Yves Lavigne at 102

[Nastycrow]

Originally posted by: CopperHeart
Date: August 31, 2009 at 11:26 AM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/yves-lavigne-at-102.17108/

LelandMMA said:
I will admit I was worried for Leben's health after this fight. He was twitching, and I was worried Leben was seriously injured.
He stopped it just in time, any longer I think Leben would have had some serious health problems. Glad Leben is okay, and he really scared me when he started flopping around like a fish out of water
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Honestly the human brain can last a good 5 minutes without proper oxygenation.
So the only health concerns would be a broken bone or perhaps a crushed windpipe...

 

[Nastycrow]

Originally posted by: vfrex
Date: August 31, 2009 at 11:30 AM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/yves-lavigne-at-102.17108/

CopperHeart said:
LelandMMA said:
I will admit I was worried for Leben's health after this fight. He was twitching, and I was worried Leben was seriously injured.
He stopped it just in time, any longer I think Leben would have had some serious health problems. Glad Leben is okay, and he really scared me when he started flopping around like a fish out of water
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Honestly the human brain can last a good 5 minutes without proper oxygenation.
So the only health concerns would be a broken bone or perhaps a crushed windpipe...
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I thought the arm triangle was a blood choke?

 

[Nastycrow]

Originally posted by: CopperHeart
Date: August 31, 2009 at 11:32 AM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/yves-lavigne-at-102.17108/

vfrex said:
CopperHeart said:
LelandMMA said:
I will admit I was worried for Leben's health after this fight. He was twitching, and I was worried Leben was seriously injured.
He stopped it just in time, any longer I think Leben would have had some serious health problems. Glad Leben is okay, and he really scared me when he started flopping around like a fish out of water
Click to expand...
Honestly the human brain can last a good 5 minutes without proper oxygenation.
So the only health concerns would be a broken bone or perhaps a crushed windpipe...
Click to expand...
I thought the arm triangle was a blood choke?
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That's what I'm saying. Leben wasn't choked for several minutes.
So even if something got smashed (like a clavicle), he wasn't in actual danger.

 

[Nastycrow]

Originally posted by: LovePeaceandUFC
Date: August 31, 2009 at 12:23 PM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/yves-lavigne-at-102.17108/

It was obviously a tapout. The reason why it might not seem as obvious is because he was GOING UNCONSCIOUS as he was tapping out. But Yves began to step in, ignored his first instinct, and let Chris Leben get choked to the point of twitching on the floor. I wouldn't be as harsh about this ref if this was his first offense, and their job can be very difficult, but we've seen inconsistencies with this ref before. He's done.

 

[Nastycrow]

Originally posted by: RearNakedSlam
Date: August 31, 2009 at 01:17 PM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/yves-lavigne-at-102.17108/

I don't know, the more I think about it, the more I think this is all Lebens fault. He waited to long to tap, and when he did it looked more like a slap because he was going out as he did it. Even after the tap he was only unconscious for 2 seconds MAX, kids do that for fun these days.
Jake would have held on to the choke for alot longer for their to be brain damage. People that rupture an artery die from blood loss, not brain function, so you gotta think it takes longer than 2 seconds past the point of going unconscious to lose brain function.

 

[Nastycrow]

Originally posted by: micmeraz
Date: August 31, 2009 at 03:57 PM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/yves-lavigne-at-102.17108/

Bob002 said:
MikeMeraz said:
f**k That! This is the second strike for Evil Levigne, first he let Matt Brown beat the crap out of someone till they became mentally challenged, now he risks Chris Leben of Brain damage, If you look close, Leben Taps Once and than taps a few more times but their not that noticeable because their tiny taps as he was going out, Evil is paid to be an expert on these situations, he shopuld train to be a ref like these fighters train for a fight, they sometimes depend on him. He should have seen Leben tapped clearly but he was probably admiring his shorts or something....
Refs make mistakes, it was close but still....
STRIKE 2!!!
:x
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I'm sorry, but you can't say in one breath that it's a strike against Yves and then in another say "it was close but still".
As has been pointed out, had he stopped the fight much earlier people would be up in arms over the early stoppage. IMO, it's just as much (if not MORE) Leben's fault. He had a much, much earlier chance to tap than when he attempted.
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Yeah your probably right, he should have taped sooner but I thought the UFC should have let go of Levigne after the Matt Brown fight... So I still think it's a strike 2, I mean, I seen Leben tap once and than a couple other times as he was going out.

