When was that? These days, I bet the EU is more in favor of the death penalty...
Triple M Junkie Idol Game thread
- Thread starter thedarkwingduck2k11
- Start date
TheIronSheik
I break your back, make you humble!
Exactly. It’s a tough niche to break into.
TheIronSheik
I break your back, make you humble!
This was about ten years ago. I’d tell them I’m American and BAM, instant ethical argument. I couldn’t even break even by saying I’m pro nudity. Not even proving it helped
Gorillapunt
Looking for a little handjob
They will give you a nice comfortable pod to off yourself in for pretty much any reason you want though!
bconcrete
VolksFAGGIN
The raging erection while discussing the death penalty was a bit of a mixed message tbfThis was about ten years ago. I’d tell them I’m American and BAM, instant ethical argument. I couldn’t even break even by saying I’m pro nudity. Not even proving it helped
ABB
Mega Ultra Ultimate Magnificent Chief Moderator
"I take care of the pre-execution sodomy but have absolutely nothing to do with their death"
TheIronSheik
I break your back, make you humble!
I respect how nonchalant European dudes are when strolling around in their birthday suit. The second my dick hits air I look like a wild eyed chimpanzee trying to prove a point.
TheIronSheik
I break your back, make you humble!
That’s comforting. I definitely got that vibe from the French. The Italians just wanted my wallet.
ABB
Mega Ultra Ultimate Magnificent Chief Moderator
the volume of speedos in Europe is a trip
Tito Orcheese
MTM Junkie Idol Jesus
Was hoping for some surprise, late-night scores. Oh well.
Especially when those dudes are packing an aardvark and don't even realize how disgusting that looks.
Tito Orcheese
MTM Junkie Idol Jesus
Indeed, I think circumcised cocks look so much better.
a-mart
Well Liked Pager Technician
Different cocks for different folks
TheIronSheik
I break your back, make you humble!
Tito Orcheese
MTM Junkie Idol Jesus
I know what kind of cock I want to look at!
ABB
Mega Ultra Ultimate Magnificent Chief Moderator
I was on a beach in Portugal and felt way overdressed frfr
MMAFTM13
Well-known member
This is so true. Mostly from the Italians, German, French, Portuguese, Spanish. Not so much from the UK though thank fuck! Banana Hammocks need to be universally banned for life, these people that wear them think they pull it off but they do not. Especially when they’re wrinkly old men. Yuck!
thedarkwingduck2k11
Well-known member
Round 3- "MMA Unpopular Opinion"
All right guys, welcome back. This is the last round of the preliminaries, so make it count. The top 8 will advance to the quarterfinals and be ranked with their total scores.
This round will test your mma knowledge and power of persuasion. Our topic for this round is MMA Unpopular Opinions. To clarify, an unpopular opinion is a personal belief or viewpoint that goes against the mainstream, commonly held consensus, or the prevailing status quo. It describes a stance that is not widely accepted or favored by the majority.
You will pick an unpopular opinion on any MMA topic and present to the judges. You will try to convince the judges that your unpopular opinion is most likely more correct than the mainstream thought. Judges will score based on how much this unpopular opinion divert from the mainstream, the strength of the mma topic, and how much they are persuaded by this argument. For example an unpopular opinion on a topic like "Ring girls aren't necessary at mma fights" probably wouldn't be very high on the totem pole. Judges will make all the calls so try your best to convince them. You can use visuals like videos, graphs, pictures for your presentation, but the write-ups is your main selling point.
1. @Tito Orcheese
"Performance-Enhancing Drugs should be legalized in MMA."
It's fight night. You're sitting in the back getting taped up, running over things in your mind for the hundredth time. The eight-week camp went great; you shored up some weaknesses and improved on strengths. The weight-cut went about as smoothly as one could hope for, and you're feeling as good as ever for the first main event of your MMA career. You do feel like you're forgetting something, but not quite sure what it could be.
Fast-forward to the end of round 4. It's been a back-and-forth war, and you're feeling it. While not completely gassed, digging deep will very much be a requirement. It's fine; your opponent is feeling the same exact way. Up off the stool, you look across the cage to lock eyes with...the fucking Energizer Bunny? After being brutalized for five minutes by a man with a limitless gas tank, you remember what you had forgotten to do: learn how to cycle erythropoietin.
---
What a shame for that guy, huh? I bet that "win" bonus would've been nice. Whether he decided against the use of PEDs out of honor, or fear of pissing hot and being handed a lengthy suspension that would gut his bank account, his opponent clearly had no problem taking advantage of anything that might give him an edge to continue his upward trajectory at work.
Joe Rogan said there was a "steroid epidemic" plaguing MMA. Cheick Kongo claimed at least 50% of fighters take steroids. Chad Mendes stated he thinks it's closer to 80%. Nate Diaz said "everyone is on steroids." Who knows what the actual percentage is. During the USADA era, there was a reported 8.7% test failure rate, but we can all clearly see that there are more bacne breakouts in MMA than all the country's high schools combined! Ok, maybe that is a bit of an exaggeration, but you get my point.
Are they on steroids? Are they not on steroids? Let's just take the guesswork out of this shit. Open the gates! Let's not have fighters worrying if their opponent's PED regimen is more on point, or that their timing for passing tests is impeccable. And God help the minority of poor bastards that actually don't use PEDs. I'm all for everyone having the opportunity to compete on a level playing field.
Lastly, MMA fighters usually have a pretty small window in which they can make decent money. Most fighters won't make it to the top, bringing in the lucrative contracts with big paydays, meaning they need to be able to fight more often while staying competitive enough to secure a spot in their division. Regardless of which is which, I want them all to be able to make as much money as they can for as long as they can. Injuries and lengthy suspensions can be absolutely catastrophic financially for these people. Get rid of the tests, and let them feel free to use some roids to speed up their recovery!
Also, c'mon, who doesn't want to see their favorite fighters more often, for a longer period of time, and at their absolute peak? There's not a fan alive that didn't love watching TRT Vitor doing his thing at 36 yrs old.
webble: I don’t agree with this one and after reading the write up I still don’t agree with it, I didn’t like TRT Vitor and I don’t like that ‘look’ I think it would be a very tricky one from a betting point of view as, unless fighters publicly declared what they were taking then it really would be a gamble rather than an educated guess. Also don’t forget Josh Barnett got popped for PEDS and he never ‘looked’ like a user so with the exception of The American Gangster who can tell what someone’s on by looking how would you know? 3/10
GoodCat: I've been on this bandwagon for years. Fans wanna act like they give 2 shits about "fighter safety" or "the integrity of the sport". But we all know that's BS. Fans wanna see brutal knockouts, and the smart fans also wanna see great grappling and that limitless gas tank you talked about. Fighters talk about it not being an even playing field, well if you make PEDs legal, then everybody has the same opportunity again. Nobody cared in the summer of 1997 that McGuire and Sosa were juiced to the gills, they just wanted to see how many HRs they could hit. I'm all in on this one 10/10
Brick: Definitely an unpopular opinion (although not unheard of), and it’s a pretty strong MMA topic that has been discussed since about day one. But I remain unpersuaded by your argument, because you didn’t address the one major flaw with such a pivot: the damage to the reputation, and perhaps even survival, of the sport. MMA is already pretty polarizing, and opening the doors to unlimited PEDs (which no other major, legit sport does) would just give those who look at it as a joke/sideshow more ammunition, and rightfully so. Despite the argument presented here, I think this would be an utter disaster. 4/10.
cmvideo75: Not terrible. You hit the point on how I would have tried to argue this at the very end... it keeps your favorite fighters fighting at a higher level for longer. I mean as a fan, this is entertainment to me. If they don't care about the consequences, then why should I? The morality of it can be argued back and forth but tell me that the most memorable fights and fighters over the past 20 years haven't been juiced to the gills? I'm in! 7/10
Total:24
2. @FunnyHoneyBunny
Dana White is a good boss
To address the first doubt:
Yes.. this is 100% an unpopular opinion.
Go to any bigger MMA site and say Dana White is a good boss and out of 100 people around 105 will shit on you.
If he saves 3 children in a burning building, they will complain, why he did not save 4.
That is by definition an unpopular opinion.
The reason why i still want to make this claim:
UFC fighter have the chance to earn a lot of money and that is manely because of how the UFC was managed in the last 20~ years.
The common theme is:
"Fighters pay is shit, compare it to soccer, NFL, Basketball."
The problem is:
In those sports you do not get paid by the league. You get paid by the team. And the team wants the best players.
Those players will follow the money of 20-30 different teams and that drives salaries up.
We should compare it to boxing.
And if you look at boxing (the way WAY bigger sport compared to MMA, which is still small in most countries) people outside of any top 20 earn nothing.
It does not help them in any way that the Furys and Wilders are multimillionaires.
They also need a second job, just like UFC fighters in the smallest contracts.
If we include that boxing generates much more money, the UFC fighters purse is not that smaller.
In fact.. they produced a lot of millionaires themselves:
https://mmasalaries.com/
This would not have happened, if Dana came in and said:
"We will pay our fighters every second penny we earn."
