Who should be blamed more? Athletic Commission or...

[Nastycrow]

Originally posted by: PsychoIcon
Date: July 15, 2011 at 02:21 PM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/who-should-be-blamed-more-athletic-commission-or.40498/

The fighters or The System. The fighters should follow the rules, but the system is fail & broken. So whos to blame?
Who do you blame more?
Kinda like baseball. Do you blame the league, or the players
BTW I am talking about Steroids. Another Steroid Thread, but different topic.
If it is legal to do it then the players cant be to blame is my thought process, but I dunno...
At work didnt have much time to work or think this threw but heres the short end of the thread-piece.

 

[Nastycrow]

Originally posted by: ResoluteProtector
Date: July 15, 2011 at 02:31 PM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/who-should-be-blamed-more-athletic-commission-or.40498/

There is this crazy system in place, that most, if not all of us are familiar with; they're called laws. If you break the law, you pay the price, whatever it may be; fine, jail time, even death.
If you don't break the law, should you still pay the price? This may sound like a stupid question, but it's the same principle.
Hey, maybe I should go sign up for law enforcement and put everyone who is calling Marquardt a cheater in jail. Anyone wanna join me?

 

[Nastycrow]

Originally posted by: MoJoJo
Date: July 15, 2011 at 02:33 PM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/who-should-be-blamed-more-athletic-commission-or.40498/

Why should the AC's be blamed for fighters breaking the rules? like blaming the rape victim for wearing a short skirt.

 

[Nastycrow]

Originally posted by: ResoluteProtector
Date: July 15, 2011 at 02:36 PM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/who-should-be-blamed-more-athletic-commission-or.40498/

MoJoJo said:
Why should the AC's be blamed for fighters breaking the rules? like blaming the r*** victim for wearing a short skirt.
Click to expand...
If he broke the rule, then the AC would have a responsibility to punish him. just because you and probably 99.8% of posters
think
Marquardt broke the rules, doesn't make it a
Sorry, I like this photo better.

 

[Nastycrow]

Originally posted by: MoJoJo
Date: July 15, 2011 at 02:42 PM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/who-should-be-blamed-more-athletic-commission-or.40498/

Im not the smartest dude around but coming in with elevated testosterone levels that are beyond the standard is breaking the rules.

 

[Nastycrow]

Originally posted by: PsychoIcon
Date: July 15, 2011 at 02:42 PM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/who-should-be-blamed-more-athletic-commission-or.40498/

The thing is what Nate did is perfectly legal, but the UFC took the hit for him missing the Event.
The penalty for users should be more severe accross the board or the trt levels should be tighten up... Res knows more about this than I do, but somethign should be done.

 

[Nastycrow]

Originally posted by: ResoluteProtector
Date: July 15, 2011 at 02:52 PM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/who-should-be-blamed-more-athletic-commission-or.40498/

All jokes aside, here is my suggestion. Let the Athletic Commission do their job, first and foremost. Secondly, fighters who are beginning HRT/TRT should not be allowed to fight until their medical conditionand HRT/TRT therapy has stabilized. Continue testing as previously done. And with the new random testing that is being discussed/implemented, issues similar to Marquardt's are likely to be greatly reduced, if not eliminated all together.
One treatment has stabilized, and medication administration is consistent, then put a three strike system in place. You test high, once, small suspension and fine. Test high a second time, typical suspension as if you actually FAILED a drug test. Third time either come off the s--- or stop fighting. Truth be told, once your levels have stabilized, you can do a two strike system. If a situation like Nate's occurs and you change Physicians for legit reason as deeemed by the AC, then you restart the process. Second opinions are normal, hence a clause for switching Physicians, but I see no legit reason to switch a third time.
EDITED: Like it or not a fighter who has failed a drug test may require TRT as that is a known cause (NOT the ONLY cause) so they should have a clean slate when it comes to Therapy that has been deemed necessary by the Commission.

 

[Nastycrow]

Originally posted by: MoJoJo
Date: July 15, 2011 at 02:56 PM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/who-should-be-blamed-more-athletic-commission-or.40498/

ResoluteProtector said:
All jokes aside, here is my suggestion. Let the Athletic Commission do their job, first and foremost. Secondly, fighters who are beginning HRT/TRT should not be allowed to fight until their medical conditionand HRT/TRT therapy has stabilized. Continue testing as previously done. And with the new random testing that is being discussed/implemented, issues similar to Marquardt's are likely to be greatly reduced, if not eliminated all together.
One treatment has stabilized, and medication administration is consistent, then put a three strike system in place. You test high, once, small suspension and fine. Test high a second time, typical suspension as if you actually FAILED a drug test. Third time either come off the s**t or stop fighting.
Click to expand...
I like where you are going with this, but the only problem when it comes to testosterone is it fluctuates infinitely through out the day. For instance, if you eat guacamole, the avocados will increase your levels, if you eat the dark meat in chicken, the zinc will increase your levels, if you don't get a good nights sleep your levels will be low. Now throw in your treatment and you can be over the levels with the smallest amount of extra testosterone. But you are on to something, it just needs to be refined.

