Machida.

 

[Nastycrow]

Originally posted by: sourpuss
Date: November 21, 2010 at 05:53 PM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/was-this-a-good-loss-for-machida.32566/

There is no such thing as a good loss.
You might learn lessons from a loss, but a loss on your record is never good.

 

[Nastycrow]

Originally posted by: anotherusername
Date: November 21, 2010 at 05:59 PM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/was-this-a-good-loss-for-machida.32566/

sourpuss said:
There is no such thing as a good loss.
You might learn lessons from a loss, but a loss on your record is never good.
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I see your point, but if the split decision had gone the other way and he had won last night on that performance, it would have encouraged him to continue doing the same thing. Then everyone would hate him and eventually he would chased down and defeated. Also, a split decision loss, while bad for his record, is not humiliating and gives him a chance to change his ways with his dignity intact. So in a way it is good for him, IF he learns the right lessons.

 

[Nastycrow]

Originally posted by: Tuco77
Date: November 21, 2010 at 06:06 PM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/was-this-a-good-loss-for-machida.32566/

phoenix-mma said:
I was explaining this to someone else last night; Machida reminds me of Hideo Nomo (the pitcher). When he first came in the league he had that unorthodox pitching style that threw batters off & was hard to hit. He was unhittable for the first year. Eventually people figured out his timing and style and abused him. That's what i see happening to Machida.
We saw that in the first Shogun fight, much more evident in the 2nd. And we were still seeing it last night. With that being said i still think he beats Rashad (again), but i think someone like Bones or Bader with great wrestling could pose more problems for Machida.
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Wow, great comparison there.
Shogun laid out the blueprint to beat him and took the mystique away. Before him, guys were afraid to engage because his counter striking is very solid.
I still think Machida can be a force in the division, he has to start pulling the trigger though.

 

[Nastycrow]

Originally posted by: anotherusername
Date: November 21, 2010 at 06:13 PM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/was-this-a-good-loss-for-machida.32566/

phoenix-mma said:
I was explaining this to someone else last night; Machida reminds me of Hideo Nomo (the pitcher). When he first came in the league he had that unorthodox pitching style that threw batters off & was hard to hit. He was unhittable for the first year. Eventually people figured out his timing and style and abused him. That's what i see happening to Machida.
We saw that in the first Shogun fight, much more evident in the 2nd. And we were still seeing it last night. With that being said i still think he beats Rashad (again), but i think someone like Bones or Bader with great wrestling could pose more problems for Machida.
Click to expand...
There is a grain of truth to that but you are overstating it. He has never been dominated in any fight. In Shogun 1 he may have been outpointed a little, but not dominated. In Shogun 2 he was actually winning the round until he got caught, which could have happened to anyone. Last night, he was never hurt and only Rampage was in danger at any time (although it's hard to say for sure; that uppercut that Rampage hit him with in the clinch looked nasty and may have come close to rocking him).
His next fight is definitely make or break, though. I hope that they don't feed him to Jon Jones because I would like to see Machida gets his confidence back.

 

[Nastycrow]

Originally posted by: sourpuss
Date: November 21, 2010 at 06:21 PM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/was-this-a-good-loss-for-machida.32566/

anotherusername said:
sourpuss said:
There is no such thing as a good loss.
You might learn lessons from a loss, but a loss on your record is never good.
Click to expand...
I see your point, but if the split decision had gone the other way and he had won last night on that performance, it would have encouraged him to continue doing the same thing. Then everyone would hate him and eventually he would chased down and defeated. Also, a split decision loss, while bad for his record, is not humiliating and gives him a chance to change his ways with his dignity intact. So in a way it is good for him, IF he learns the right lessons.
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I'll see your opinion and raise you one "it could have been worse".

 

[Nastycrow]

Originally posted by: kmbowers
Date: November 21, 2010 at 06:32 PM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/was-this-a-good-loss-for-machida.32566/

Machida just didn't fight

 

[Nastycrow]

Originally posted by: JawJitsu
Date: November 21, 2010 at 06:32 PM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/was-this-a-good-loss-for-machida.32566/

If anything it was good for the UFC. Rampage needed a big win and got it, which is great for business, and Machida's loss means nothing because he's nowhere near being considered finished. You know, kinda like Sherk when he somehow got his hand raised after the Dunham fight. Sherk appears to be back on point and Dunham is still on the come up.