Every MMA company that tried that failed.
If boxing, a over a century old sport can't do it, how should a new sport like MMA manage it?
It needs investors. And they don't grow on trees.. unlike fighters.
Dana knew he needs to keep the investors happy, not the fighters.
And because of that, the UFC grew so big, that we now have 600 fighters in the by far biggest league (yeah.. it's not you.. ONE FC..)
If a guy like Jared Gordon who goes home with 100k, if he wins the fight, i would say the company and the payment are in a way better spot, than without an asshole like Dana.
With 600 fighters there will be many, that do not earn that much money.
But MMA is a very flat sport.
Compare it to NBA. There are only 450 players in the NBA.
Across the US there are 24.3 million registered players.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basketball_in_the_United_States
There are no 30 Million MMA fighter on the whole planet.
That means, the 600 fighters can't expect to earn the same money as other top leagues in other sports, because MMA is not build like that.
If you make it into the NBA you won against 24 Million people.
To get to the UFC you have to jump over 2-3 leagues max and you already have your spot in the biggest league.
Only because both the UFC and the NBA are the number one league, does not make every fighter/player comparable.
People still complain that Dana is earning more, than the fighters.. i have never seen a company, where the boss doesn't earn the most money..
Now people will argue, that the other leagues handle it differently.
Bellator, PFL, ONE FC.
Yeah.. they have some fighters that earn a shit ton of money.
That lead to Bellator closing down and PFL not wanting to pay that money and ONE FC to cut half their roster.
And they all spend that money in the first place, to compete with the UFC.
Without the UFC Francis would not have gotten 10 Million from the PFL for a fight that nobody paid to watch.
Without the UFC Jake Paul would not claim to pay so much for his fighters (which.. he doesn't even do..)
Without Dana being an asshole, none of those leagues would pay their fighters even 10k/10k.
Dana turned this into a stable sport (for the UFC) and still continues to grow.
There have been bad decisions, there have been fighters who .. did not get treated well,
but in the end the UFC pays 600 fighters (at the time of writing this) they money and i would assume most of them do not need a second job anymore.
Ofc there is more to a good boss than they payment.
And yeah.. he slapped his wife in front of everyone.
That shows he is a POS, but what a boss does outside of the company is kinda irrelevant.
He also is a very VERY emotional guy, that fires fighters he hates or gives them (through Hunter, Silva, etc.) tough fights.
I won't deny this, but he showed the same kind of behaviour in a positive way.
If fighters perform on a card, he gives them a locker room bonus, without mentioning it. (maybe because other fighters want that bonus as well.. but we can't say that)
He also shows it, when he tipps the server at the blackjack table, but.. that again is his private stuff and does not count here.
For Dana i always feel like the UFC is his "video game".
He wants it to grow, if some fans or some fighters get lost on the way, but the company grows, he will choose that way, because that is winning.
And that will always be a "cold hearted" thing, but this kind of drive made the UFC what it is today.
You can't have the same growth AND those salaries/purses we have today in the UFC already 15 years ago.
If the fighters would have made a union possible 10 years ago, the UFC would not have been in front of the white house (what ever you personally think about that card)
With that being said..
Dana White is a POS but a good boss
webble: I had never really thought too hard about this one so didn’t have a pre-formed opinion, good choice of topic. I like the point about players being paid by teams rather than the organisation, again something I hadn’t thought of ( do I just need to do more thinking? ) I think the writer of this piece got a little off track at the start focusing on pay and just as I was thinking that’s not just what makes a good boss they pointed that out themselves and brought it back on topic. I think it’s a difficult subject in that Dana isn’t technically their boss when it comes to the fighters as they are self employed contractors. You probably need to look at how he treats the day to day staff and from what I have seen and heard hes not bad at that. I feel like I started making your argument for you a bit here but good choice of topic 8/10
GoodCat: Another one I agree with overall. I think a lot of people think that in order to be a "good" boss or good leader, you have to be super likeable and loved by all, when that isn't the case at all. A good boss keeps their company running smoothly and makes their company a profit. And in a lot of cases, you pretty much have to be an asshole in order to make that happen. you mentioned some of the other leagues that have come and gone, Bellator, PFL, Strikeforce, Elite XC, even Pride couldn't last long term. One FC had to go to drastic measures just to stay alive. Affliction paid their fighters so much, they were never gonna be able to be sustainable long term. But yet, here is the UFC, still chugging away and at least monetarily, probably better off than they've ever been. There are very few nice guy bosses that can achieve this. 8/10
Brick: I think you overstate the degree to which Dana has a “bad boss” reputation. He’s still pretty revered in general around the sport, among fans, and gets a lot of love from a good percentage of the fighters due to the potentially life-changing opportunities he’s giving them. So I think you fail regarding how much this “unpopular” opinion actually diverts from the mainstream. Your argument was poorly constructed, rambling and even a bit incoherent at times. 4.5/10.
cmvideo75: Meh... I just don't know how universal this popular opinion is. I actually think the UFC wouldn't be anywhere near where it is without him and I don't think he's a terrible boss. So I think the unpopularity of this opinion is a little overstated. Dana is kind of like Trump... there are a lot of people that hate him but also plenty of people that don't. But only one opinion gets all the press for various reasons. Plus there was a lot of math in the middle of this write up. 6/10
Total: 26.5
All right guys, welcome back. This is the last round of the preliminaries, so make it count. The top 8 will advance to the quarterfinals and be ranked with their total scores.
This round will test your mma knowledge and power of persuasion. Our topic for this round is MMA Unpopular Opinions. To clarify, an unpopular opinion is a personal belief or viewpoint that goes against the mainstream, commonly held consensus, or the prevailing status quo. It describes a stance that is not widely accepted or favored by the majority.
You will pick an unpopular opinion on any MMA topic and present to the judges. You will try to convince the judges that your unpopular opinion is most likely more correct than the mainstream thought. Judges will score based on how much this unpopular opinion divert from the mainstream, the strength of the mma topic, and how much they are persuaded by this argument. For example an unpopular opinion on a topic like "Ring girls aren't necessary at mma fights" probably wouldn't be very high on the totem pole. Judges will make all the calls so try your best to convince them. You can use visuals like videos, graphs, pictures for your presentation, but the write-ups is your main selling point.
1. @Tito Orcheese
"Performance-Enhancing Drugs should be legalized in MMA."
It's fight night. You're sitting in the back getting taped up, running over things in your mind for the hundredth time. The eight-week camp went great; you shored up some weaknesses and improved on strengths. The weight-cut went about as smoothly as one could hope for, and you're feeling as good as ever for the first main event of your MMA career. You do feel like you're forgetting something, but not quite sure what it could be.
Fast-forward to the end of round 4. It's been a back-and-forth war, and you're feeling it. While not completely gassed, digging deep will very much be a requirement. It's fine; your opponent is feeling the same exact way. Up off the stool, you look across the cage to lock eyes with...the fucking Energizer Bunny? After being brutalized for five minutes by a man with a limitless gas tank, you remember what you had forgotten to do: learn how to cycle erythropoietin.
---
What a shame for that guy, huh? I bet that "win" bonus would've been nice. Whether he decided against the use of PEDs out of honor, or fear of pissing hot and being handed a lengthy suspension that would gut his bank account, his opponent clearly had no problem taking advantage of anything that might give him an edge to continue his upward trajectory at work.
Joe Rogan said there was a "steroid epidemic" plaguing MMA. Cheick Kongo claimed at least 50% of fighters take steroids. Chad Mendes stated he thinks it's closer to 80%. Nate Diaz said "everyone is on steroids." Who knows what the actual percentage is. During the USADA era, there was a reported 8.7% test failure rate, but we can all clearly see that there are more bacne breakouts in MMA than all the country's high schools combined! Ok, maybe that is a bit of an exaggeration, but you get my point.
Are they on steroids? Are they not on steroids? Let's just take the guesswork out of this shit. Open the gates! Let's not have fighters worrying if their opponent's PED regimen is more on point, or that their timing for passing tests is impeccable. And God help the minority of poor bastards that actually don't use PEDs. I'm all for everyone having the opportunity to compete on a level playing field.
Lastly, MMA fighters usually have a pretty small window in which they can make decent money. Most fighters won't make it to the top, bringing in the lucrative contracts with big paydays, meaning they need to be able to fight more often while staying competitive enough to secure a spot in their division. Regardless of which is which, I want them all to be able to make as much money as they can for as long as they can. Injuries and lengthy suspensions can be absolutely catastrophic financially for these people. Get rid of the tests, and let them feel free to use some roids to speed up their recovery!
