Does Joe Rogan shape the judges' opinions?

[Nastycrow]

Originally posted by: CopperHeart
Date: August 05, 2013 at 10:11 PM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/does-joe-rogan-shape-the-judges-opinions.57009/

There's no rule in MMA that states that the final seconds of a round outweigh what happened during the previous 4:30 minutes.
One would have to believe that MMA judges are MMA fans and MMA fans mostly watch the UFC.
Joe Rogan has been working a microphone for the UFC since 1997.
For years we've been hearing talk about how fighter A "stole the round" from fighter B due to a late takedown.
So... Have today's judges been influenced by years of Roganisms, intentionally or unintentionally?
Does he influence MMA scoring above and beyond what's in the Unified Rules?

 

[Nastycrow]

Originally posted by: mMikal
Date: August 05, 2013 at 10:25 PM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/does-joe-rogan-shape-the-judges-opinions.57009/

Interesting insight. It's very possible that the commentating done by Joe Rogan has changed the way both the general public and the judges that watch the events opinions on how rounds
should
be scored. All the more reason why a set criteria for judges should be looked at.
Personally, I don't think a takedown should be worth anything. This is
mixed
martial arts, these fighters are well versed on the ground so if the fight goes there then it's on neutral territory until the person on top advances positions and damages the person on the bottom. Likewise, if the person on the bottom is able to attempt submissions and completely neutralize the top game of his opponent.. why should the person who got the takedown get any points?

 

[Nastycrow]

Originally posted by: CopperHeart
Date: August 05, 2013 at 10:27 PM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/does-joe-rogan-shape-the-judges-opinions.57009/

mMikal said:
Interesting insight. It's very possible that the commentating done by Joe Rogan has changed the way both the general public and the judges that watch the events opinions on how rounds
should
be scored. All the more reason why a set criteria for judges should be looked at.
Personally, I don't think a takedown should be worth anything. This is
mixed
martial arts, these fighters are well versed on the ground so if the fight goes there then it's on neutral territory until the person on top advances positions and damages the person on the bottom. Likewise, if the person on the bottom is able to attempt submissions and completely neutralize the top game of his opponent.. why should the person who got the takedown get any points?
Click to expand...
Some people would say that it "dictates where the fight goes". But then again, so does stuffing a takedown.
A takedown could be worth more if it has a certain damaging impact, but most don't seem to have it.

 

[Nastycrow]

Originally posted by: grapplethis
Date: August 05, 2013 at 10:37 PM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/does-joe-rogan-shape-the-judges-opinions.57009/

i believe in grappling, a takedown is worth points even if you wind up in a guy's guard. you're still on top. you're not dominating, but you're still on top at least.
but if you don't pass guard or issue some serious ground and pound, a late TD shouldn't steal a round if you've been thoroughly outstruck. I assume copperheart's inspiration for this thread was the Machida/Davis decision.

 

[Nastycrow]

Originally posted by: mMikal
Date: August 05, 2013 at 10:41 PM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/does-joe-rogan-shape-the-judges-opinions.57009/

I don't see why being on top should mean anything, though, especially if you are not landing any effective ground and pound. Guys are so well trained on their backs -- in fact, there are way more submissions off your back in full guard than on top in full/half guard. The connotations being on top should not always mean you are winning until you do something effective with your position. Just a takedown should hardly even be scored more than a punch unless it's a slam or as the OP said something damaging.

 

[Nastycrow]

Originally posted by: grapplethis
Date: August 05, 2013 at 10:42 PM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/does-joe-rogan-shape-the-judges-opinions.57009/

mMikal said:
I don't see why being on top should mean anything, though, especially if you are not landing any effective ground and pound. Guys are so well trained on their backs -- in fact, there are way more submissions off your back in full guard than on top in full/half guard. The connotations being on top should not always mean you are winning until you do something effective with your position. Just a takedown should hardly even be scored more than a punch unless it's a slam or as the OP said something damaging.
Click to expand...
but again, even in grappling, where striking means nothing, a takedown to guard is worth SOMETHING. not a bunch, but something.
maybe it's best to compare it to a nice flurry of landed punches. you're winning in that moment, but it doesn't mean you've won the round.

 

[Nastycrow]

Originally posted by: mMikal
Date: August 05, 2013 at 10:46 PM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/does-joe-rogan-shape-the-judges-opinions.57009/

But would you not agree that when someone is in full guard, the person on the bottom has more control than the person on the top? Assume no effective GnP is thrown.

 

[Nastycrow]

Originally posted by: Watain
Date: August 05, 2013 at 10:51 PM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/does-joe-rogan-shape-the-judges-opinions.57009/

I have it on good authority that Rogan has some compromising pitures of Cecil Peoples and has a hand signal that tells Cecil which was to score a fight.

 

[Nastycrow]

Originally posted by: CecilPeoples
Date: August 05, 2013 at 10:51 PM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/does-joe-rogan-shape-the-judges-opinions.57009/

Watain said:
I have it on good authority that Rogan has some compromising pitures of Cecil Peoples and has a hand signal that tells Cecil which was to score a fight.
Click to expand...
You did not just say that...

