Tales of Everyday Life

[LoneCowboy]

Sounds like a segregation of duties issue.

Manager sounds like they are the one who is performing the cash count, signing off on the cash drawer totals, as well as potentially making the deposit to the bank. Those duties should fall to different people (employee A counts, employee B or manager signs off on the count, manager makes the deposit) to mitigate the likelihood of something like this.

Though, it's always possible the owner set it up correctly and the manager ended up convincing subordinates to commit crimes as well.


Owner, who I'm guessing is very hands off, likely caught the mistake when the monthly bank statement arrived... which is good. Ideally a more hands on owner would be logging into the bank on a periodic basis and making sure things looked accurate, but monthly statement is a catch all and if it was a long-time manager I'm sure the owner had a level of trust established there (which is normal).

see I knew you would go "What the hell in the name of no damn auditing controls is going on here?"

I mean duh, i totally agree with you

I hadn't thought of why it took a month, the statement is totally it
But seriously, how dumb of criminals are these?
skim $20 a day no one notices. steal it all and yeah it's gonna get noticed.

 

[osubuckeye4]

Not a bad idea, but it's never been like that anywhere I've ever worked; it's always just been the manager who handles deposits. Unless they're off, of course, then it's the assistant manager.

Depositing itself should ideally only be one person (with a designated backup/backups if that person is out).

Cash count should be a different person than the person making the deposit though. Ideally you have the cashier perform a count and then your assistant manager pulls all the cash from every register and performs a total cash count, then you have the manager verify and seal before making the deposit (either via a drive to the bank, or, hand-off to armored car person)

Granted, it all depends on the size of the business and how much cash we're talking. If you're running an establishment where you have 1 front of house manager and a skeleton crew cooking behind the scenes you're not realistically going to be able to have the cook count and the cashier verify and deposit (will likely be the cashier/manager doing both while the cook is handling all of the back of house).

If that's the type of operation though, owner needs to be much more hands on than looking at a monthly statement. I'd expect either for the owner to come in daily and verify the count/handle the deposit, or, at the very least be performing weekly reconciliations via the bank statements and receipts.


I'm thinking more a fast food place like McDonalds where you'll have multiple registers, a drive-thru, and a crew of 8-15 people at any given time. You should have a different person performing the count from the one verifying the count and making the deposit.

Still entirely possible that both people conspire to rip you off, but it's much less likely... especially if you have day and night shifts with counts occurring as each shift enters/leaves.

 

[ABB]

Depositing itself should ideally only be one person (with a designated backup/backups if that person is out).

Cash count should be a different person than the person making the deposit though. Ideally you have your assistant manager pull the cash and perform the cash count, then you have the manager verify and seal before making the deposit (either via a drive to the bank, or, hand-off to armored car person)

Granted, it all depends on the size of the business and how much cash we're talking. If you're running an establishment where you have 1 front of house manager and a skeleton crew cooking behind the scenes you're not realistically going to be able to have the cook count and the cashier verify and deposit (will likely be the cashier/manager doing both while the cook is handling all of the back of house).

If that's the type of operation though, owner needs to be much more hands on than looking at a monthly statement. I'd expect either for the owner to come in daily and verify the count/handle the deposit, or, at the very least be performing weekly reconciliations via the bank statements and receipts.


I'm thinking more a fast food place like McDonalds where you'll have multiple registers, a drive-thru, and a crew of 8-15 people at any given time. You should have a different person performing the count from the one verifying the count and making the deposit.

Still entirely possible that both people conspire to rip you off, but it's much less likely... especially if you have day and night shifts with counts occurring as each shift enters/leaves.

cash is taking a dirt nap out my way. just yesterday at the farmers market, which was like 100% cash and a lil Venmo, the rotisserie chicken guy won't take cash. All bc a few months ago at the Oakland farmers market somebody shot an killed his employee for the cash. Less than $200 too.

 

[LoneCowboy]

cash is taking a dirt nap out my way. just yesterday at the farmers market, which was like 100% cash and a lil Venmo, the rotisserie chicken guy won't take cash. All bc a few months ago at the Oakland farmers market somebody shot an killed his employee for the cash. Less than $200 too.

well
Oakland

 

[LoneCowboy]

Depositing itself should ideally only be one person (with a designated backup/backups if that person is out).

