Ben Askren made a Deal with the Devil...

Originally posted by: TheVileOne
Date: August 01, 2013 at 05:06 PM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/ben-askren-made-a-deal-with-the-devil.56861/
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I mean, Hieron lost the close split decision, not Askren but whatever.
Look, there is no doubt that Askren is very good at what he does. But he's not fighting as well rounded and top level competition as he would in the UFC guys who are decent strikers and strong wrestlers.
How well does Askren do against Rory MacDonald?
 
Originally posted by: madictionary
Date: August 01, 2013 at 07:12 PM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/ben-askren-made-a-deal-with-the-devil.56861/
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Well lacking striking power is forgivable. But how can such a great grappler have such lackluster submission offense? You don't need to be a blue chip NBA prospect in order to secure a choke, limb lock, etc. If he had some slick finishes, he would not get ragged on all the time.
 
Originally posted by: GOODNIGHTIRENE
Date: August 01, 2013 at 09:17 PM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/ben-askren-made-a-deal-with-the-devil.56861/
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TheVileOne said:
Exactly, the last time he fought a tough and experienced wrestler he lost a close split decision.
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No he didnt
 
Originally posted by: Tiperrary lad
Date: August 01, 2013 at 09:38 PM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/ben-askren-made-a-deal-with-the-devil.56861/
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Flound said:
You shoulda stopped at runners-up. Claiming Funky was weaker, slower and less explosive than every single one of his opponents? Wins the dumb comment of the day award.
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Flound,
Askren claims the fastest 40 he ran was a 5.5. I challenge you to find a D-1 wrestler under 285 lbs that was slower. Here's your sign...
 
Originally posted by: BRF
Date: August 01, 2013 at 09:46 PM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/ben-askren-made-a-deal-with-the-devil.56861/
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i found it funny how he had koreshkov in a full arm triangle choke while on side control on the side he needed to be, and he still couldn't get a tap
 
Originally posted by: Tiperrary lad
Date: August 01, 2013 at 09:57 PM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/ben-askren-made-a-deal-with-the-devil.56861/
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BRF said:
i found it funny how he had koreshkov in a full arm triangle choke while on side control on the side he needed to be, and he still couldn't get a tap
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he was on the correct side, however, the fence prevented him from getting the angle he needed and Koreshkov wasn't trying to advance or improve position but rather just defend. Btw, Koreshkov was not a totally inexperienced grappler he has participated in FILA World Grappling championships (with a gi) and other pankration grappling championships.
 
Originally posted by: nvrtap
Date: August 01, 2013 at 11:48 PM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/ben-askren-made-a-deal-with-the-devil.56861/
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Shawnd1901 said:
Rory would wreck Askren
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Rory MIGHT outpoint Askren (but I doubt it). Wreck? probably not because McDonald would have to close the gap on Askren OR try to finish him on the ground and in both instances Askren is superior.
 
Originally posted by: madictionary
Date: August 02, 2013 at 12:32 AM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/ben-askren-made-a-deal-with-the-devil.56861/
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BRF said:
i found it funny how he had koreshkov in a full arm triangle choke while on side control on the side he needed to be, and he still couldn't get a tap
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lol, is it still considered amateurish in MMA to not get the submission, but win by punches in volume after a few rounds? One fighter talked about this, some years ago, but I don't remember who said it?
 
Originally posted by: BRF
Date: August 02, 2013 at 03:27 AM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/ben-askren-made-a-deal-with-the-devil.56861/
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madictionary said:
lol, is it still considered amateurish in MMA to not get the submission, but win by punches in volume after a few rounds? One fighter talked about this, some years ago, but I don't remember who said it?
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Well, if you train MMA for a bunch of years, and your opponent is curling up in a ball you should be able to get a real ground and pound finish or a submission.
Askren hasn't shown improvement really, his GNP has gotten more effective, but he isn't finishing guys with power hes finishing them with volume and pressure.
 
Originally posted by: Spud
Date: August 02, 2013 at 06:31 AM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/ben-askren-made-a-deal-with-the-devil.56861/
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BRF said:
i found it funny how he had koreshkov in a full arm triangle choke while on side control on the side he needed to be, and he still couldn't get a tap
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He had it in, but he wasn't in the right position - the cage was stopping him. If the cage wasn't there he'd have moved to the side & it would have actually been fully sunk in.
 
Originally posted by: Flound
Date: August 02, 2013 at 07:12 AM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/ben-askren-made-a-deal-with-the-devil.56861/
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Tiperrary lad said:
Flound,
Askren claims the fastest 40 he ran was a 5.5. I challenge you to find a D-1 wrestler under 285 lbs that was slower. Here's your sign...
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What challenge? It's a stupid comment. It's as if you think fast is about running speed and not reaction times.
Oh, by the way, Bill Engvall called. He wants his tag line back - he says you're tremendously unqualified to hand signs out. But he suggested that I give you a billboard - a small sign just doesn't capture your essence.
 