 

[Nastycrow]

Originally posted by: ResoluteProtector
Date: July 15, 2011 at 02:56 PM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/who-should-be-blamed-more-athletic-commission-or.40498/

MoJoJo said:
Im not the smartest dude around but coming in with elevated testosterone levels that are beyond the standard is breaking the rules.
Click to expand...
And no, this is not ALWAYS the case my friend. Sorry.

 

[Nastycrow]

Originally posted by: MoJoJo
Date: July 15, 2011 at 02:57 PM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/who-should-be-blamed-more-athletic-commission-or.40498/

ResoluteProtector said:
MoJoJo said:
Im not the smartest dude around but coming in with elevated testosterone levels that are beyond the standard is breaking the rules.
Click to expand...
And no, this is not ALWAYS the case my friend. Sorry.
Click to expand...
coming in over the allowable levels isn't against the rules? Huh, interesting.

 

[Nastycrow]

Originally posted by: PsychoIcon
Date: July 15, 2011 at 02:57 PM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/who-should-be-blamed-more-athletic-commission-or.40498/

ResoluteProtector said:
All jokes aside, here is my suggestion. Let the Athletic Commission do their job, first and foremost. Secondly, fighters who are beginning HRT/TRT should not be allowed to fight until their medical conditionand HRT/TRT therapy has stabilized. Continue testing as previously done. And with the new random testing that is being discussed/implemented, issues similar to Marquardt's are likely to be greatly reduced, if not eliminated all together.
One treatment has stabilized, and medication administration is consistent, then put a three strike system in place. You test high, once, small suspension and fine. Test high a second time, typical suspension as if you actually FAILED a drug test. Third time either come off the s**t or stop fighting. Truth be told, once your levels have stabilized, you can do a two strike system. If a situation like Nate's occurs and you change Physicians for legit reason as deeemed by the AC, then you restart the process. Second opinions are normal, hence a clause for switching Physicians, but I see no legit reason to switch a third time.
EDITED: Like it or not a fighter who has failed a drug test may require TRT as that is a known cause (NOT the ONLY cause) so they should have a clean slate when it comes to Therapy that has been deemed necessary by the Commission.
Click to expand...
Well Said my friend.

 

[Nastycrow]

Originally posted by: ResoluteProtector
Date: July 15, 2011 at 03:00 PM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/who-should-be-blamed-more-athletic-commission-or.40498/

MoJoJo said:
ResoluteProtector said:
All jokes aside, here is my suggestion. Let the Athletic Commission do their job, first and foremost. Secondly, fighters who are beginning HRT/TRT should not be allowed to fight until their medical conditionand HRT/TRT therapy has stabilized. Continue testing as previously done. And with the new random testing that is being discussed/implemented, issues similar to Marquardt's are likely to be greatly reduced, if not eliminated all together.
One treatment has stabilized, and medication administration is consistent, then put a three strike system in place. You test high, once, small suspension and fine. Test high a second time, typical suspension as if you actually FAILED a drug test. Third time either come off the s**t or stop fighting.
Click to expand...
I like where you are going with this, but the only problem when it comes to testosterone is it fluctuates infinitely through out the day. For instance, if you eat guacamole, the avocados will increase your levels, if you eat the dark meat in chicken, the zinc will increase your levels, if you don't get a good nights sleep your levels will be low. Now throw in your treatment and you can be over the levels with the smallest amount of extra testosterone. But you are on to something, it just needs to be refined.
Click to expand...
True, but as a professional fighter, who gets paid to compete, that is your job. To compete and be ready to compete, with acceptable medical clearance. I will not even begin to pretend like I know everything about HRT/TRT. That being said, I would think that HRT/TRT patients require a special diet, especially at the professional level. And even if they don't well then make it a requirement. Part of your job as a professional fighter undergoing Therapy is that once your levels are stabilized, you be proactive, in making sure it stays that way. That is, if you want to continue to be a fighter.
To be quite honest, daily blood test similar to what Diabetic patients due is not out of the question.
*The underlined is opinion and not necessarily fact.

 

[Nastycrow]

Originally posted by: purgetheweak
Date: July 15, 2011 at 03:27 PM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/who-should-be-blamed-more-athletic-commission-or.40498/

The ACs should just require fighters to see an endocrinologist before they can even start HRT, and then force them to report back to the doctor every week. It would allow fighters who 'have a condition' to keep fighting, while maintaining proper testosterone levels.