 

[Nastycrow]

Originally posted by: Bob002
Date: August 31, 2009 at 04:44 PM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/yves-lavigne-at-102.17108/

MikeMeraz said:
Bob002 said:
MikeMeraz said:
f**k That! This is the second strike for Evil Levigne, first he let Matt Brown beat the crap out of someone till they became mentally challenged, now he risks Chris Leben of Brain damage, If you look close, Leben Taps Once and than taps a few more times but their not that noticeable because their tiny taps as he was going out, Evil is paid to be an expert on these situations, he shopuld train to be a ref like these fighters train for a fight, they sometimes depend on him. He should have seen Leben tapped clearly but he was probably admiring his shorts or something....
Refs make mistakes, it was close but still....
STRIKE 2!!!
:x
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I'm sorry, but you can't say in one breath that it's a strike against Yves and then in another say "it was close but still".
As has been pointed out, had he stopped the fight much earlier people would be up in arms over the early stoppage. IMO, it's just as much (if not MORE) Leben's fault. He had a much, much earlier chance to tap than when he attempted.
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Yeah your probably right, he should have taped sooner but I thought the UFC should have let go of Levigne after the Matt Brown fight... So I still think it's a strike 2, I mean, I seen Leben tap once and than a couple other times as he was going out.
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Interesting interview on the front page with Rosholt:
Soon after Rosholt secured the choke, Leben took his own arm and moved it toward his opponent's body. While some say Leben was clearly tapping, others say he may have simply been trying to throw a punch, position himself or even just feel around for Rosholt's body. Regardless, Lavigne didn't stop the action immediately. But seconds later, when Leben was clearly out cold, the bout was halted. Some blamed Lavigne for a late stoppage.
Rosholt said he hasn't gone back to watch the fight, but he said Leben was, in fact, tapping out.
"I felt him tap," Rosholt said. "It was a tap. In the lobby (the next day), Leben even said, 'I tried to tap, but I think I went out after that.' ... I knew going into that fight, if I went into the position, he was going to have to go out because he doesn't tap."
However, Rosholt was quick to defend Lavigne from criticism. He said before the fight even began, the veteran referee spoke to both fighters backstage and said a single tap or two doesn't constitute a tap-out. Instead, Lavigne told them, they had to be clear about their intentions.
Rosholt said he agreed with Lavigne's thoughts.
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I put the most interesting part in bold. If Rosholt knew he tapped (like he says), why did he not go ahead and release? I think Leben STILL would've gone out, but there wouldn't be nearly as much controversy on the subject.

 

[Nastycrow]

Originally posted by: CopperHeart
Date: August 31, 2009 at 05:12 PM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/yves-lavigne-at-102.17108/

Bob002 said:
I put the most interesting part in bold. If Rosholt knew he tapped (like he says), why did he not go ahead and release? I think Leben STILL would've gone out, but there wouldn't be nearly as much controversy on the subject.
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It's the referee's job to confirm the tap, not the fighter's.

 

[Nastycrow]

Originally posted by: JonnyF
Date: August 31, 2009 at 06:06 PM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/yves-lavigne-at-102.17108/

Bob002 said:
I put the most interesting part in bold. If Rosholt knew he tapped (like he says), why did he not go ahead and release? I think Leben STILL would've gone out, but there wouldn't be nearly as much controversy on the subject.
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Well if he didn't go out... then he has top position. What would happen if he ended up pounding Rosholt out and winning? If Rosholt knew Leben was out, but still held it because the ref didn't stop it, that'd be different. You go until you secure the victory, whether you choke the person out or knock them out.