Cash count should be a different person than the person making the deposit though. Ideally you have your assistant manager pull the cash and perform the cash count, then you have the manager verify and seal before making the deposit (either via a drive to the bank, or, hand-off to armored car person)

Granted, it all depends on the size of the business and how much cash we're talking. If you're running an establishment where you have 1 front of house manager and a skeleton crew cooking behind the scenes you're not realistically going to be able to have the cook count and the cashier verify and deposit (will likely be the cashier/manager doing both while the cook is handling all of the back of house).

If that's the type of operation though, owner needs to be much more hands on than looking at a monthly statement. I'd expect either for the owner to come in daily and verify the count/handle the deposit, or, at the very least be performing weekly reconciliations via the bank statements and receipts.


I'm thinking more a fast food place like McDonalds where you'll have multiple registers, a drive-thru, and a crew of 8-15 people at any given time. You should have a different person performing the count from the one verifying the count and making the deposit.

Still entirely possible that both people conspire to rip you off, but it's much less likely... especially if you have day and night shifts with counts occurring as each shift enters/leaves.

a million years ago when I worked at Slav-On drugs, you ahd to count your drawer out, the mgr had to count your drawer out
then the manger on duty, had to do all teh deposits and then someone else had to cross sign them (each stack of $500)
then the damn thing had to all add up to what it was supposed to be
then the next day a different manager counted the deposits again (and signed off)

of course, back then high schoolers and graduates could count without using their fingers.

 

[osubuckeye4]

see I knew you would go "What the hell in the name of no damn auditing controls is going on here?"

I mean duh, i totally agree with you

I hadn't thought of why it took a month, the statement is totally it
But seriously, how dumb of criminals are these?
skim $20 a day no one notices. steal it all and yeah it's gonna get noticed.

I always say... behind every stupid/nonsensical rule, there is some idiot who in the past did something so monumentally dumb that an official rule/policy had to be created.

Even with all the rules and policies, it's still impossible to prevent some people from being idiots. Case in point, last year one our, now former, directors (who I had actually warned our SVP about because he didn't seem to understand basic functions of the multi-million dollar department he was running) got scammed out of $1.2 million because he didn't properly vet an invoice.

It wasn't even that good of a fake invoice either. He ended up getting fired, and our accounting team and IT investigated it to see if he was in on it. Nope, he was just a really dumb dude that didn't profit off it at all, just got scammed by a phisher.

My boss and I looked at it from every angle, there's really nothing we could do to prevent it outside of telling people who are making a shitload of money and who are suppose to be professionals to do their fucking job correctly.

 

[Tito Orcheese]

Depositing itself should ideally only be one person (with a designated backup/backups if that person is out).

Cash count should be a different person than the person making the deposit though. Ideally you have your assistant manager pull the cash and perform the cash count, then you have the manager verify and seal before making the deposit (either via a drive to the bank, or, hand-off to armored car person)

Granted, it all depends on the size of the business and how much cash we're talking. If you're running an establishment where you have 1 front of house manager and a skeleton crew cooking behind the scenes you're not realistically going to be able to have the cook count and the cashier verify and deposit (will likely be the cashier/manager doing both while the cook is handling all of the back of house).

If that's the type of operation though, owner needs to be much more hands on than looking at a monthly statement. I'd expect either for the owner to come in daily and verify the count/handle the deposit, or, at the very least be performing weekly reconciliations via the bank statements and receipts.


I'm thinking more a fast food place like McDonalds where you'll have multiple registers, a drive-thru, and a crew of 8-15 people at any given time. You should have a different person performing the count from the one verifying the count and making the deposit.

Still entirely possible that both people conspire to rip you off, but it's much less likely... especially if you have day and night shifts with counts occurring as each shift enters/leaves.

Ya, I'll say the crews I had managed were usually around 7 or so, and that does make a difference. I was the one to handle cash 99% of the time. I wish they would've revisited their procedures and made necessary changes to keep me from stealing their money so often.

 

[cmvideo75]

Back in my Pizza Hut managing days, after 9pm I was basically the only one in the store other than a driver. I always counted the draw and put the money in the safe by myself. The opening manager the next day went to the bank but they didn't confirm anything. I used to put the money into a plastic sleeve/envelope and seal it, they just deposited it. The loose money that we kept for change and stuff.... that was counted at every shift change.

Basically I just had to make sure the money I put into the envelope at the end of the night matched the sales log for the day. So the thing to do if you needed some gas money was to not ring in orders after 9pm lol.

 

[osubuckeye4]

a million years ago when I worked at Slav-On drugs, you ahd to count your drawer out, the mgr had to count your drawer out
then the manger on duty, had to do all teh deposits and then someone else had to cross sign them (each stack of $500)
then the damn thing had to all add up to what it was supposed to be
then the next day a different manager counted the deposits again (and signed off)

of course, back then high schoolers and graduates could count without using their fingers.