Also, c'mon, who doesn't want to see their favorite fighters more often, for a longer period of time, and at their absolute peak? There's not a fan alive that didn't love watching TRT Vitor doing his thing at 36 yrs old.
webble: I don’t agree with this one and after reading the write up I still don’t agree with it, I didn’t like TRT Vitor and I don’t like that ‘look’ I think it would be a very tricky one from a betting point of view as, unless fighters publicly declared what they were taking then it really would be a gamble rather than an educated guess. Also don’t forget Josh Barnett got popped for PEDS and he never ‘looked’ like a user so with the exception of The American Gangster who can tell what someone’s on by looking how would you know? 3/10
GoodCat: I've been on this bandwagon for years. Fans wanna act like they give 2 shits about "fighter safety" or "the integrity of the sport". But we all know that's BS. Fans wanna see brutal knockouts, and the smart fans also wanna see great grappling and that limitless gas tank you talked about. Fighters talk about it not being an even playing field, well if you make PEDs legal, then everybody has the same opportunity again. Nobody cared in the summer of 1997 that McGuire and Sosa were juiced to the gills, they just wanted to see how many HRs they could hit. I'm all in on this one 10/10
Brick: Definitely an unpopular opinion (although not unheard of), and it’s a pretty strong MMA topic that has been discussed since about day one. But I remain unpersuaded by your argument, because you didn’t address the one major flaw with such a pivot: the damage to the reputation, and perhaps even survival, of the sport. MMA is already pretty polarizing, and opening the doors to unlimited PEDs (which no other major, legit sport does) would just give those who look at it as a joke/sideshow more ammunition, and rightfully so. Despite the argument presented here, I think this would be an utter disaster. 4/10.
cmvideo75: Not terrible. You hit the point on how I would have tried to argue this at the very end... it keeps your favorite fighters fighting at a higher level for longer. I mean as a fan, this is entertainment to me. If they don't care about the consequences, then why should I? The morality of it can be argued back and forth but tell me that the most memorable fights and fighters over the past 20 years haven't been juiced to the gills? I'm in! 7/10
Total:24
2. @FunnyHoneyBunny
Dana White is a good boss
To address the first doubt:
Yes.. this is 100% an unpopular opinion.
Go to any bigger MMA site and say Dana White is a good boss and out of 100 people around 105 will shit on you.
If he saves 3 children in a burning building, they will complain, why he did not save 4.
That is by definition an unpopular opinion.
The reason why i still want to make this claim:
UFC fighter have the chance to earn a lot of money and that is manely because of how the UFC was managed in the last 20~ years.
The common theme is:
"Fighters pay is shit, compare it to soccer, NFL, Basketball."
The problem is:
In those sports you do not get paid by the league. You get paid by the team. And the team wants the best players.
Those players will follow the money of 20-30 different teams and that drives salaries up.
We should compare it to boxing.
And if you look at boxing (the way WAY bigger sport compared to MMA, which is still small in most countries) people outside of any top 20 earn nothing.
It does not help them in any way that the Furys and Wilders are multimillionaires.
They also need a second job, just like UFC fighters in the smallest contracts.
If we include that boxing generates much more money, the UFC fighters purse is not that smaller.
In fact.. they produced a lot of millionaires themselves:
https://mmasalaries.com/
This would not have happened, if Dana came in and said:
"We will pay our fighters every second penny we earn."
Every MMA company that tried that failed.
If boxing, a over a century old sport can't do it, how should a new sport like MMA manage it?
It needs investors. And they don't grow on trees.. unlike fighters.
Dana knew he needs to keep the investors happy, not the fighters.
And because of that, the UFC grew so big, that we now have 600 fighters in the by far biggest league (yeah.. it's not you.. ONE FC..)
If a guy like Jared Gordon who goes home with 100k, if he wins the fight, i would say the company and the payment are in a way better spot, than without an asshole like Dana.
With 600 fighters there will be many, that do not earn that much money.
But MMA is a very flat sport.
Compare it to NBA. There are only 450 players in the NBA.
Across the US there are 24.3 million registered players.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basketball_in_the_United_States
There are no 30 Million MMA fighter on the whole planet.
That means, the 600 fighters can't expect to earn the same money as other top leagues in other sports, because MMA is not build like that.
If you make it into the NBA you won against 24 Million people.
To get to the UFC you have to jump over 2-3 leagues max and you already have your spot in the biggest league.
Only because both the UFC and the NBA are the number one league, does not make every fighter/player comparable.
People still complain that Dana is earning more, than the fighters.. i have never seen a company, where the boss doesn't earn the most money..
Now people will argue, that the other leagues handle it differently.
Bellator, PFL, ONE FC.
Yeah.. they have some fighters that earn a shit ton of money.
That lead to Bellator closing down and PFL not wanting to pay that money and ONE FC to cut half their roster.
And they all spend that money in the first place, to compete with the UFC.
Without the UFC Francis would not have gotten 10 Million from the PFL for a fight that nobody paid to watch.
Without the UFC Jake Paul would not claim to pay so much for his fighters (which.. he doesn't even do..)
Without Dana being an asshole, none of those leagues would pay their fighters even 10k/10k.
Dana turned this into a stable sport (for the UFC) and still continues to grow.
There have been bad decisions, there have been fighters who .. did not get treated well,
but in the end the UFC pays 600 fighters (at the time of writing this) they money and i would assume most of them do not need a second job anymore.
Ofc there is more to a good boss than they payment.
And yeah.. he slapped his wife in front of everyone.
That shows he is a POS, but what a boss does outside of the company is kinda irrelevant.
He also is a very VERY emotional guy, that fires fighters he hates or gives them (through Hunter, Silva, etc.) tough fights.
I won't deny this, but he showed the same kind of behaviour in a positive way.
If fighters perform on a card, he gives them a locker room bonus, without mentioning it. (maybe because other fighters want that bonus as well.. but we can't say that)
He also shows it, when he tipps the server at the blackjack table, but.. that again is his private stuff and does not count here.
For Dana i always feel like the UFC is his "video game".
He wants it to grow, if some fans or some fighters get lost on the way, but the company grows, he will choose that way, because that is winning.
And that will always be a "cold hearted" thing, but this kind of drive made the UFC what it is today.
You can't have the same growth AND those salaries/purses we have today in the UFC already 15 years ago.
If the fighters would have made a union possible 10 years ago, the UFC would not have been in front of the white house (what ever you personally think about that card)
With that being said..
Dana White is a POS but a good boss
webble: I had never really thought too hard about this one so didn’t have a pre-formed opinion, good choice of topic. I like the point about players being paid by teams rather than the organisation, again something I hadn’t thought of ( do I just need to do more thinking? ) I think the writer of this piece got a little off track at the start focusing on pay and just as I was thinking that’s not just what makes a good boss they pointed that out themselves and brought it back on topic. I think it’s a difficult subject in that Dana isn’t technically their boss when it comes to the fighters as they are self employed contractors. You probably need to look at how he treats the day to day staff and from what I have seen and heard hes not bad at that. I feel like I started making your argument for you a bit here but good choice of topic 8/10
GoodCat: Another one I agree with overall. I think a lot of people think that in order to be a "good" boss or good leader, you have to be super likeable and loved by all, when that isn't the case at all. A good boss keeps their company running smoothly and makes their company a profit. And in a lot of cases, you pretty much have to be an asshole in order to make that happen. you mentioned some of the other leagues that have come and gone, Bellator, PFL, Strikeforce, Elite XC, even Pride couldn't last long term. One FC had to go to drastic measures just to stay alive. Affliction paid their fighters so much, they were never gonna be able to be sustainable long term. But yet, here is the UFC, still chugging away and at least monetarily, probably better off than they've ever been. There are very few nice guy bosses that can achieve this. 8/10
Brick: I think you overstate the degree to which Dana has a “bad boss” reputation. He’s still pretty revered in general around the sport, among fans, and gets a lot of love from a good percentage of the fighters due to the potentially life-changing opportunities he’s giving them. So I think you fail regarding how much this “unpopular” opinion actually diverts from the mainstream. Your argument was poorly constructed, rambling and even a bit incoherent at times. 4.5/10.
cmvideo75: Meh... I just don't know how universal this popular opinion is. I actually think the UFC wouldn't be anywhere near where it is without him and I don't think he's a terrible boss. So I think the unpopularity of this opinion is a little overstated. Dana is kind of like Trump... there are a lot of people that hate him but also plenty of people that don't. But only one opinion gets all the press for various reasons. Plus there was a lot of math in the middle of this write up. 6/10
Total: 26.5
thedarkwingduck2k11
Well-known member
3. @bconcrete
"Leon Edwards did not deserve the title shot he got for Leon/Usman II"
Hello ladies, gentlemen, friends, and other. I come before you today to share one of my most strongly held opinions in all of MMA.
We all remember this moment:
Many celebrate it as a great moment for the UFC. I do not. I mourn it. Why? Because this is the exact moment that the once great Welterweight division officially became the WelterWAITS. It's not a conclusion or a coronation. It's the start of a goddamn horror movie that we are all still living.
View attachment 549
My unpopular opinion: Leon Edwards and his whiny, bitch-ass diva-ness are responsible for the current impacted colon of a division we all must suffer with. HE SHOULD NOT HAVE BEEN IN THAT SECOND USMAN FIGHT IN THE FIRST PLACE!!!