 

[Nastycrow]

Originally posted by: phoenix-mma
Date: November 22, 2010 at 09:34 AM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/was-this-a-good-loss-for-machida.32566/

anotherusername said:
There is a grain of truth to that but you are overstating it. He has never been dominated in any fight. In Shogun 1 he may have been outpointed a little, but not dominated. In Shogun 2 he was actually winning the round until he got caught, which could have happened to anyone. Last night, he was never hurt and only Rampage was in danger at any time (although it's hard to say for sure; that uppercut that Rampage hit him with in the clinch looked nasty and may have come close to rocking him).
His next fight is definitely make or break, though. I hope that they don't feed him to Jon Jones because I would like to see Machida gets his confidence back.
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I agree he's never been dominated in a fight (ala Lesnar vs Cain), but leading into the Shogun fight he hadn't lost a round. Since then he's struggled. He was winning the round against Shogun......until he lost. He lost the first 2 rounds against Page (by most accounts). Point being, what made Machida so great was his elusiveness. He was nearly impossible to hit/catch, which no longer seems to be the case. With each successful fight his opponents are seeing the blueprint as to how to beat him.
I still think Machida is a great fighter, but the new car smell has clearly worn off.

 

[Nastycrow]

Originally posted by: buffaloblue
Date: November 22, 2010 at 09:37 AM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/was-this-a-good-loss-for-machida.32566/

phoenix-mma said:
anotherusername said:
There is a grain of truth to that but you are overstating it. He has never been dominated in any fight. In Shogun 1 he may have been outpointed a little, but not dominated. In Shogun 2 he was actually winning the round until he got caught, which could have happened to anyone. Last night, he was never hurt and only Rampage was in danger at any time (although it's hard to say for sure; that uppercut that Rampage hit him with in the clinch looked nasty and may have come close to rocking him).
His next fight is definitely make or break, though. I hope that they don't feed him to Jon Jones because I would like to see Machida gets his confidence back.
Click to expand...
I agree he's never been dominated in a fight (ala Lesnar vs Cain), but leading into the Shogun fight he hadn't lost a round. Since then he's struggled. He was winning the round against Shogun......until he lost. He lost the first 2 rounds against Page (by most accounts). Point being, what made Machida so great was his elusiveness. He was nearly impossible to hit/catch, which no longer seems to be the case. With each successful fight his opponents are seeing the blueprint as to how to beat him.
I still think Machida is a great fighter, but the new car smell has clearly worn off.
Click to expand...
He did lose a round to BJ Penn.

 

[Nastycrow]

Originally posted by: phoenix-mma
Date: November 22, 2010 at 09:38 AM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/was-this-a-good-loss-for-machida.32566/

buffaloblue said:
phoenix-mma said:
anotherusername said:
There is a grain of truth to that but you are overstating it. He has never been dominated in any fight. In Shogun 1 he may have been outpointed a little, but not dominated. In Shogun 2 he was actually winning the round until he got caught, which could have happened to anyone. Last night, he was never hurt and only Rampage was in danger at any time (although it's hard to say for sure; that uppercut that Rampage hit him with in the clinch looked nasty and may have come close to rocking him).
His next fight is definitely make or break, though. I hope that they don't feed him to Jon Jones because I would like to see Machida gets his confidence back.
Click to expand...
I agree he's never been dominated in a fight (ala Lesnar vs Cain), but leading into the Shogun fight he hadn't lost a round. Since then he's struggled. He was winning the round against Shogun......until he lost. He lost the first 2 rounds against Page (by most accounts). Point being, what made Machida so great was his elusiveness. He was nearly impossible to hit/catch, which no longer seems to be the case. With each successful fight his opponents are seeing the blueprint as to how to beat him.
I still think Machida is a great fighter, but the new car smell has clearly worn off.
Click to expand...
He did lose a round to BJ Penn.
Click to expand...
good point blue! I should have clarified since coming to the UFC.

 

[Nastycrow]

Originally posted by: bjj_rage
Date: November 22, 2010 at 09:45 AM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/was-this-a-good-loss-for-machida.32566/

Well, he has to realize, theres only one Cecils peoples, and one only idiot that will give him the edge on octagon control "for making the other fighter follow him around the cage"...

 

[Nastycrow]

Originally posted by: clockwerk
Date: November 22, 2010 at 09:49 AM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/was-this-a-good-loss-for-machida.32566/

It seemed to me that he came in to the fight scared. He had just been KO'd for the first time and he was rattled. Then, towards the end of the second round, he dropped Rampage, and I think his comnfidence came flooding back. The Machida of the 3rd round looked like the old Machida. Even his stance was different from the first 2 rounds. It's very similar to the last Diego Sanchez fight, where he seems tentative and almost lost, then finds a little success and explodes.

 

[Nastycrow]

Originally posted by: fishfryer
Date: November 22, 2010 at 10:20 AM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/was-this-a-good-loss-for-machida.32566/

The loss was good for the fans, Machida is a talented patient fighter that bores me to tears. I hate watching him fight, I hate sitting through minutes of him running away looking for the right time to FINALLY throw a punch. Leg kicks may score, but the way he threw them (unlike Forrest) was just to make contact. Styles may make fights, but styles create fans too, his style is the worst of both, that is why there were so many empty seats, there aren't enough people out there that want to watch someone be elusive for most of the round and then leap in for a point. My guess is that Dana won't up his pay or even pay him what he made in the past because he can't put asses in a seat. Rampage on the other hand is the man, that guy shows up to fight.