I worked a few cashier jobs in the 90s. At the good places, we had dedicated login/logout numbers to our register (it was YOUR register, no one else touched it during your shift) and we had to count our drawer both before logging in, and before logging out for our shift... the manager/assistant manager would then physically pull the counted drawer and replace it by giving the person stepping in a new drawer to work with. There was a $0 tolerance for error... if it didn't count they'd pull the logs and if needed they'd match it against the CCTV overhead footage of you working the register. Those were generally very large department store type operations with dozens of registers and A LOT of cash exchanging hands.

At the bad places it was pretty much like a lot of you are describing. There'd really not be any control over the register because you'd have multiple people using it in a given shift and as long as things weren't too off kilter (i.e. sales log showed $500 and register count was $497 or $504), you were fine. If it was way off then they'd line everyone else and start trying to figure out who fucked up, and if they did it intentionally or just keyed a number in wrong. A couple places had the old 'eye in the sky' surveillance over the register and it was always fun when a new employee would get busted by it.


Oh man, a couple of my fuck-up buddies in high school used to work at Toys R' Us and they designed this elaborate scheme where they stole tens of thousands of dollars of merchandise without ever getting caught. It was actually pretty clever, and probably part of the reason why Toys R Us ended up going bankrupt

 

[Eranys]

Not a bad idea, but it's never been like that anywhere I've ever worked; it's always just been the manager who handles deposits. Unless they're off, of course, then it's the assistant manager.

This. Every place I've managed cash registers and such, the closing manger does their own deposit and it is sealed for the bank. Either the GM or an opening manger will take the sealed deposits to the bank if there is no armored car pickup. But sometimes I ended up taking my own deposits to the bank. The controls are in accounting at corporate HQ. Doesn't matter if you are the one counting and depositing, accounting will catch you if are stealing without a serious plan. And if you have a serious plan, counting out deposits has nothing to do with your theft.

 

[osubuckeye4]

This. Every place I've managed cash registers and such, the closing manger does their own deposit and it is sealed for the bank. Either the GM or an opening manger will take the sealed deposits to the bank if there is no armored car pickup. But sometimes I ended up taking my own deposits to the bank. The controls are in accounting at corporate HQ. Doesn't matter if you are the one counting and depositing, accounting will catch you if are stealing without a serious plan. And if you have a serious plan, counting out deposits has nothing to do with your theft.

If the entity is large enough to have a corporate HQ and dedicated accounting department thats a different scale than what @LoneCowboy initially brought up (small independently owned fast food place)

The type of places LC mentioned are typically having their accounting done in QuickBooks by the owner or some local CPA that the owner pays.

 

[Eranys]

If the entity is large enough to have a corporate HQ and dedicated accounting department thats a different scale than what @LoneCowboy initially brought up (small independently owned fast food place)

The type of places LC mentioned are typically having their accounting done in QuickBooks by the owner or some local CPA that the owner pays.

Missed that, but I also have experience there. As a closing manager at a place like that, you would count out your deposit and then submit to the owner. But at a small operation like that, there wouldn't be 3 people to verify like he said. One person counts the drawers and then the owner verifies. Sometimes, the cashier and the supervisor will both count, but there typically isn't time for that and the supervisor or manager just does it.

 

[Tito Orcheese]

This. Every place I've managed cash registers and such, the closing manger does their own deposit and it is sealed for the bank. Either the GM or an opening manger will take the sealed deposits to the bank if there is no armored car pickup. But sometimes I ended up taking my own deposits to the bank. The controls are in accounting at corporate HQ. Doesn't matter if you are the one counting and depositing, accounting will catch you if are stealing without a serious plan. And if you have a serious plan, counting out deposits has nothing to do with your theft.

Had a manager in my district at Murphy USA that was rolling several $1000s of the current day's intake into the previous day's deposit. She did this for, like, four fucking months. With that company, if the deposit wasn't made by 11am, corporate would get a "late deposit" notice. I remember I did a deposit late once or twice, and those fuckers were on my ass about it immediately. How she got away with late deposits for that long is beyond me.

During a surprise audit, she went to another store (how audits were done there, it's completely normal for a manager to have to leave and come back during), took money out of their deposit, replaced it with a check she wrote for $1000s, and made her deposit. Well, the check bounced (obviously), and who the fuck writes a gas station a check for $1000s? Even if it went through, shit wouldn't have added up against daily intake numbers.