 

[Nastycrow]

Originally posted by: ResoluteProtector
Date: July 15, 2011 at 03:35 PM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/who-should-be-blamed-more-athletic-commission-or.40498/

MoJoJo said:
ResoluteProtector said:
MoJoJo said:
Im not the smartest dude around but coming in with elevated testosterone levels that are beyond the standard is breaking the rules.
Click to expand...
And no, this is not ALWAYS the case my friend. Sorry.
Click to expand...
coming in over the allowable levels isn't against the rules? Huh, interesting.
Click to expand...
It prevents them from competing if that what you mean by against the rules. But even though the Athletic Commission is in place to be objective and set objective rules, fighter safety comes first. This is the reason why Marquardt was only suspended until his levels came down. It wasn't acceptable for him to
fight
with elevated levels, but if it has been deemed medically necessary, that trumps the normal standard, which is why the situation was so relaxed in terms of how the AC handled it and he wasn't simply suspended for a preset period like say one year.
I might have originally misunderstood your comment the first time I responded. Hopefully the above clears things up. And if I did, I apologize.

 

[Nastycrow]

Originally posted by: sourpuss
Date: July 15, 2011 at 04:11 PM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/who-should-be-blamed-more-athletic-commission-or.40498/

ResoluteProtector said:
MoJoJo said:
Why should the AC's be blamed for fighters breaking the rules? like blaming the r*** victim for wearing a short skirt.
Click to expand...
If he broke the rule, then the AC would have a responsibility to punish him. just because you and probably 99.8% of posters
think
Marquardt broke the rules, doesn't make it a
Sorry, I like this photo better.
Click to expand...
You know RP, considering this wasn't Nate's first brush with juicing trouble, you're very assuming.
Have you suffered from the same nasty symptoms as Marquardt or something? Your trust in him is almost beyond belief.
IMO fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.
Nate Marquardt will risk anything to gain an advantage. This time it got him fired.
Nate Marquardt is a cheat.
The blame is on both.
The AC's are to blame for allowing such a thing under such vague symptoms
and the fighters are to blame for stooping low enough to exploit such a stupid exemption.

 

[Nastycrow]

Originally posted by: SupermanUFC
Date: July 15, 2011 at 04:19 PM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/who-should-be-blamed-more-athletic-commission-or.40498/

Im one of those guys in Diaz, cole miller, hardy (though he sucks , his theory is good), and a few others that believe the system is severely flawed. there should be now way, that a guy can throw 4 lethal punches and one amazing leg kick, and a takedown changes it all. there is no way control should be superior to damage! im so against that!
i believe the biggest problem is
A- the system
B- the judges
C- the fighters
yellow cards are essential for those of us who are not satisfied with guys like guida (post last performance), gsp, fitch, lentz, etc.
i believe when it comes to a good fight but a bad decision, that is at no ones blame but the athletic commission who is willing to hide the fact that they are f---ing up!
and lastly, fighters need to always come in there with the mentality that they have to fight intelligently, and they have to finish their opponent.
why be comfortable doing the minimum>??

 

[Nastycrow]

Originally posted by: ResoluteProtector
Date: July 15, 2011 at 05:33 PM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/who-should-be-blamed-more-athletic-commission-or.40498/

sourpuss said:
You know RP, considering this wasn't Nate's first brush with juicing trouble, you're very assuming.
Have you suffered from the same nasty symptoms as Marquardt or something? Your trust in him is almost beyond belief.
IMO fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.
Nate Marquardt will risk anything to gain an advantage. This time it got him fired.
Nate Marquardt is a cheat.
The blame is on both.
The AC's are to blame for allowing such a thing under such vague symptoms
and the fighters are to blame for stooping low enough to exploit such a stupid exemption.
Click to expand...
While you may be under the impressing that I am assuming a lot, the same can be said for everyone else.
I'm familiar with the "Fool me once" quote, but that quote in itself call for an assumption. And your following comments of "Nate Marquardt will risk anything to gain and advantage" is very much an assumption. In fact if he would risk
anything
as you say, then, why has he don't popped every single time he has fought? Nate tested positive back in what, 2005? Since then let's see, I believe he has lost to Okami, Sonnen and Anderson who is the current Champion. Of all times why didn't he pop in his title fight, after all, isn't that the ultimate goal in MMA, a UFC Championship? Nope, he didn't. While it might appear that I have assumed a lot as you say, I assure you that I have not. And while you are still under the impression that you are right, and I am so very wrong, it is a shame that there are very clear clues, that would state the exact opposite. I can understand not wanting to be fooled again. But in all honesty, you appear to be so afraid of being fooled that you are in fact, fooling yourself. Nate cheated in the past, and that I do not dispute. But this time, fortunately, unfortunate for your perspective, that is not the case. Accept it, or continue to fool yourself if it make you feel better.