Everyone likes to point to his 11 fight unbeaten streak as the reason why he was there, but let's look closer at that streak. Here are the fighters we would consider having "name value" on that resume: Belal, Nate, RDA, Cowboy, and Luque. Of those 5, 3 are LWs that moved up, were at least six years older than him, and were reaching the very tail of their prime (best case) when they fought. Of the remaining two, Luque and Belal, he beat Luque five and a half years before the title shot and Belal was a no contest. This is not a strong resume for a title shot. The reamining list of people that make up his vaunted resume? Dominic Waters, Albert Tumenov, Bryan Barberena, Peter Sobotta, Gunnar Nelson. And that's it. . That’s the resume for a championship fight apparently. Thinner than Mary-Kate Olson sponsored truck stop toilet paper.
To recap, Lenny was given a title shot for:
First, go fuck yourself. Second, it was TEN wins, he had a no contest before nearly blinding Belal (which would have been a far better outcome for the division in retrospect, but I digress), so it's an UNBEATEN streak. Finally, let’s look at how he won on this streak. Of those ten fights that got him a title shot, he had… two finishes. Two (2). Seven decisions. One no-contest. That is a record of fight performance that is as flat as Hank Hill’s ass.
"Ok fine, you don't need to curse at me, sure, his resume is weak, and not exciting but he was still the top candidate in the division for the shot!"
Was he though? (Also, still go fuck yourself, quit questioning me, this is my passion project) There was a guy IN THAT SAME DIVISION who went 10-1 over that four-year period with NINE stoppages. His only loss during that run was the last great Wonderboy performance in a pretty exciting fight. Who was that guy?
Vicente Luque. Yes, he had previously lost to Lenny. FOUR YEARS EARLIER before rattling off that MUCH more impressive streak than the skidmark of a streak fucking Lenny wouldn't shut up about.
Instead of fighting Usman, it should have been AT LEAST a #1 Contender's match in a rematch against Luque, if not giving Luque the title shot outright because Lenny is whiny diva bitch. The case makes itself: 11-0-1 with two finishes over five and a half years vs 10-1 with nine finishes over four years. I still think you can make a very good argument for giving Luque the shot outright, but some have accused me of bias on this take.
So why didn't that happen? Because one guy said shit like this:
https://mmajunkie.usatoday.com/2021...t-without-putting-down-strategic-leon-edwards
And the other guy kept running his cock-holster and saying shit like this:
https://www.mmafighting.com/2021/3/...chance-came-up-short-i-deserve-the-title-shot
So at the end of the day, Dana got tired of listening to Lenny's bitch ass whining, put him in there with Usman, and inadvertently exposed the whole fucking division to Patient fucking Zero of Diva-itis. Now the whole division thinks the blueprint is to sit on your ranking until you can carefully curate your resume, bitch your tits off, and wait for a title shot.
And let's not forget, Lenny lost the goddamn belt to Belal, somehow the only human more boring and unlikable than he is! Ugh. ANYWAYS. You can say "Yeah {redacted}, but Lenny probably beats Luque and gets a shot at Usman anyways and we're still in this spot."
To that I saywhy aren't you still fucking yourself we can Sliding Doors anything we want. That's definitely a possibility. But as LENNY HIMSELF proved over 24 boring as fuck minutes punctuated with 5 explosive seconds, you never know for sure. I could also argue that Lenny loses and decides to cut his dick off and use it as a microphone to sing show tunes on the subway.
What we know for sure is the good guy was passed over for being too nice, the bad guy was rewarded for being a whiny punk bitch, and the whole division is now about as far a cry as you can imagine from these glorious days:
Man, fuck Lenny and all those who have emulated his blueprint since. He wasn't the first to do it, but he was the worst and I'll never forgive him.
webble: Did you forget that one of your judges was a Brit when coming up with this topic??? Hmmmm??? If he didn’t deserve it fine but he did and he won. You needed to have a strong argument to change my mind of this one so nope, I’ll be generous with a 2/10
GoodCat: Okay, interesting take. I'm not sure I'm 100% on board with you on it, but not a bad pick at all. The whole time I was reading I was waiting for you to get to the part where you gave examples of who should have had the title shot instead of him. And while you did get to it finally, it was only 1 guy and it just so happened to be the guy that Leon beat lol. To me, that kinda speaks to how thin the division was at that point that you couldn't use any other fighters that would have even been considered for the title shot over him. 6.5/10
Brick: Not bad. At first I thought your point might go down in flames, because with a win streak like that a shot is often inevitable. Also, the fact that he WON the title shot is the strongest evidence possible that he deserved it; it showed the matchmakers knew what they were doing, and you did not. However, you salvage some points for a couple of reasons. Including an alternative deserving fighter was clutch; otherwise your argument is just like “I don’t want Lenny but don’t ask me who else it should have been.” You were able to answer that. Plus, the write-up was entertaining in general. 7.5/10
cmvideo75: Ha. This one cracked me up. I kind of agree with the opinion but I don't think that many people care. Especially now as an on-going 'issue'. Plus an 11 fight winning streak is tough to argue against no matter who is on that list. This argument relied on shitting on 5 other name fighters that he beat. But I do like the passion this contestant came at it with though. I'm just looking for an overwhelming popular opinion and this is just too specific. 5/10
Total:21
4. @TheIronSheik
No Fat Chicks?
MMA Slams the Door on the Average American Woman
What was once a taboo subject amongst the remnants of our puritan roots - i.e. women fighting each other - is now a mere conversation starter around water coolers across offices across the country. Names like Ronda Rousey and Gina Carano have become big time names amongst fight enthusiasts and movie goers alike - proving the topic of women fighting like men is no longer a distasteful, unladylike spectacle but rather a cultural phenonemon that is only gaining popularity.
Young girls can idolize their favorite female fighter and say I want to do that too and, given the status of their heroines, it seems within reach. The pinnacle of fighting, the UFC, the absolute most one can aspire to as a mixed martial artist.
However, there's a problem for these young girls.
The UFC has turned it's back on most American women.
The UFC, the preeminent fighting promotion that was the springboard to Rousey's and Carano's undeniable notoriety, only offers four weight classes for women - the heaviest topping out at 145 pounds.
The average American woman of fighting age weighs 170 pounds.
Should a woman not be a "featherweight", she could never compete in the UFC.
In a past interview with Rolling Stone, Dana White stated that there simply isn't a talent pool amongst women weighing more than 145 pounds. "I don't know what to tell you other than we haven't had any [fat chicks] come knocking." [Implied bias added].
Mathematically, this makes no sense.
The Olympics don't fair much better. Women heavyweight wrestlers top out at approximately 167 pounds (76kg) and women boxers are capped as middleweights at 165 (75kg). Still, this leaves out half of American women.
The Olympic Committee doesn't explicitly state their reasoning but to their credit, the mean average weight of women internationally is likely a lot lower than it is in the United States so an argument could be made that this in the spirit of international competitiveness. The Olympics is ran by committee after all.
Dana White has no such problem. A fighter weighs what they weigh and he promotes them as he sees fit.
So why no women fighters over 145 pounds?
Monaye, 23, of Henderson, Nevada - mere minutes away from Las Vegas, the home of the UFC - wants to be a fighter, but instead, is on probation. The widely adored story of the UFC fighter finding his way to the Octagon by virtue of a tough life fighting in the streets is not available to Monaye. Instead, she's 5' 10", weighs 220 pounds, and was recently charged with battery against a peace officer because she suspected that he had farted in her general vicinity.
"This [expletive] cop comes into my [expletive] Denny's and rips a dirty [expletive] fart five [expletive] feet away from me. I was like hell [no] you [expletive]." Monaye told this reporter when she agreed to a phone call. "So I beat the [expletive] out of him."
Monaye's Parole Officer, Steven, who was also on the call, made his thoughts known about the need for Monaye to have an outlet for what has been a pattern of misplaced aggression that has never had an outlet.
"This most recent battery charge is the second she's had on her adult record. There's a lot of near misses here too. It's a shame that she couldn't put this to use somewhere other than a Denny's or the parking lot outside OshKosh B'Gosh."
Davon, 26, Monaye's cousin, has no doubt that she would fare well in the UFC. "Oh she DEFINITELY has what it takes." He told this reporter in response to an email inquiry. "One time she made me pick up the gum I had spit in the street outside her house with my bare ass in the middle of summer. She made my eight year old daughter watch while I did it. I got second degree burns from the asphalt."
When asked if she thought she could make it in the UFC, Monaye replied affirmatively. "Hell [expletive] yeah I could."
So why doesn't Monaye get a shot? An arbitrary weight limit that lacks any logical connection to the average American woman?
This makes no sense.
Dana White's evasive answer to this question is mathematically improbable, which is just his way of saying the quiet part [no fat chicks] out loud.
It's the last remaining remnant of the puritan roots we've travelled so far away from. It's the last barrier to young women of all weight classes pursuing their MMA dreams as they watch their female heroes in the octagon and on the big screen. It's the reason why Monaye is banned from all Denny's locations in the Las Vegas Metropolitan area and Davon's daughter can no longer look him in the eye.
