What is an early/bad stoppage in MMA?

[Nastycrow]

Originally posted by: Budders
Date: February 23, 2014 at 05:31 PM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/what-is-an-early-bad-stoppage-in-mma.61164/

I know we have a bunch of similiar threads after last night, but I have to ask, what is a bad stoppage in MMA? I have some examples here, some I agree with, some I don't, and some I just couldn't find .gifs of so I couldn't include it. Also I only throw Costa vs Luke in here for comparison of body shot KOs.
Dan Henderson vs Fedor
Luke Rockhold vs Costa Philipou
Miehsa Tate vs Cat Zingano
Ronda Rousey vs Sara McMann
Urijah Faber vs Renan Barao II
Renan Barao vs Eddie Wineland
Anthony Johnson vs Charlie Brenneman
Dan Henderson vs Vitor Belfort
You hear 'intelligent defense' thrown around a lot, and to me that means putting yourself in a position to not only protect your self, but get out of the bad spot your in. With Sarah and Ronda, she gets smashed in the liver, drops for a moment and as Herb is coming in she's already elevating herself and getting back into the fight. Now if Ronda was smart, and went for another knee to the body, landed and dropped her again, I don't think were even having this conversation. But she didn't she hucked 3-4 shots at her face, none of which landed.
In the Faber Barao II, and Barao Wineland, he lands a devestationg shot and no doubt puts the guy in trouble. That being said, they both exhibit to me what is intelligent defense. Barao throws a bunch of punches at Faber, but they were all in the arm. I'm sure Faber would have been more than happy to take a few shots to the shoulder to tire Barao out, seemed intelligent to me. Against Wineland, he is covering up and never stops trying to advance position.
At the end of the day these guys and girls are FIGHTERS. They knew the risk when they entered the octagon and I'm sure the majority of the UFC roster is more than willing to eat a few shots if it's a questionable situation especially in a title fight.
What do you guys think? What's intelligent defense? Should there be more lenience in a title fight? How much damage does a fighter really need to take? Should guys like Henderson and Fedor be given more time based on their track records of solid chins?

 

[Nastycrow]

Originally posted by: grumble
Date: February 23, 2014 at 05:41 PM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/what-is-an-early-bad-stoppage-in-mma.61164/

Dan Henderson vs Fedor - fedor was out
Luke Rockhold vs Costa Philipou - costa was f---ed
Miesha Tate vs Cat Zingano - that td wasnt gonna land and more shots woulda been eaten
Ronda Rousey vs Sara Mcmann - probably would have given a few more seconds
Urijah Faber vs Renan Barao - doubt faber was in a whole lot of trouble, but didnt move so fine.
Eddie Wineland vs Renan Barao - 50/50 coulda let it go few more
Charlie Brenneman vs Anthony Johnson - hard to say, cb was wobbly before kick and bounced off fence. ok
Dan Henderson vs Vitor Belfort - dan was done

 

[Nastycrow]

Originally posted by: thedoop
Date: February 23, 2014 at 05:53 PM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/what-is-an-early-bad-stoppage-in-mma.61164/

all of those are pretty bad examples of early stoppages
except maybe meisha vs Cat

 

[Nastycrow]

Originally posted by: Sapper
Date: February 23, 2014 at 06:07 PM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/what-is-an-early-bad-stoppage-in-mma.61164/

All of your examples are not early. Early stoppages really don't happen that often. People like to b---- about this and that, but it is a rare thing for a fight to be stopped early. Usually upon replay the stoppage becomes justified.

 

[Nastycrow]

Originally posted by: mabrown45
Date: February 23, 2014 at 06:23 PM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/what-is-an-early-bad-stoppage-in-mma.61164/

its a judgement call...........after the fact we can all b---- if we want but in the heat of the moment when you see a fighter go down as a ref you have to react for safety reasons.

 

[Nastycrow]

Originally posted by: Bob002
Date: February 23, 2014 at 06:58 PM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/what-is-an-early-bad-stoppage-in-mma.61164/

grumble said:
Dan Henderson vs Fedor - fedor was out
Luke Rockhold vs Costa Philipou - costa was f---ed
Miesha Tate vs Cat Zingano - that td wasnt gonna land and more shots woulda been eaten
Ronda Rousey vs Sara Mcmann - probably would have given a few more seconds
Urijah Faber vs Renan Barao - doubt faber was in a whole lot of trouble, but didnt move so fine.
Eddie Wineland vs Renan Barao - 50/50 coulda let it go few more
Charlie Brenneman vs Anthony Johnson - hard to say, cb was wobbly before kick and bounced off fence. ok
Dan Henderson vs Vitor Belfort - dan was done
Click to expand...
I'd agree with most of these these. The only one is the Wineland one. Wineland looked like he had 0 motor control over his body when he first hit. He was on a hip, and you could tell he wanted to move, but his body just wasn't responding at that moment.

 

[Nastycrow]

Originally posted by: thedarkwingduck2k11
Date: February 23, 2014 at 06:59 PM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/what-is-an-early-bad-stoppage-in-mma.61164/

i'd say anything short of an unconscious body is an early stoppage.

 

[Nastycrow]

Originally posted by: MoJoJo
Date: February 23, 2014 at 07:05 PM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/what-is-an-early-bad-stoppage-in-mma.61164/

Honest question………. Do any of you think Dean stopped it early because it was women fighting? Had it been men fighting, I think he gives McMann a few more seconds to recover, demonstrate defense. Could just be me.