 

[Nastycrow]

Originally posted by: abc0331
Date: August 31, 2009 at 06:45 PM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/yves-lavigne-at-102.17108/

CopperHeart said:
Bob002 said:
I put the most interesting part in bold. If Rosholt knew he tapped (like he says), why did he not go ahead and release? I think Leben STILL would've gone out, but there wouldn't be nearly as much controversy on the subject.
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It's the referee's job to confirm the tap, not the fighter's.
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No its the ref's job to protect the fighters long term health. Every second without oxygen leads closer to long-term brain damage.
I would'nt be sitting here talking this thing up if it punches or a joint lock held too long. But chokes themselves are more dangerous to human health than any other action in MMA.
Personally I love this sport too much, I love the athletes that are in it too much for any of them to be choked to death in the ring while the referee counts the right number of taps.
Lavigne's job by the state is to know the the fight is over. Some fighters are out but still take a beating after they should and the fighter compalins. But the referee's job is when to decide to stop the fight in situations of a punch or a choke. In this case Rosholt had the choke clear as day, he was working for it about 50 seconds before he landed it. And Leban was slowly going out. This is when its the officals job to not let the two men who are currently in battle to not take it too far.
Rosholt said that Leban was the kind of guy that was'nt going to tap----Yves is the person that has been put in charge of knowing that and stopping it from happening since Leban is the type guy that would rather die then quit.

 

[Nastycrow]

Originally posted by: Bob002
Date: August 31, 2009 at 06:46 PM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/yves-lavigne-at-102.17108/

JonnyF said:
Bob002 said:
I put the most interesting part in bold. If Rosholt knew he tapped (like he says), why did he not go ahead and release? I think Leben STILL would've gone out, but there wouldn't be nearly as much controversy on the subject.
Click to expand...
Well if he didn't go out... then he has top position. What would happen if he ended up pounding Rosholt out and winning? If Rosholt knew Leben was out, but still held it because the ref didn't stop it, that'd be different. You go until you secure the victory, whether you choke the person out or knock them out.
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I didn't clarify/mention in my original post (and something I'd mentioned in a Nate Marquardt/Hendo thread as well), but that's easily understandable/agreeable. However, the way that Rosholt comes off says to me that it was CLEAR to him that Leben was tapping (again, just my interpretation of the line).
I think it comes down to Leben not wanting to give up in front of the hometown crowd and going out because of it.

 

[Nastycrow]

Originally posted by: acw161
Date: August 31, 2009 at 09:39 PM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/yves-lavigne-at-102.17108/

It was a good stoppage.. guys are always complaining about early stoppages and this was right on

 

[Nastycrow]

Originally posted by: kingofMMA
Date: August 31, 2009 at 10:04 PM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/yves-lavigne-at-102.17108/

He is a ref who is slow and uncoordinated and should be tested for taking drugs because his actions are bizarre. He looked right at the tap and just spazzed out, What happens if he just keeps looking at doesn't do anything next time? DEATH that's why I say test the ref for drugs just like the fighters. :idea:

 

[Nastycrow]

Originally posted by: keystone
Date: August 31, 2009 at 10:09 PM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/yves-lavigne-at-102.17108/

kingofMMA said:
He is a ref who is slow and uncoordinated and should be tested for taking drugs because his actions are bizarre. He looked right at the tap and just spazzed out, What happens if he just keeps looking at doesn't do anything next time? DEATH that's why I say test the ref for drugs just like the fighters. :idea:
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fans like u need to get edjuamacated about how s--- works if you think DEATH is next cuz of stuff like that.

 

[Nastycrow]

Originally posted by: Bob002
Date: August 31, 2009 at 10:45 PM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/yves-lavigne-at-102.17108/

kingofMMA said:
He is a ref who is slow and uncoordinated and should be tested for taking drugs because his actions are bizarre. He looked right at the tap and just spazzed out, What happens if he just keeps looking at doesn't do anything next time? DEATH that's why I say test the ref for drugs just like the fighters. :idea:
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Yves didn't spaz out; he pulled back due to Leben kicking his legs out. Go watch the animated GIF on the first page showing this and you can clearly see.
Leben goes for what looks like a cross between a punch/tap, Yves leans in to stop it, the legs kick like he's trying to get out, and then about 3 seconds later Yves stops it after Leben is definitely out. Leben's fault, 99.95% of the way.