 

[Nastycrow]

Originally posted by: Hitman21
Date: July 15, 2011 at 05:35 PM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/who-should-be-blamed-more-athletic-commission-or.40498/

fighters, and part is the media for looking the other way

 

[Nastycrow]

Originally posted by: MoJoJo
Date: July 15, 2011 at 07:11 PM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/who-should-be-blamed-more-athletic-commission-or.40498/

ResoluteProtector said:
MoJoJo said:
ResoluteProtector said:
All jokes aside, here is my suggestion. Let the Athletic Commission do their job, first and foremost. Secondly, fighters who are beginning HRT/TRT should not be allowed to fight until their medical conditionand HRT/TRT therapy has stabilized. Continue testing as previously done. And with the new random testing that is being discussed/implemented, issues similar to Marquardt's are likely to be greatly reduced, if not eliminated all together.
One treatment has stabilized, and medication administration is consistent, then put a three strike system in place. You test high, once, small suspension and fine. Test high a second time, typical suspension as if you actually FAILED a drug test. Third time either come off the s**t or stop fighting.
Click to expand...
I like where you are going with this, but the only problem when it comes to testosterone is it fluctuates infinitely through out the day. For instance, if you eat guacamole, the avocados will increase your levels, if you eat the dark meat in chicken, the zinc will increase your levels, if you don't get a good nights sleep your levels will be low. Now throw in your treatment and you can be over the levels with the smallest amount of extra testosterone. But you are on to something, it just needs to be refined.
Click to expand...
True, but as a professional fighter, who gets paid to compete, that is your job. To compete and be ready to compete, with acceptable medical clearance. I will not even begin to pretend like I know everything about HRT/TRT. That being said, I would think that HRT/TRT patients require a special diet, especially at the professional level. And even if they don't well then make it a requirement. Part of your job as a professional fighter undergoing Therapy is that once your levels are stabilized, you be proactive, in making sure it stays that way. That is, if you want to continue to be a fighter.
To be quite honest, daily blood test similar to what Diabetic patients due is not out of the question.
*The underlined is opinion and not necessarily fact.
Click to expand...
I totally agree, but the one and very big downfall to the underlined is testosterone testing on a daily basis is very expensive. Im in the military and had mine tested wednesday and got my results back today and I asked the Dr. how expensive it is to do these tests and he said he wouldn't ever get it done if he wasn't in the military.

 

[Nastycrow]

Originally posted by: Fight Magnet
Date: July 15, 2011 at 08:07 PM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/who-should-be-blamed-more-athletic-commission-or.40498/

MoJoJo said:
ResoluteProtector said:
MoJoJo said:
I like where you are going with this, but the only problem when it comes to testosterone is it fluctuates infinitely through out the day. For instance, if you eat guacamole, the avocados will increase your levels, if you eat the dark meat in chicken, the zinc will increase your levels, if you don't get a good nights sleep your levels will be low. Now throw in your treatment and you can be over the levels with the smallest amount of extra testosterone. But you are on to something, it just needs to be refined.
Click to expand...
True, but as a professional fighter, who gets paid to compete, that is your job. To compete and be ready to compete, with acceptable medical clearance. I will not even begin to pretend like I know everything about HRT/TRT. That being said, I would think that HRT/TRT patients require a special diet, especially at the professional level. And even if they don't well then make it a requirement. Part of your job as a professional fighter undergoing Therapy is that once your levels are stabilized, you be proactive, in making sure it stays that way. That is, if you want to continue to be a fighter.
To be quite honest, daily blood test similar to what Diabetic patients due is not out of the question.
*The underlined is opinion and not necessarily fact.
Click to expand...
I totally agree, but the one and very big downfall to the underlined is
testosterone testing
on a daily basis
is very expensive.
Im in the military and had mine tested wednesday and got my results back today and I asked the Dr. how expensive it is to do these tests and he said he wouldn't ever get it done if he wasn't in the military.
Click to expand...
+1
I'm glad this was mentioned, as it's a very important, often times, overlooked element of this issue. In a perfect world, all costs aside, many things would be different. Thing is, ACs are operating on fixed budgets, according to my understanding. Thus, things are never perfect, and it takes time to implement changes.The ACs don't have bottomless pits of money to do daily testing.
As EgROJ did, drew parallels with the issue of judging, when considering who to blame. I think the same element of finances has to be taken into consideration as well.If the ACs had more money, then they could do more rigorous testing for their judges.Pay Judges more = better judging.
Now, I'm not here to wave the flag for ACs around the world, it's just that the financial element often times gets overlooked in these discussions, so it's worth mentioning. :| Perhaps if the ACs had Zuffa money to throw at these problems, changes would come about far more quickly.