Anyway, her story was that she had accidentally thrown away a deposit and was slowly paying it back. She completely ghosted as soon as she found out she was busted. Other manager got fired, too. Tards.

 

[Eranys]

Had a manager in my district at Murphy USA that was rolling several $1000s of the current day's intake into the previous day's deposit. She did this for, like, four fucking months. With that company, if the deposit wasn't made by 11am, corporate would get a "late deposit" notice. I remember I did a deposit late once or twice, and those fuckers were on my ass about it immediately. How she got away with late deposits for that long is beyond me.

During a surprise audit, she went to another store (how audits were done there, it's completely normal for a manager to have to leave and come back during), took money out of their deposit, replaced it with a check she wrote for $1000s, and made her deposit. Well, the check bounced (obviously), and who the fuck writes a gas station a check for $1000s? Even if it went through, shit wouldn't have added up against daily intake numbers.

Anyway, her story was that she had accidentally thrown away a deposit and was slowly paying it back. She completely ghosted as soon as she found out she was busted. Other manager got fired, too. Tards.

I had a friend once upon a time who made terrible decisions. He was a degenerate gambler, but a pretty decent one. He told me, years after he had done it, that for a time, he had made a habit of taking the nightly deposit to the casino after work and playing blackjack. He was doing ok until, as was bound to happen, he had a bad night and lost the whole thing. He ended having to take a loan from his brother, and instead of just paying the money back, he went to the casino AGAIN. Fortunately for his dumbass, he made the money back and then some. He never did it again after that night.

 

[Tito Orcheese]

I had a friend once upon a time who made terrible decisions. He was a degenerate gambler, but a pretty decent one. He told me, years after he had done it, that for a time, he had made a habit of taking the nightly deposit to the casino after work and paying blackjack. He was doing ok until, as was bound to happen, he had a bad night and lost the whole thing. He ended having to take a loan from his brother, and instead of just paying the money back, he went to the casino AGAIN. Fortunately for his dumbass, he made the money back and then some. He never did it again after that night.

Let it ride! Lmfao!

 

[LoneCowboy]

I always say... behind every stupid/nonsensical rule, there is some idiot who in the past did something so monumentally dumb that an official rule/policy had to be created.

Even with all the rules and policies, it's still impossible to prevent some people from being idiots. Case in point, last year one our, now former, directors (who I had actually warned our SVP about because he didn't seem to understand basic functions of the multi-million dollar department he was running) got scammed out of $1.2 million because he didn't properly vet an invoice.

It wasn't even that good of a fake invoice either. He ended up getting fired, and our accounting team and IT investigated it to see if he was in on it. Nope, he was just a really dumb dude that didn't profit off it at all, just got scammed by a phisher.

My boss and I looked at it from every angle, there's really nothing we could do to prevent it outside of telling people who are making a shitload of money and who are suppose to be professionals to do their fucking job correctly.

1.2 million???????
FFS
dude probably getting paid bank to be a fooking moron

 

[LoneCowboy]

Oh man, a couple of my fuck-up buddies in high school used to work at Toys R' Us and they designed this elaborate scheme where they stole tens of thousands of dollars of merchandise without ever getting caught. It was actually pretty clever, and probably part of the reason why Toys R Us ended up going bankrupt

deets?????????

did they hide in the roof?

 

[LoneCowboy]

He was a degenerate gambler,

There's another kind???????????????

 

[osubuckeye4]

deets?????????

did they hide in the roof?

This was 100% Toys R Us' fault for having shitty CCTV in their warehouse or at their dumpsters, but if i remember correctly what they would do is take a bunch of merchandise off the truck and they would throw it into larger boxes that were marked for garbage and tell the manager that the truck was light.

Then they would take the "garbage" out to the trash and empty all the smaller boxes of good merchandise before throwing the trash boxes into the dumpster.


Granted this was almost 30 years ago and I was hearing all of it second hand, but that was the gist of it.

 

[Eranys]

This was 100% Toys R Us' fault for having shitty CCTV in their warehouse or at their dumpsters, but if i remember correctly what they would do is take a bunch of merchandise off the truck and they would throw it into larger boxes that were marked for garbage and tell the manager that the truck was light.

Then they would take the "garbage" out to the trash and empty all the smaller boxes of good merchandise before throwing the trash boxes into the dumpster.


Granted this was almost 30 years ago and I was hearing all of it second hand, but that was the gist of it.

I know someone who did the same thing at Petco for years. She never got caught for that, but did get fired for stealing money.