Originally posted by: noobMMAfan
Date: August 02, 2013 at 01:49 PM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/ben-askren-made-a-deal-with-the-devil.56861/
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So, dominant wrestler with a crazy style of all over the place, transitional top control that's actually fun to watch, and has been finishing fights. Can someone tell me why people are hating on this guy so bad? GSP, masterful as he is, has monotonous, boring fights, yet he has legions of jock-hanging apologist fans ready to burn any critics at the stake.
It's hardly Ben's fault they aren't throwing wrestlers at him. If the wrestlers can't get past the strikers in the tournament, they have only themselves to blame.
 
Originally posted by: noobMMAfan
Date: August 02, 2013 at 01:50 PM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/ben-askren-made-a-deal-with-the-devil.56861/
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BRF said:
Well, if you train MMA for a bunch of years, and your opponent is curling up in a ball you should be able to get a real ground and pound finish or a submission.
Askren hasn't shown improvement really, his GNP has gotten more effective, but he isn't finishing guys with power hes finishing them with volume and pressure.
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Causing maximum damage to the opponent isn't on everyone's mind. Sometimes the more merciful thing to do is spare the poor guy some brain damage and go for volume of less damaging strikes so the ref stops it when one competitor has the other at a massive disadvantage like that. Nelson vs. Slice on TUF comes to mind.
 
Originally posted by: 2_1up2_4down
Date: August 02, 2013 at 01:59 PM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/ben-askren-made-a-deal-with-the-devil.56861/
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noobMMAfan said:
So, dominant wrestler with a crazy style of all over the place, transitional top control that's actually fun to watch, and has been finishing fights. Can someone tell me why people are hating on this guy so bad? GSP, masterful as he is, has monotonous, boring fights, yet he has legions of jock-hanging apologist fans ready to burn any critics at the stake.
It's hardly Ben's fault they aren't throwing wrestlers at him. If the wrestlers can't get past the strikers in the tournament, they have only themselves to blame.
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Bellator has not looked to sign more WW's to give Askren the chance to face different opponents. he's going to either rematch Lima or fight Ben Saunders. that does not bode well for any fighter that wants to improve by testing themselves like Askren wants to. Bellator no longer looks to get prospects like they used to and have their tournaments be the way to let them improve. and when it's a fighter like Askren that will only improve through fighting tougher style match ups, it's a major hindrance to their growth.
and compare a young fighter like Bubba Jenkins with how he takes guys down, positions himself and uses his top control to land ground and pound and then look at how Askren still barely lands significant ground and pound. Askren can get guys in odd positions and tire them out, but he's yet to even put his MMA ground game all together.
 
Originally posted by: ChaosGod
Date: August 02, 2013 at 02:01 PM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/ben-askren-made-a-deal-with-the-devil.56861/
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noobMMAfan said:
Causing maximum damage to the opponent isn't on everyone's mind. Sometimes the more merciful thing to do is spare the poor guy some brain damage and go for volume of less damaging strikes so the ref stops it when one competitor has the other at a massive disadvantage like that. Nelson vs. Slice on TUF comes to mind.
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While that is true he had probably a dozen chances to finish the fight by chokes. In your own thread before that you compare him finishing and not having fans to GSP right? Well GSP in the hardy fight went for two subs and sunk them in deep. Ben had the RNC all day on him, Hell he had him flattened out at one point and if he put some effort in his ground and pound he would have been done. You say GSP is boring, but GSP mixes it up, strikes and wrestling ben is all wrestling and not just that the guy tries to be some Frank Mir/Chael Sonnen Hybrid on the mic which he can't pull off which makes people hate him even more
 
Originally posted by: 2_1up2_4down
Date: August 02, 2013 at 02:14 PM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/ben-askren-made-a-deal-with-the-devil.56861/
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ChaosGod said:
While that is true he had probably a dozen chances to finish the fight by chokes. In your own thread before that you compare him finishing and not having fans to GSP right? Well GSP in the hardy fight went for two subs and sunk them in deep. Ben had the RNC all day on him, Hell he had him flattened out at one point and if he put some effort in his ground and pound he would have been done. You say GSP is boring, but GSP mixes it up, strikes and wrestling ben is all wrestling and not just that the guy tries to be some Frank Mir/Chael Sonnen Hybrid on the mic which he can't pull off which makes people hate him even more
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Askren could have turned the RNC into a neck/ jaw crank like Aoki does, he could have scooted up to put the his weight into the arm triangle choke, he could have looked to just stay in Mount or back mount and looked to rain down elbows while flattening his opponent out who was dead tired, and gotten the earlier stoppage, he could have tried to work an arm sub from side control instead of bouncing from one position to the other without much threat of strikes or subs. hell he could have just looked for the crucifix and gotten the stoppage through that. but he didn't for whatever reason. the most merciful thing a fighter can do for an opponent that's dead tired, outclassed and mentally beaten is to go for the finish.
 
