Greatest FW in UFC history
- Thread starter Nastycrow
- Start date
To be fair tho Jonny, it lasted only one punch because Mcgregor's boxing is on an entirely different level to Jose's. Which I think more than compensates for the differences in other areas.
Truth be told tho, McGregor's as much a featherweight as Till is a Welter. That he managed to hold that much muscle on that type of frame and still get his body down there so consistently is one of he and his teams most solid achievements. His skin was translucent on those scales
In regards to Conor vs Max, their next fight will determine that.
It irritates me that a one punch fight, has led people to jump to all kinds of conclusions about Conor's ability vs Aldo's. Were people convinced that Matt Serra was a better fighter than GSP after he won?
I'm not saying that Conor is Serra level underdog... But we didn't get an idea on how well McGregor really matches up to Aldo.
If a few seconds of cage time is all you needed, I'd say you're delusional.
callithowyouseeit said:
Disagree. Conor has glaring holes in his game while Aldo did not.
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But Conor's strengths are better than Aldo's. He surpasses Aldo at his best asset but doesn't measure up to the complete package. It's an unanswerable argument. I think at the highest level, having that one extra dangerous skill leads to finishing more fights and being a more exciting but also leaves him more vulnerable vs certain types of fighters. Aldo is less vulnerable vs more types of fighters but not vs Conor himself. That is the decider for me when it is a close call.
They really need a rematch, but at this point I think Aldo's age becomes a factor. We're not getting vintage Aldo anymore. I think their first match up was close enough to vintage Aldo to be legit and Conor beat him mentally before the fight even started and then in 13 seconds in the cage. That was an unfortunate and slightly flukey outcome for Aldo, but it did happen.
Then when you consider Conor also beat the other guy being discussed as FW goat (the one who finished Aldo twice) and it seems like less of just a fluke win.
cmvideo75 said:
But Conor's strengths are better than Aldo's. He surpasses Aldo at his best asset but doesn't measure up to the complete package. It's an unanswerable argument. I think at the highest level, having that one extra dangerous skill leads to finishing more fights and being a more exciting but also leaves him more vulnerable vs certain types of fighters. Aldo is less vulnerable vs more types of fighters but not vs Conor himself. That is the decider for me when it is a close call.
They really need a rematch, but at this point I think Aldo's age becomes a factor. We're not getting vintage Aldo anymore. I think their first match up was close enough to vintage Aldo to be legit and Conor beat him mentally before the fight even started and then in 13 seconds in the cage. That was an unfortunate and slightly flukey outcome for Aldo, but it did happen.
Then when you consider Conor also beat the other guy being discussed as FW goat (the one who finished Aldo twice) and it seems like less of just a fluke win.
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I would also love to see the rematch but McGregor has nothing to gain so it won't happen.
McGregor vs Holloway 2 isnt far fetched and I'd honestly put my money on Holloway the second time around. Similar to Kevin Lee.... I wouldn't dare bet on Al Iaquinta even though he won the first fight.
callithowyouseeit said:
It irritates me that a one punch fight, has led people to jump to all kinds of conclusions about Conor's ability vs Aldo's. Were people convinced that Matt Serra was a better fighter than GSP after he won?
I'm not saying that Conor is Serra level underdog... But we didn't get an idea on how well McGregor really matches up to Aldo.
If a few seconds of cage time is all you needed, I'd say you're delusional.
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Serra won a show & caught GSP sleeping. GSP underestimated Serra’s KO power.
Conor mind fukked Aldo, & timed a perfect punch. Aldo knew what Conor wanted to do and Conor did it. He dismantled everyone the UFC put in front of him, minus Diaz & Kahbib.
A “few seconds of cage time” is a vast underestimate of Conor has done for the UFC in & out of the cage. 1000 Aldo’s & 1000 Max’s couldn’t do what 1 McGregor has.
About a year ago, if you asked me who id take now; Conor or Max? Id hesitate and be a bit torn. Slightly leaning toward Conor.
These days, I'd go with Max. Don't need to think too much about it now. Its anybody's ballgame in the opening 2 rounds. Without question more dangerous for Max in the early going. But Max's X-Factor is that he'll come at you in RD5 with the same exact pace he did in RD1. Thats not good for Conor, if his conditioning isnt up to par
rhino78 said:
Serra won a show & caught GSP sleeping. GSP underestimated Serra’s KO power.