The madness needs to end here.
Women need not be featherweights to chase their dreams of heavyweight success.
We need to tell Dana White: Let the fat chicks fight.
webble: This is another good choice of topic however there are flaws in the writers argument. He focuses in on the average American female being 170lb, that sounded a lot to me at 5ft 6 and 142lb so I went to look up the average height of an American woman – 5ft 4! I then looked up the BMI for that combination – 29.2!!! that’s Obese. The problem isn’t that there aren’t weight classes the problem is that the average American woman is overweight and wouldn’t be able to train to the standard required from mma and once they did they would lose weight and be in a lower weight class. I accept there are exceptions but as Dana said probably not enough to warrant a weight class. Good choice of topic but I don’t agree sorry 5/10
GoodCat: Man, Monaye's story really lingered with me for quite a while. I like the humor you brough to the topic, so I'm gonna give a couple bonus points for that. The argument itself, though, isn't a super strong one. I don't have time to look up any real statistics, but I'm sure of all the "average" 170 pound women out there, tons and tons of them are out of shape and nowhere near the ability to fight. That's why you see women like Gabi Garcia having to take these 1 off fights because there aren't enough in shape women of that size to fill out a full division. The fact you've had Cyborg and Megan Anderson having to cut huge amounts of weight just to be able to fight in a 145 pound division speaks to that. They'd both probably be much better fighting at 155 or even 165, but there's literally no one else around. And if you did start letting "fat chicks" start fighting, we'd be seeing a bunch of female Roy Nelsons gas out and flop all over each other within the first round. 6/10
Brick: You went for it with a risky heavy-satire post. But you failed. First of all, logically, if a woman is walking around at 170 you feel she is “excluded,” but actually at that walking-around weight she should be fighting at 145 anyway, so the door is wide open. Plus, this is an entertainment product, and we see enough fat chicks everywhere in this country without having to watch them in sports instead of couple of hotties throwing down, so you didn’t really address if this would be entertaining at all, which may have helped your point. And is this a “strong” MMA issue that people care about? Absolutely not. Even Dana, in your own write-up, says there doesn’t appear to be much if any interest from larger women anyway. 3/10
cmvideo75: What? I literally don't know anyone who is talking about this. We are on an MMA site every day for years and this is never a topic. Maybe a few blips whenever Cyborg pops up but that's it. No one I know cares at all about this or has any opinion. So I don't think 'fat chicks shouldn't fight' is the overwhelming popular opinion among MMA fans... because that is what you are arguing against... which might be Dana White's opinion but definitely not MMA fans. 1/10
Total:15
"Leon Edwards did not deserve the title shot he got for Leon/Usman II"
Hello ladies, gentlemen, friends, and other. I come before you today to share one of my most strongly held opinions in all of MMA.
We all remember this moment:
Many celebrate it as a great moment for the UFC. I do not. I mourn it. Why? Because this is the exact moment that the once great Welterweight division officially became the WelterWAITS. It's not a conclusion or a coronation. It's the start of a goddamn horror movie that we are all still living.
View attachment 549
My unpopular opinion: Leon Edwards and his whiny, bitch-ass diva-ness are responsible for the current impacted colon of a division we all must suffer with. HE SHOULD NOT HAVE BEEN IN THAT SECOND USMAN FIGHT IN THE FIRST PLACE!!!
Everyone likes to point to his 11 fight unbeaten streak as the reason why he was there, but let's look closer at that streak. Here are the fighters we would consider having "name value" on that resume: Belal, Nate, RDA, Cowboy, and Luque. Of those 5, 3 are LWs that moved up, were at least six years older than him, and were reaching the very tail of their prime (best case) when they fought. Of the remaining two, Luque and Belal, he beat Luque five and a half years before the title shot and Belal was a no contest. This is not a strong resume for a title shot. The reamining list of people that make up his vaunted resume? Dominic Waters, Albert Tumenov, Bryan Barberena, Peter Sobotta, Gunnar Nelson. And that's it. . That’s the resume for a championship fight apparently. Thinner than Mary-Kate Olson sponsored truck stop toilet paper.
To recap, Lenny was given a title shot for:
- Beating three older, puffed up LWs that were on the last gasps of their prime
- Beating five low-to-mid tier WW’s
- Eyepoking Belal
- Beating Luque five years before his title shot
First, go fuck yourself. Second, it was TEN wins, he had a no contest before nearly blinding Belal (which would have been a far better outcome for the division in retrospect, but I digress), so it's an UNBEATEN streak. Finally, let’s look at how he won on this streak. Of those ten fights that got him a title shot, he had… two finishes. Two (2). Seven decisions. One no-contest. That is a record of fight performance that is as flat as Hank Hill’s ass.
"Ok fine, you don't need to curse at me, sure, his resume is weak, and not exciting but he was still the top candidate in the division for the shot!"
Was he though? (Also, still go fuck yourself, quit questioning me, this is my passion project) There was a guy IN THAT SAME DIVISION who went 10-1 over that four-year period with NINE stoppages. His only loss during that run was the last great Wonderboy performance in a pretty exciting fight. Who was that guy?
Vicente Luque. Yes, he had previously lost to Lenny. FOUR YEARS EARLIER before rattling off that MUCH more impressive streak than the skidmark of a streak fucking Lenny wouldn't shut up about.
Instead of fighting Usman, it should have been AT LEAST a #1 Contender's match in a rematch against Luque, if not giving Luque the title shot outright because Lenny is whiny diva bitch. The case makes itself: 11-0-1 with two finishes over five and a half years vs 10-1 with nine finishes over four years. I still think you can make a very good argument for giving Luque the shot outright, but some have accused me of bias on this take.
So why didn't that happen? Because one guy said shit like this:
https://mmajunkie.usatoday.com/2021...t-without-putting-down-strategic-leon-edwards
And the other guy kept running his cock-holster and saying shit like this:
https://www.mmafighting.com/2021/3/...chance-came-up-short-i-deserve-the-title-shot
So at the end of the day, Dana got tired of listening to Lenny's bitch ass whining, put him in there with Usman, and inadvertently exposed the whole fucking division to Patient fucking Zero of Diva-itis. Now the whole division thinks the blueprint is to sit on your ranking until you can carefully curate your resume, bitch your tits off, and wait for a title shot.
And let's not forget, Lenny lost the goddamn belt to Belal, somehow the only human more boring and unlikable than he is! Ugh. ANYWAYS. You can say "Yeah {redacted}, but Lenny probably beats Luque and gets a shot at Usman anyways and we're still in this spot."
To that I say
What we know for sure is the good guy was passed over for being too nice, the bad guy was rewarded for being a whiny punk bitch, and the whole division is now about as far a cry as you can imagine from these glorious days:
Man, fuck Lenny and all those who have emulated his blueprint since. He wasn't the first to do it, but he was the worst and I'll never forgive him.
webble: Did you forget that one of your judges was a Brit when coming up with this topic??? Hmmmm??? If he didn’t deserve it fine but he did and he won. You needed to have a strong argument to change my mind of this one so nope, I’ll be generous with a 2/10
GoodCat: Okay, interesting take. I'm not sure I'm 100% on board with you on it, but not a bad pick at all. The whole time I was reading I was waiting for you to get to the part where you gave examples of who should have had the title shot instead of him. And while you did get to it finally, it was only 1 guy and it just so happened to be the guy that Leon beat lol. To me, that kinda speaks to how thin the division was at that point that you couldn't use any other fighters that would have even been considered for the title shot over him. 6.5/10
Brick: Not bad. At first I thought your point might go down in flames, because with a win streak like that a shot is often inevitable. Also, the fact that he WON the title shot is the strongest evidence possible that he deserved it; it showed the matchmakers knew what they were doing, and you did not. However, you salvage some points for a couple of reasons. Including an alternative deserving fighter was clutch; otherwise your argument is just like “I don’t want Lenny but don’t ask me who else it should have been.” You were able to answer that. Plus, the write-up was entertaining in general. 7.5/10
cmvideo75: Ha. This one cracked me up. I kind of agree with the opinion but I don't think that many people care. Especially now as an on-going 'issue'. Plus an 11 fight winning streak is tough to argue against no matter who is on that list. This argument relied on shitting on 5 other name fighters that he beat. But I do like the passion this contestant came at it with though. I'm just looking for an overwhelming popular opinion and this is just too specific. 5/10
Total:21
4. @TheIronSheik
No Fat Chicks?
MMA Slams the Door on the Average American Woman
What was once a taboo subject amongst the remnants of our puritan roots - i.e. women fighting each other - is now a mere conversation starter around water coolers across offices across the country. Names like Ronda Rousey and Gina Carano have become big time names amongst fight enthusiasts and movie goers alike - proving the topic of women fighting like men is no longer a distasteful, unladylike spectacle but rather a cultural phenonemon that is only gaining popularity.