 

[Nastycrow]

Originally posted by: grapplethis
Date: August 05, 2013 at 11:42 PM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/does-joe-rogan-shape-the-judges-opinions.57009/

mMikal said:
But would you not agree that when someone is in full guard, the person on the bottom has more control than the person on the top? Assume no effective GnP is thrown.
Click to expand...
no. its a neutral position IMO. it is much easier to pass guard than it is to sweep a guy from the bottom, it's much easier to strike from the top than the bottom. the potential for the guy on top is greater, he has more options. if you spend a round on top of a guy in guard, not throwing punches and just sat there, and he didn't try to submit you, i think you win the round.
if nothing else happens in a round, a takedown can win it. but if you lose 4 minutes of striking and then spend a minute in guard doing nothing, i think you lost that round.

 

[Nastycrow]

Originally posted by: mMikal
Date: August 05, 2013 at 11:47 PM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/does-joe-rogan-shape-the-judges-opinions.57009/

But in full guard, the guy on the bottom has more ways to finish the fight than the guy on top. There are many more submissions from the bottom than from the top when in full guard.
Anyway, no need to get too deep into that I just don't believe a takedown should ever be enough to 'steal' a round if nothing is done with it.

 

[Nastycrow]

Originally posted by: Flound
Date: August 06, 2013 at 06:45 AM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/does-joe-rogan-shape-the-judges-opinions.57009/

CopperHeart said:
There's no rule in MMA that states that the final seconds of a round outweigh what happened during the previous 4:30 minutes.
Click to expand...
Correct, there never has been, nor is it the presumption that spawned the idea. Fighters and coaches are counting on the human foible of the most recent event being freshest in a person's mind. That's the basis for the last of the round flurry of activity, be it takedown or tricking. It's capitalizing on how our memories work, not a rules issue.
One would have to believe that MMA judges are MMA fans and MMA fans mostly watch the UFC.
Joe Rogan has been working a microphone for the UFC since 1997.
For years we've been hearing talk about how fighter A "stole the round" from fighter B due to a late takedown.
So... Have today's judges been influenced by years of Roganisms, intentionally or unintentionally?
Does he influence MMA scoring above and beyond what's in the Unified Rules?
Click to expand...
So, my answer is unlikely.
If anything, Rogan's chirping would have the opposite effect on someone familiar with the rules. Yes, the joke is they don't know the rules, but they do. The issue with judging has always been the subjective application of the criteria, not that the judges don't know the criteria.
So if you're a judge and someone says something incorrect while you're watching as a fan, I'd wager you'd be more inclined to be negatively influenced by his comments than swayed by them. The evidence for that human foible is on these forums alone - try to say something wrong

 

[Nastycrow]

Originally posted by: Bucho
Date: August 06, 2013 at 07:06 AM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/does-joe-rogan-shape-the-judges-opinions.57009/

Rogan's a jitz guy so if he was more influential we'd most likely have less guys losing rounds when they're active off their backs and the guy on top is just in survivial mode in "superior" position.

 

[Nastycrow]

Originally posted by: 67goat
Date: August 06, 2013 at 11:29 AM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/does-joe-rogan-shape-the-judges-opinions.57009/

In order for this to be true, I think you'd have to prove that judges are watching UFC when they are not judging. I don't believe they get the commentary while ringside.
As for Rogan saying to look up, I haven't heard him say that in a long time. Don't forget that UFC 131 was the first time judges had monitors. Not even sure it has been consistent since then.

 

[Nastycrow]

Originally posted by: CopperHeart
Date: August 06, 2013 at 11:32 AM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/does-joe-rogan-shape-the-judges-opinions.57009/

Bucho said:
Rogan's a jitz guy
Click to expand...
Also a taekwondo guy.

 

[Nastycrow]

Originally posted by: MMAenCORE
Date: August 06, 2013 at 11:34 AM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/does-joe-rogan-shape-the-judges-opinions.57009/

Watain said:
I have it on good authority that Rogan has some compromising pitures of Cecil Peoples and has a hand signal that tells Cecil which was to score a fight.
Click to expand...
Nahh...now thats funny,hahaha

 

[Nastycrow]

Originally posted by: CecilPeoples
Date: August 06, 2013 at 11:35 AM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/does-joe-rogan-shape-the-judges-opinions.57009/

MMAenCORE said:
Nahh...now thats funny,hahaha
Click to expand...
Not!

 

[Nastycrow]

Originally posted by: Flound
Date: August 06, 2013 at 11:41 AM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/does-joe-rogan-shape-the-judges-opinions.57009/

67goat said:
In order for this to be true, I think you'd have to prove that judges are watching UFC when they are not judging. I don't believe they get the commentary while ringside.
Click to expand...
I do believe Copper addressed that, by suggesting that the judges watch MMA as fans.

 

[Nastycrow]

Originally posted by: 67goat
Date: August 06, 2013 at 11:44 AM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/does-joe-rogan-shape-the-judges-opinions.57009/

Flound said:
I do believe Copper addressed that, by suggesting that the judges watch MMA as fans.
Click to expand...
He suggested it. I'm saying you'd have to prove it. Not quite the same.

 

[Nastycrow]

Originally posted by: PsychoIcon
Date: August 06, 2013 at 11:45 AM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/does-joe-rogan-shape-the-judges-opinions.57009/

Sometimes I think he influences them, but no