 

[Nastycrow]

Originally posted by: IndianaWrestler
Date: September 02, 2009 at 03:05 AM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/yves-lavigne-at-102.17108/

"I felt him tap," Rosholt said. "It was a tap. In the lobby (the next day), Leben even said, 'I tried to tap, but I think I went out after that.' ... I knew going into that fight, if I went into the position, he was going to have to go out because he doesn't tap."
However, Rosholt was quick to defend Lavigne from criticism. He said before the fight even began, the veteran referee spoke to both fighters backstage and said a single tap or two doesn't constitute a tap-out. Instead, Lavigne told them, they had to be clear about their intentions.
Rosholt said he agreed with Lavigne's thoughts.
"I'd rather go out and have him (a referee) make a mistake ... than have him stop it after just one tap or whatever," he said.
by Dann Stupp on Aug 31, 2009 at 2:00 pm ET

 

[Nastycrow]

Originally posted by: Slampage
Date: September 02, 2009 at 06:53 PM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/yves-lavigne-at-102.17108/

Bob002 said:
Yves didn't spaz out; he pulled back due to Leben kicking his legs out. Go watch the animated GIF on the first page showing this and you can clearly see.
Leben goes for what looks like a cross between a punch/tap, Yves leans in to stop it, the legs kick like he's trying to get out, and then about 3 seconds later Yves stops it after Leben is definitely out. Leben's fault, 99.95% of the way.
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Forget a GIF, watch the fight on HD replay. Leben is NOT trying to punch, nor is he trying to escape. He's going unconscious. Read my previous posts, I can't keep going on with this topic, it's like arguing over politics. I just don't want to see fighters die because of the rEfeReE.
REF FAIL.

 

[Nastycrow]

Originally posted by: MartinezClinch
Date: September 02, 2009 at 08:02 PM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/yves-lavigne-at-102.17108/

I thought that it should've been stopped, but what the hell do I know? I know an arm-triangle, when sunk like it was, will put you out pronto. I know Yves Lavigne should know that. I know that the choke was very tight and deep, and Chris was not escaping. I know Chris shivered and convulsed after he was choked unconscious. But you guys are probably right- it's better to go out on your shield than walk out with your head hung low.....

 

[Nastycrow]

Originally posted by: GoodCat
Date: September 02, 2009 at 08:42 PM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/yves-lavigne-at-102.17108/

mmafanatic said:
Yves Lavigne is now officially one of the worst referees in MMA!
His big mistakes in the past have him in there without any confidence in his decision making ability, and that is VERY clear. Leben CLEARLY tapped, to anyone who actually knows fights. Ed Herman fight should have also been stopped, if he complained so what it's the referee's job to keep the fighter's safe and there was absolutely no way in hell Herman had any chance of coming back to win that fight, ZERO.
Lavigne screwed the pooch, AGAIN. He's gotta go. And, don't give me any of this "the ufc doesn't pick the refs, the athletic commision, blah, blah". The UFC clearly hasn't let Big John back reffing for them, so they can definitely refuse to accept someone. Lavigne and Mirgliotta (spelling?) have got to go!!!
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Dude, in Herman's case, it's not up to Lavigne whether or not the fight is stopped. It's the doctor's call on that. And Yves is actually one of the best refs in MMA, not the worst.
Jake Rosholt was on Junkie radio yesterday and said that Yves came up to him and Leben after the fight in the locker rooms and said the reason he didn't stop it earlier was that he usually looks for 3 taps before he steps in, and because Chris waited so long to try and tap, he was already asleep by the time he got his 2nd tap in. Then, his legs twitched and looked like he was trying to kick out of it. You can clearly see Yves back off when he saw his legs kick up, then immediatly he realizes that Chris is out.

 

[Nastycrow]

Originally posted by: Bob002
Date: September 03, 2009 at 03:45 AM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/yves-lavigne-at-102.17108/

Slampage said:
Bob002 said:
Yves didn't spaz out; he pulled back due to Leben kicking his legs out. Go watch the animated GIF on the first page showing this and you can clearly see.
Leben goes for what looks like a cross between a punch/tap, Yves leans in to stop it, the legs kick like he's trying to get out, and then about 3 seconds later Yves stops it after Leben is definitely out. Leben's fault, 99.95% of the way.
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Forget a GIF, watch the fight on HD replay. Leben is NOT trying to punch, nor is he trying to escape. He's going unconscious. Read my previous posts, I can't keep going on with this topic, it's like arguing over politics. I just don't want to see fighters die because of the rEfeReE.
REF FAIL.
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I've watched the gif and I've watched the fight.
When I first saw it, I thought he was going for a tap, then he stopped (possibly because he was out), and then his legs kicked. Yves went for stop right there, until he saw the leg kicked, which looked like an escape attempt. Leben had plenty of chance to tap before he did, and didn't want to lose face to the hometown crowd.
LEBEN FAIL