Young girls can idolize their favorite female fighter and say I want to do that too and, given the status of their heroines, it seems within reach. The pinnacle of fighting, the UFC, the absolute most one can aspire to as a mixed martial artist.
However, there's a problem for these young girls.
The UFC has turned it's back on most American women.
The UFC, the preeminent fighting promotion that was the springboard to Rousey's and Carano's undeniable notoriety, only offers four weight classes for women - the heaviest topping out at 145 pounds.
The average American woman of fighting age weighs 170 pounds.
Should a woman not be a "featherweight", she could never compete in the UFC.
In a past interview with Rolling Stone, Dana White stated that there simply isn't a talent pool amongst women weighing more than 145 pounds. "I don't know what to tell you other than we haven't had any [fat chicks] come knocking." [Implied bias added].
Mathematically, this makes no sense.
The Olympics don't fair much better. Women heavyweight wrestlers top out at approximately 167 pounds (76kg) and women boxers are capped as middleweights at 165 (75kg). Still, this leaves out half of American women.
The Olympic Committee doesn't explicitly state their reasoning but to their credit, the mean average weight of women internationally is likely a lot lower than it is in the United States so an argument could be made that this in the spirit of international competitiveness. The Olympics is ran by committee after all.
Dana White has no such problem. A fighter weighs what they weigh and he promotes them as he sees fit.
So why no women fighters over 145 pounds?
Monaye, 23, of Henderson, Nevada - mere minutes away from Las Vegas, the home of the UFC - wants to be a fighter, but instead, is on probation. The widely adored story of the UFC fighter finding his way to the Octagon by virtue of a tough life fighting in the streets is not available to Monaye. Instead, she's 5' 10", weighs 220 pounds, and was recently charged with battery against a peace officer because she suspected that he had farted in her general vicinity.
"This [expletive] cop comes into my [expletive] Denny's and rips a dirty [expletive] fart five [expletive] feet away from me. I was like hell [no] you [expletive]." Monaye told this reporter when she agreed to a phone call. "So I beat the [expletive] out of him."
Monaye's Parole Officer, Steven, who was also on the call, made his thoughts known about the need for Monaye to have an outlet for what has been a pattern of misplaced aggression that has never had an outlet.
"This most recent battery charge is the second she's had on her adult record. There's a lot of near misses here too. It's a shame that she couldn't put this to use somewhere other than a Denny's or the parking lot outside OshKosh B'Gosh."
Davon, 26, Monaye's cousin, has no doubt that she would fare well in the UFC. "Oh she DEFINITELY has what it takes." He told this reporter in response to an email inquiry. "One time she made me pick up the gum I had spit in the street outside her house with my bare ass in the middle of summer. She made my eight year old daughter watch while I did it. I got second degree burns from the asphalt."
When asked if she thought she could make it in the UFC, Monaye replied affirmatively. "Hell [expletive] yeah I could."
So why doesn't Monaye get a shot? An arbitrary weight limit that lacks any logical connection to the average American woman?
This makes no sense.
Dana White's evasive answer to this question is mathematically improbable, which is just his way of saying the quiet part [no fat chicks] out loud.
It's the last remaining remnant of the puritan roots we've travelled so far away from. It's the last barrier to young women of all weight classes pursuing their MMA dreams as they watch their female heroes in the octagon and on the big screen. It's the reason why Monaye is banned from all Denny's locations in the Las Vegas Metropolitan area and Davon's daughter can no longer look him in the eye.
The madness needs to end here.
Women need not be featherweights to chase their dreams of heavyweight success.
We need to tell Dana White: Let the fat chicks fight.
webble: This is another good choice of topic however there are flaws in the writers argument. He focuses in on the average American female being 170lb, that sounded a lot to me at 5ft 6 and 142lb so I went to look up the average height of an American woman – 5ft 4! I then looked up the BMI for that combination – 29.2!!! that’s Obese. The problem isn’t that there aren’t weight classes the problem is that the average American woman is overweight and wouldn’t be able to train to the standard required from mma and once they did they would lose weight and be in a lower weight class. I accept there are exceptions but as Dana said probably not enough to warrant a weight class. Good choice of topic but I don’t agree sorry 5/10
GoodCat: Man, Monaye's story really lingered with me for quite a while. I like the humor you brough to the topic, so I'm gonna give a couple bonus points for that. The argument itself, though, isn't a super strong one. I don't have time to look up any real statistics, but I'm sure of all the "average" 170 pound women out there, tons and tons of them are out of shape and nowhere near the ability to fight. That's why you see women like Gabi Garcia having to take these 1 off fights because there aren't enough in shape women of that size to fill out a full division. The fact you've had Cyborg and Megan Anderson having to cut huge amounts of weight just to be able to fight in a 145 pound division speaks to that. They'd both probably be much better fighting at 155 or even 165, but there's literally no one else around. And if you did start letting "fat chicks" start fighting, we'd be seeing a bunch of female Roy Nelsons gas out and flop all over each other within the first round. 6/10
Brick: You went for it with a risky heavy-satire post. But you failed. First of all, logically, if a woman is walking around at 170 you feel she is “excluded,” but actually at that walking-around weight she should be fighting at 145 anyway, so the door is wide open. Plus, this is an entertainment product, and we see enough fat chicks everywhere in this country without having to watch them in sports instead of couple of hotties throwing down, so you didn’t really address if this would be entertaining at all, which may have helped your point. And is this a “strong” MMA issue that people care about? Absolutely not. Even Dana, in your own write-up, says there doesn’t appear to be much if any interest from larger women anyway. 3/10
cmvideo75: What? I literally don't know anyone who is talking about this. We are on an MMA site every day for years and this is never a topic. Maybe a few blips whenever Cyborg pops up but that's it. No one I know cares at all about this or has any opinion. So I don't think 'fat chicks shouldn't fight' is the overwhelming popular opinion among MMA fans... because that is what you are arguing against... which might be Dana White's opinion but definitely not MMA fans. 1/10
Total:15
thedarkwingduck2k11
Well-known member
5. @Rickyc123
The UFC APEX is better for MMA than fans want to admit and should stay long term:
hear people complain about the UFC APEX cards every week, talking about how they can't wait until the UFC stop holding them and it boils my blood.
The first thing I want to make clear is that I'm not arguing that the Apex should replace arena events. Big fights belong in front of big crowds. Championship fights belong in soldout arenas. That's not the argument.
The argument is that the UFC schedule is better with Apex events than without them.
One of my personal favourite aspects of the APEX is that it allows highly skilled fighters in smaller weight classes to headline five round main events because let's be honest it's the casual fans (not us) that drive ticket sales. When the UFC is trying to sell out an arena they are going to prioritise the more recognisable names and bigger stars. As a result, many elite flyweights and bantamweights would never get the opportunity to headline a card.
Instead, the Apex has given us five round main events involving fighters whose skill levels far exceeded their popularity. We've seen fighters such as Tatsuro Taira, Cory Sandhagen, Brandon Royval and Song Yadong all receive multiple main event opportunities at the APEX that otherwise would likely be a three round featured prelim on an arena card. Fans who actually appreciate high level MMA get to see these fights play out over 25 minutes. I mean just look at this weekend's card with Manel Kape and Kyoji Horigichi (which pretty much everyone is looking forward to), this bout wouldn't main event anywhere but Japan and if it was anywhere else, the casual fans (not degenerates like us) would be complainimg about not having enough star power in the main event.
The Apex has also accelerated fighter development which is something that people often overlook. The example I like to use is Tom Aspinall compared to Arnold Allen. For years, Allen was one of the best featherweights in the world (unbeaten in the UFC for 8 years), but his career progression often felt slower because he was repeatedly being saved for UK and European events. When those opportunities were unavailable, his activity suffered. When looking at Aspinall comparatively, Aspinall was able to stay active in the APEX finishing both Arlovski and Spivac so that by the time the UFC returned to the UK, he had already built enough credibility to headline against Volkov. The APEX helped turn him into a recognisable name. The Apex creates more opportunities for fighters to compete regularly instead of waiting for specific regional cards.
Another unintended benefit is judging/refereeing. We often complain about home cooking and crowd influence. How many times have we seen the referee prematurely stand fighters up after some boos when the hometown guy has been taken down or the judges award rounds to the wrong guy because the crowd roars when the local guy lands a jab. This is almost eliminated with the lack of a crowd there.
The Apex also allows technical fights to be appreciated in ways that arena crowds often don't. A good example is Tsarukyan vs Gamrot. Now we look back at it as one of the best lightweight fights in the last 5 years but when the fight happened neither were considered stars (or known by the casual fan). If that fight plays out in front of a crowd, there's a real possibility that a five round main event between two relatively unknown grapplers could easily have been met with boos from fans wanting knockouts and big name fighters. Instead, the Apex allowed two elite fighters to showcase an incredibly high level, technical battle without being judged by crowd reactions and being able to hear and pick up everything from their corners.