Originally posted by: noobMMAfan
Date: August 02, 2013 at 02:15 PM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/ben-askren-made-a-deal-with-the-devil.56861/
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ChaosGod said:
While that is true he had probably a dozen chances to finish the fight by chokes. In your own thread before that you compare him finishing and not having fans to GSP right? Well GSP in the hardy fight went for two subs and sunk them in deep. Ben had the RNC all day on him, Hell he had him flattened out at one point and if he put some effort in his ground and pound he would have been done. You say GSP is boring, but GSP mixes it up, strikes and wrestling ben is all wrestling and not just that the guy tries to be some Frank Mir/Chael Sonnen Hybrid on the mic which he can't pull off which makes people hate him even more
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I don't see your point, GSP gets closer with subs he doesn't finish? Askren was going for subs pretty regularly, guillotine, neck granks, RNCs, and was very close with that side choke, and would have finished the fight were it not for the fence being in the way, but gave it up for mount which isn't a poor decision. A lot of them were for position, but if you are gonna try and argue that GSP tries to finish fights and Askren doesn't, that's a tough sell, especially considering Askren actually finished his last two. And well... dunno what to say about Askren putting effort into his GNP and finishing, since he finished the fight via GNP. And you're right, GSP mixes it up, but I'll take Askren's entertaining wrestling over GSP's boring striking mixed with his boring top game.
I agree his talking is annoying, that could definitely contribute to some of the hate, but it seems kinda disproportionate to that. I guess some of it is his style as well, but Askren is one of the few one-dimensional fighters I actually enjoy watching.
 
Originally posted by: noobMMAfan
Date: August 02, 2013 at 02:17 PM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/ben-askren-made-a-deal-with-the-devil.56861/
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2_1up2_4down said:
Askren could have turned the RNC into a neck/ jaw crank like Aoki does, he could have scooted up to put the his weight into the arm triangle choke, he could have looked to just stay in Mount or back mount and looked to rain down elbows while flattening his opponent out who was dead tired, and gotten the earlier stoppage, he could have tried to work an arm sub from side control instead of bouncing from one position to the other without much threat of strikes or subs. hell he could have just looked for the crucifix and gotten the stoppage through that. but he didn't for whatever reason. the most merciful thing a fighter can do for an opponent that's dead tired, outclassed and mentally beaten is to go for the finish.
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Yup, imo Askren should be spending as much time as possible on his BJJ offense. You can only coast on top control for so long.
Also, I got the impression that side choke was an attempt at a merciful finish, but the fence kinda had other ideas I guess.
 
Originally posted by: Spud
Date: August 02, 2013 at 02:17 PM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/ben-askren-made-a-deal-with-the-devil.56861/
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2_1up2_4down said:
Askren could have turned the RNC into a neck/ jaw crank like Aoki does, he could have scooted up to put the his weight into the arm triangle choke, he could have looked to just stay in Mount or back mount and looked to rain down elbows while flattening his opponent out who was dead tired, and gotten the earlier stoppage, he could have tried to work an arm sub from side control instead of bouncing from one position to the other without much threat of strikes or subs. hell he could have just looked for the crucifix and gotten the stoppage through that. but he didn't for whatever reason. the most merciful thing a fighter can do for an opponent that's dead tired, outclassed and mentally beaten is to go for the finish.
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Yeah, why doesn't everyone just do what Shinya Aoki does, looks easy...
(And he never had the angle for the arm triangle, the cage was in the way)
 
Originally posted by: 2_1up2_4down
Date: August 02, 2013 at 02:22 PM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/ben-askren-made-a-deal-with-the-devil.56861/
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Spud said:
Yeah, why doesn't everyone just do what Shinya Aoki does, looks easy...
(And he never had the angle for the arm triangle, the cage was in the way)
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Askren had the RNC but he would give up on the sub attempt. sometimes a slight adjustment can be the difference between getting the sub. but Askren wouldn't really fully commit to any sub he tried. I'm not trying to state that grappling's easy, but when a wrestler like Askren has a beaten opponent like he did, and didn't look for more subs or try to finish the fight sooner, it does show something as far as where he's at
 
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