 

[Nastycrow]

Originally posted by: thedoop
Date: February 23, 2014 at 07:06 PM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/what-is-an-early-bad-stoppage-in-mma.61164/

MoJoJo said:
Honest question………. Do any of you think Dean stopped it early because it was women fighting? Had it been men fighting, I think he gives McMann a few more seconds to recover, demonstrate defense.
Click to expand...
That's just grasping at sexist straws
comon bruh

 

[Nastycrow]

Originally posted by: thedarkwingduck2k11
Date: February 23, 2014 at 07:07 PM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/what-is-an-early-bad-stoppage-in-mma.61164/

MoJoJo said:
Honest question………. Do any of you think Dean stopped it early because it was women fighting? Had it been men fighting, I think he gives McMann a few more seconds to recover, demonstrate defense.
Click to expand...
yeah i think it had something to do with it. he let cain mauled the crap out of jds for 5 rounds. i think as men, we have natural "protective" instinct when it comes to women, especially in an aggressive situation

 

[Nastycrow]

Originally posted by: MoJoJo
Date: February 23, 2014 at 07:08 PM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/what-is-an-early-bad-stoppage-in-mma.61164/

thedoop said:
That's just grasping at sexist straws
comon bruh
Click to expand...
How so? It's not a sexist question, but he let Waldberger be decapitated and the instant McMann went down he was there to stop it.

 

[Nastycrow]

Originally posted by: MoJoJo
Date: February 23, 2014 at 07:09 PM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/what-is-an-early-bad-stoppage-in-mma.61164/

thedarkwingduck2k11 said:
yeah i think it had something to do with it. he let cain mauled the crap out of jds for 5 rounds. i think as men, we have natural "protective" instinct when it comes to women, especially in an aggressive situation
Click to expand...
Exactly. I knew I couldn't be the only one that could see it that way.

 

[Nastycrow]

Originally posted by: thedoop
Date: February 23, 2014 at 07:20 PM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/what-is-an-early-bad-stoppage-in-mma.61164/

MoJoJo said:
How so? It's not a sexist question, but he let Waldberger be decapitated and the instant McMann went down he was there to stop it.
Click to expand...
I don't think that had to do with being male/female
That was more to do with him calling barao faber 2 "early"
causing him to let wald take a beating, therefore being called a bad stoppage (late)
due to the wald stoppage he stopped rousey mcmann ""early"

 

[Nastycrow]

Originally posted by: MoJoJo
Date: February 23, 2014 at 07:25 PM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/what-is-an-early-bad-stoppage-in-mma.61164/

thedoop said:
I don't think that had to do with being male/female
That was more to do with him calling barao faber 2 "early"
causing him to let wald take a beating, therefore being called a bad stoppage (late)
due to the wald stoppage he stopped rousey mcmann ""early"
Click to expand...
Fair enough.

 

[Nastycrow]

Originally posted by: newERA
Date: February 23, 2014 at 07:31 PM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/what-is-an-early-bad-stoppage-in-mma.61164/

MoJoJo said:
Honest question………. Do any of you think Dean stopped it early because it was women fighting? Had it been men fighting, I think he gives McMann a few more seconds to recover, demonstrate defense. Could just be me.
Click to expand...
I don't think so. Just look at the Rockhold/Costa clip. Herb comes running in immediately after Costa crouched over in pain. Luke didn't even get two or three punches in like Rousey did.

 

[Nastycrow]

Originally posted by: MoJoJo
Date: February 23, 2014 at 07:47 PM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/what-is-an-early-bad-stoppage-in-mma.61164/

newERA said:
I don't think so. Just look at the Rockhold/Costa clip. Herb comes running in immediately after Costa crouched over in pain. Luke didn't even get two or three punches in like Rousey did.
Click to expand...
Good points all.

 

[Nastycrow]

Originally posted by: Reckin007
Date: February 23, 2014 at 08:01 PM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/what-is-an-early-bad-stoppage-in-mma.61164/

grumble said:
Dan Henderson vs Fedor - fedor was out
Luke Rockhold vs Costa Philipou - costa was f---ed
Miesha Tate vs Cat Zingano - that td wasnt gonna land and more shots woulda been eaten
Ronda Rousey vs Sara Mcmann - probably would have given a few more seconds
Urijah Faber vs Renan Barao - doubt faber was in a whole lot of trouble, but didnt move so fine.
Eddie Wineland vs Renan Barao - 50/50 coulda let it go few more
Charlie Brenneman vs Anthony Johnson - hard to say, cb was wobbly before kick and bounced off fence. ok
Dan Henderson vs Vitor Belfort - dan was done
Click to expand...
How is this even possible, it was the exact same scenario!

 

[Nastycrow]

Originally posted by: KZUFCchamp2013
Date: February 23, 2014 at 08:27 PM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/what-is-an-early-bad-stoppage-in-mma.61164/

A stoppage is never late nor is it early. It is stopped precisely when it means to

 

[Nastycrow]

Originally posted by: anotherusername
Date: February 23, 2014 at 11:03 PM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/what-is-an-early-bad-stoppage-in-mma.61164/

newERA said:
I don't think so. Just look at the Rockhold/Costa clip. Herb comes running in immediately after Costa crouched over in pain. Luke didn't even get two or three punches in like Rousey did.
Click to expand...
But Costa was not getting up. In fact he stayed down even after the stoppage because he was hurt so bad. McMann was already getting up when the fight was stopped and she was fine a few seconds later. But I doubt it had to do with gender.

 

[Nastycrow]

Originally posted by: redd1
Date: February 23, 2014 at 11:13 PM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/what-is-an-early-bad-stoppage-in-mma.61164/

anotherusername said:
But Costa was not getting up. In fact he stayed down even after the stoppage because he was hurt so bad. McMann was already getting up when the fight was stopped and she was fine a few seconds later. But I doubt it had to do with gender.
Click to expand...
But herb didn't know that at the time, for all he knew McMann was just as hurt as Costa.