My final argument is the silence, the absence of the crowd allows. We're able to hear everything. From the corner advice, to every single punch, kick and slam. We can hear for ourself when a strike actually lands and how effective it actually is. Look at a fight like Marlon Vera vs Rob Font. Font outlanded Vera as a whole but Vera audibly landed the harder and more effective shots.
To conclude the UFC APEX is better for MMA than fans want to admit and for the progression of this sport. It helps create stars that otherwise never would have had a chance especially in weight classes that need them like Flyweight/Bantamweight.
That is why UFC Apex events should stay for the long term.
webble: I actually agree with this one so you were onto a winner to start with. I agree for some of the same reasons but also I’m not always a big fan of crowds and in particular the way they influence a ref at times happy with this one 9/10
GoodCat: Another good submission. I can definitely see the argument and I pretty much agree with it. I like the aspect of showing off the lighter weight fighters to main event, and then more of the young, up and comers to get featured and get some actual UFC experience under their belts. If you're a fan of wrestling at all, the Apex cards feel like NXT. NXT is WWE's "developmental" promotion, they tape all their weekly shows from the WWE Performance Center, which is pretty much the same as UFC's Apex. It gives the young fighters the chance to work out their characters and in ring skills in front to live fans, and then they sprinkle in a veteran or two to main event so the fans can see someone they recognize. 8/10
Brick: Was a bit surprised to see this called an “unpopular opinion,” but did some internet sleuthing and it does appear people complain about these events. I put those people in the same category as those who complain about Thursday night NFL games as being not as good; my opinion, well, it sure beats NO game at all. You make some good points I agree with; the lack of crowd noise gives me nostalgia for the old-school TUF fights, many of which were quite good despite the lack of crowd. Good of you to say that you don’t want them to replace arena events or think they are better or anything like that, but rather that there is room for both and a place for this small venue that is beneficial to the fighters and the sport. I’m not sure how much of this is REALLY an unpopular opinion, or if those who complain about Apex are just the loud minority of viewer types who bitch and moan about everything (you know, like the fighter-pay-complaining-losers back in the day). Still, not bad, 7/10.
cmvideo75: I like this one. I don't know how heated this opinion is but I definitely hear people complain about the Apex cards, although it does seem to be cooling down a bit. But this is a very cohesive argument that is very well explained in the write up with 4 or 5 arguments for the Apex that make real MMA sense. So this is a decent argument with a great write up. So far this has been the best argument for an opinion.9/10
Total:33
6. darkwing
Brock Lesnar had the single greatest incredible title run in MMA history.
Alright be honest, how many of you immediately scoff when you saw this claim? Was it something you ever considered in the past 20 years or a narrative the mma mainstream ran with? Nope. Why? Cause mainstream media and fans have always associated Brock Lesnar with "fake fighting" from WWE and don't ever truly consider the magnitude of his success story in the UFC, and give him the credit he rightly deserved. A guy with virtually no mma fighting experience asked Dana White to let him fight only the top ranked fighters in the UFC's most prestigious weight class and not only did he survive but thrive. Instead of being a joke like other UFC crossovers namely James Tony, Kimbo Slice, and CM Punk, Brock was the one with the last laugh. It was a pill mainstream mma media and fans might find hard to swallow or accept when they saw Brock ran through the division and stomping on their fan favorite heavyweights . My contention is Brock Lesnar had the single greatest incredible title run in MMA history.
With one fight that lasted about a minute, serving as his entire mma background and experience, Brock was immediately thrown to the sharks in the greatest mma organization in the world. Not only did he succeed but he did it convincingly, outgrappling and knocking the shit out of ufc legends like Frank Mir, Heath Herring, Randy Couture, and Shane Carwin. This isn't the only case of a successful crossover from wrestling to MMA. We've seen olympic wrestlers like Cormier and Cejudo win titles, but what made this case with Brock unique was how fast and convincingly it happened. 1 minute of total mma fight experience, and then he's immediately fighting and destroying the top heavyweights in the world's best mma organization. Anyone who train and compete in mixed martial arts would understand how impossible and Herculean this feat is. If your argument against Brock was that he was probably juiced to the gills when this happen, my counter would be can you be totally sure if any of them are clean.
Let's put it into another perspective, around this time the UFC was trying to get the man, the myth, the heavyweight legend Fedor. However Fedor denied the UFC his greatness and later signed with Strikeforce. Brock Lesnar essentially accomplished what mma fans expected Fedor to do in the UFC, that is walk through the division and win the HW title.. Meanwhile, with all his might and legendary status, Fedor couldn't conquer Strikeforce, going 1-3 during his stint. So let's remove the names and let me ask you this: One guy is a consensus #1 heavyweight in the mma world and a Pride HW champion, the other guy only has a college wrestling background, a WWE title and virtually no mma experience, who would you expect to run through the UFC and become champ, and who would you pick to struggle in the lesser organization Strikeforce. I rest my case.
So the next time some casual at a UFC watch party brings up Brock Lesnar and insists that he was only a steroid freak whose UFC stint was a whole circus act and failure, you look dat fool sternly in the eyes and confidently tell em Brock Lesnar had the single most impressive title run in all of MMA history.
webble: Now this is the first one I had to go away and put a bit of research into so those complaining about score delays blame this writer, but that’s ok I’m not complaining I am bored at work and research is good, bear with me. Ok so research done and my conclusion is that is was impressive, incredible even but the single greatest I would say no, maybe if you had added the caveat of for the heavyweights then yes 6/10
GoodCat: The wording of it is what I think makes it more unpopular. That, and like you mentioned, a lot of MMA fans just can't wrap their heads around the fact that a "fake wrestler" from the WWE could be UFC HW Champ. I think you do a pretty good job of laying out examples of his dominance. Now one thing I will say, is that you're trying to almost make it seem like he just came in with no combat sports experience. I know you did mention him being a wrestler, but he wasn't just a wrestler. Not Olympic level, but an NCAA champion. The HW division, while yes it was the most prestigious, was pretty weak at that time. Not a bad pick at all, but I don't think it's quite up there with some of the best ones. 6/10
Brick: When I first saw the subject I also thought “this is gonna be a tough one” because as you state the first thing that comes to mind when reflecting on Brock is that of a freak show knucklehead. And I’ll allow that he did have a pretty improbable run. But the most incredible in MMA history? His debut was a loss (definitive) then he went on to win a total of four (FOUR!) UFC fights, and that was it. It’s a bit of a stretch to call that the most incredible run in MMA (not even just UFC) history. You have Anderson Silva coming off as a relative unknown and taking the title from uber-popular Rich Franklin after just one previous UFC fight, then rattling off something like 15+ straight wins, often in Matrix-style fashion. Jon Jones taking down the immortal Shogun and continuing to dominate after that. Fedor going undefeated for like a decade or something. Yes, unpopular opinion and a pretty good MMA topic, but this is a really tough case to make with just four wins, and I don’t think you could quite bring it home. 5.5/10.
cmvideo75: I like this one too because of how popular the anti-Brock opinion is and I kind of agree with the contestant there. Brock is literally the reason I am watching MMA today. I went to a poker game at my friend's house and got knocked out early. But he bought the UFC card just because Brock Lesnar was fighting (Heath Herring) so I just watched the fights all night. That card had a GSP title fight on it, and super young Jon Jones and a bunch of other fun fighters. I loved it and was hooked. And the writer is correct. Brock ran through some top level HWs at the time with virtually no real MMA experience. That is way more impressive than he is usually given credit for. The steroid argument hurts him and his longevity wasn't that great... he fell off pretty fast. But his title run is what is being argued here and I can't say it's a terrible argument. 8/10
The UFC APEX is better for MMA than fans want to admit and should stay long term:
hear people complain about the UFC APEX cards every week, talking about how they can't wait until the UFC stop holding them and it boils my blood.
The first thing I want to make clear is that I'm not arguing that the Apex should replace arena events. Big fights belong in front of big crowds. Championship fights belong in soldout arenas. That's not the argument.
The argument is that the UFC schedule is better with Apex events than without them.
One of my personal favourite aspects of the APEX is that it allows highly skilled fighters in smaller weight classes to headline five round main events because let's be honest it's the casual fans (not us) that drive ticket sales. When the UFC is trying to sell out an arena they are going to prioritise the more recognisable names and bigger stars. As a result, many elite flyweights and bantamweights would never get the opportunity to headline a card.
Instead, the Apex has given us five round main events involving fighters whose skill levels far exceeded their popularity. We've seen fighters such as Tatsuro Taira, Cory Sandhagen, Brandon Royval and Song Yadong all receive multiple main event opportunities at the APEX that otherwise would likely be a three round featured prelim on an arena card. Fans who actually appreciate high level MMA get to see these fights play out over 25 minutes. I mean just look at this weekend's card with Manel Kape and Kyoji Horigichi (which pretty much everyone is looking forward to), this bout wouldn't main event anywhere but Japan and if it was anywhere else, the casual fans (not degenerates like us) would be complainimg about not having enough star power in the main event.
The Apex has also accelerated fighter development which is something that people often overlook. The example I like to use is Tom Aspinall compared to Arnold Allen. For years, Allen was one of the best featherweights in the world (unbeaten in the UFC for 8 years), but his career progression often felt slower because he was repeatedly being saved for UK and European events. When those opportunities were unavailable, his activity suffered. When looking at Aspinall comparatively, Aspinall was able to stay active in the APEX finishing both Arlovski and Spivac so that by the time the UFC returned to the UK, he had already built enough credibility to headline against Volkov. The APEX helped turn him into a recognisable name. The Apex creates more opportunities for fighters to compete regularly instead of waiting for specific regional cards.
Another unintended benefit is judging/refereeing. We often complain about home cooking and crowd influence. How many times have we seen the referee prematurely stand fighters up after some boos when the hometown guy has been taken down or the judges award rounds to the wrong guy because the crowd roars when the local guy lands a jab. This is almost eliminated with the lack of a crowd there.
The Apex also allows technical fights to be appreciated in ways that arena crowds often don't. A good example is Tsarukyan vs Gamrot. Now we look back at it as one of the best lightweight fights in the last 5 years but when the fight happened neither were considered stars (or known by the casual fan). If that fight plays out in front of a crowd, there's a real possibility that a five round main event between two relatively unknown grapplers could easily have been met with boos from fans wanting knockouts and big name fighters. Instead, the Apex allowed two elite fighters to showcase an incredibly high level, technical battle without being judged by crowd reactions and being able to hear and pick up everything from their corners.
My final argument is the silence, the absence of the crowd allows. We're able to hear everything. From the corner advice, to every single punch, kick and slam. We can hear for ourself when a strike actually lands and how effective it actually is. Look at a fight like Marlon Vera vs Rob Font. Font outlanded Vera as a whole but Vera audibly landed the harder and more effective shots.
To conclude the UFC APEX is better for MMA than fans want to admit and for the progression of this sport. It helps create stars that otherwise never would have had a chance especially in weight classes that need them like Flyweight/Bantamweight.
That is why UFC Apex events should stay for the long term.
webble: I actually agree with this one so you were onto a winner to start with. I agree for some of the same reasons but also I’m not always a big fan of crowds and in particular the way they influence a ref at times happy with this one 9/10
GoodCat: Another good submission. I can definitely see the argument and I pretty much agree with it. I like the aspect of showing off the lighter weight fighters to main event, and then more of the young, up and comers to get featured and get some actual UFC experience under their belts. If you're a fan of wrestling at all, the Apex cards feel like NXT. NXT is WWE's "developmental" promotion, they tape all their weekly shows from the WWE Performance Center, which is pretty much the same as UFC's Apex. It gives the young fighters the chance to work out their characters and in ring skills in front to live fans, and then they sprinkle in a veteran or two to main event so the fans can see someone they recognize. 8/10
Brick: Was a bit surprised to see this called an “unpopular opinion,” but did some internet sleuthing and it does appear people complain about these events. I put those people in the same category as those who complain about Thursday night NFL games as being not as good; my opinion, well, it sure beats NO game at all. You make some good points I agree with; the lack of crowd noise gives me nostalgia for the old-school TUF fights, many of which were quite good despite the lack of crowd. Good of you to say that you don’t want them to replace arena events or think they are better or anything like that, but rather that there is room for both and a place for this small venue that is beneficial to the fighters and the sport. I’m not sure how much of this is REALLY an unpopular opinion, or if those who complain about Apex are just the loud minority of viewer types who bitch and moan about everything (you know, like the fighter-pay-complaining-losers back in the day). Still, not bad, 7/10.
cmvideo75: I like this one. I don't know how heated this opinion is but I definitely hear people complain about the Apex cards, although it does seem to be cooling down a bit. But this is a very cohesive argument that is very well explained in the write up with 4 or 5 arguments for the Apex that make real MMA sense. So this is a decent argument with a great write up. So far this has been the best argument for an opinion.9/10
Total:33
6. darkwing
Brock Lesnar had the single greatest incredible title run in MMA history.
Alright be honest, how many of you immediately scoff when you saw this claim? Was it something you ever considered in the past 20 years or a narrative the mma mainstream ran with? Nope. Why? Cause mainstream media and fans have always associated Brock Lesnar with "fake fighting" from WWE and don't ever truly consider the magnitude of his success story in the UFC, and give him the credit he rightly deserved. A guy with virtually no mma fighting experience asked Dana White to let him fight only the top ranked fighters in the UFC's most prestigious weight class and not only did he survive but thrive. Instead of being a joke like other UFC crossovers namely James Tony, Kimbo Slice, and CM Punk, Brock was the one with the last laugh. It was a pill mainstream mma media and fans might find hard to swallow or accept when they saw Brock ran through the division and stomping on their fan favorite heavyweights . My contention is Brock Lesnar had the single greatest incredible title run in MMA history.
With one fight that lasted about a minute, serving as his entire mma background and experience, Brock was immediately thrown to the sharks in the greatest mma organization in the world. Not only did he succeed but he did it convincingly, outgrappling and knocking the shit out of ufc legends like Frank Mir, Heath Herring, Randy Couture, and Shane Carwin. This isn't the only case of a successful crossover from wrestling to MMA. We've seen olympic wrestlers like Cormier and Cejudo win titles, but what made this case with Brock unique was how fast and convincingly it happened. 1 minute of total mma fight experience, and then he's immediately fighting and destroying the top heavyweights in the world's best mma organization. Anyone who train and compete in mixed martial arts would understand how impossible and Herculean this feat is. If your argument against Brock was that he was probably juiced to the gills when this happen, my counter would be can you be totally sure if any of them are clean.
Let's put it into another perspective, around this time the UFC was trying to get the man, the myth, the heavyweight legend Fedor. However Fedor denied the UFC his greatness and later signed with Strikeforce. Brock Lesnar essentially accomplished what mma fans expected Fedor to do in the UFC, that is walk through the division and win the HW title.. Meanwhile, with all his might and legendary status, Fedor couldn't conquer Strikeforce, going 1-3 during his stint. So let's remove the names and let me ask you this: One guy is a consensus #1 heavyweight in the mma world and a Pride HW champion, the other guy only has a college wrestling background, a WWE title and virtually no mma experience, who would you expect to run through the UFC and become champ, and who would you pick to struggle in the lesser organization Strikeforce. I rest my case.
So the next time some casual at a UFC watch party brings up Brock Lesnar and insists that he was only a steroid freak whose UFC stint was a whole circus act and failure, you look dat fool sternly in the eyes and confidently tell em Brock Lesnar had the single most impressive title run in all of MMA history.
webble: Now this is the first one I had to go away and put a bit of research into so those complaining about score delays blame this writer, but that’s ok I’m not complaining I am bored at work and research is good, bear with me. Ok so research done and my conclusion is that is was impressive, incredible even but the single greatest I would say no, maybe if you had added the caveat of for the heavyweights then yes 6/10
GoodCat: The wording of it is what I think makes it more unpopular. That, and like you mentioned, a lot of MMA fans just can't wrap their heads around the fact that a "fake wrestler" from the WWE could be UFC HW Champ. I think you do a pretty good job of laying out examples of his dominance. Now one thing I will say, is that you're trying to almost make it seem like he just came in with no combat sports experience. I know you did mention him being a wrestler, but he wasn't just a wrestler. Not Olympic level, but an NCAA champion. The HW division, while yes it was the most prestigious, was pretty weak at that time. Not a bad pick at all, but I don't think it's quite up there with some of the best ones. 6/10
Brick: When I first saw the subject I also thought “this is gonna be a tough one” because as you state the first thing that comes to mind when reflecting on Brock is that of a freak show knucklehead. And I’ll allow that he did have a pretty improbable run. But the most incredible in MMA history? His debut was a loss (definitive) then he went on to win a total of four (FOUR!) UFC fights, and that was it. It’s a bit of a stretch to call that the most incredible run in MMA (not even just UFC) history. You have Anderson Silva coming off as a relative unknown and taking the title from uber-popular Rich Franklin after just one previous UFC fight, then rattling off something like 15+ straight wins, often in Matrix-style fashion. Jon Jones taking down the immortal Shogun and continuing to dominate after that. Fedor going undefeated for like a decade or something. Yes, unpopular opinion and a pretty good MMA topic, but this is a really tough case to make with just four wins, and I don’t think you could quite bring it home. 5.5/10.
cmvideo75: I like this one too because of how popular the anti-Brock opinion is and I kind of agree with the contestant there. Brock is literally the reason I am watching MMA today. I went to a poker game at my friend's house and got knocked out early. But he bought the UFC card just because Brock Lesnar was fighting (Heath Herring) so I just watched the fights all night. That card had a GSP title fight on it, and super young Jon Jones and a bunch of other fun fighters. I loved it and was hooked. And the writer is correct. Brock ran through some top level HWs at the time with virtually no real MMA experience. That is way more impressive than he is usually given credit for. The steroid argument hurts him and his longevity wasn't that great... he fell off pretty fast. But his title run is what is being argued here and I can't say it's a terrible argument. 8/10