Conor mind fukked Aldo, & timed a perfect punch. Aldo knew what Conor wanted to do and Conor did it. He dismantled everyone the UFC put in front of him, minus Diaz & Kahbib.
A “few seconds of cage time” is a vast underestimate of Conor has done for the UFC in & out of the cage. 1000 Aldo’s & 1000 Max’s couldn’t do what 1 McGregor has.
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rhino78 said:
Serra won a show & caught GSP sleeping. GSP underestimated Serra’s KO power.
Conor mind fukked Aldo, & timed a perfect punch. Aldo knew what Conor wanted to do and Conor did it. He dismantled everyone the UFC put in front of him, minus Diaz & Kahbib.
A “few seconds of cage time” is a vast underestimate of Conor has done for the UFC in & out of the cage. 1000 Aldo’s & 1000 Max’s couldn’t do what 1 McGregor has.
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Your last statement is perplexing. If you're speaking about out of cage. Yeah... Conor has done what the other guys couldn't, agreed X10000
If you're talking inside the cage, he hasn't yet matched their careers on merit.
callithowyouseeit said:
Your last statement is perplexing. If you're speaking about out of cage. Yeah... Conor has done what the other guys couldn't, agreed X10000
If you're talking inside the cage, he hasn't yet matched their careers on merit
.
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I dunno completely about that one. I think that can be argued in one instance.
To match Aldo's career resume, your gonna need to build up the kind of All-Time Legend status that grants entry to GOAT conversations. Conor aint there.
Conor's accomplishments may not be as traditional and "seen through" as Max's, but I think its a bit farfetched to say Conor's dont match Max's in any way.
At 145
? Absolutely Max's surpass Conor's. No argument. But lets talk career: Max won and unified the 145 lb belts, defending it twice. Conor won and unified the 145 belts, then moved up to win the 155 belt to become the 1st ever champ champ. Based on that incredible achievement alone, I think the argument can be made Conor has actually achieved more in his overall career, as of now
The champ champ achievement is a bit overblown as he was only I believe the second person allowed to go for it? Silva likely would have done it if given the opportunity without the favorable match-up Conor received against Alvarez. Let's be honest, Conor is 2 -2 against LW's with both those losses being complete waxing.
redd1 said:
The champ champ achievement is a bit overblown as he was only I believe the second person allowed to go for it? Silva likely would have done it if given the opportunity without the favorable match-up Conor received against Alvarez. Let's be honest, Conor is 2 -2 against LW's with both those losses being complete waxing.
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Its really not overblown. He did it. I understand making Conor's achievements seem like lesser accomplishments is a fun hobby for a lot of fans. But come on. We can downplay his
road
to the accomplishment all we want (which is valid critique). At the end of the day, he did it. You cant take it away or downplay it. Eddie Alvarez is a great fighter. Him being a "bad matchup" vs Conor only sheds light on how good Conor is/was. He also accepted a fight to go for it vs RDA... who at the time was a
monster
. Eddie being the coincidental matchup had nothing to do with it. Silva coulda, woulda, shoulda. He didnt.
Downplaying that achievement is really reaching imo. I will never argue that Conor is some all-time world beater. I dont hold him in that high regard. But we have to be unbiased & understanding at times. Conor's 2 losses? Short notice at 170 vs Diaz? That was a challenge (despite how most feel about that too). Im not even going to speak about the mountain that is Khabib Nurmagomedov. I think its unfair to look at that & go "Well, he just wasn't that good." Khabib mauls everyone.
He's not Jones, GSP, Anderson, Aldo, Cormier or even a Mighty Mouse. I'll never pretend to hype him to be better than he is/was. But I still think its unfair to downplay what he's done & who he is as a competitor. I think at this point, to not understand/respect that, shows bias. Just my opinion. Not trying to overhype what he's done. Just trying to be fair
Longevity counts. It's still Aldo, but Max is catching up.
Conor, as great as he was, doesnt have the years of top level dominance to be considered the divisional greatest.
I wonder if the people who say Conor is above Aldo because of their fight would argue that Chris Weidman is the greatest ever MW?
callithowyouseeit said:
I would also love to see the rematch but McGregor has nothing to gain so it won't happen.
McGregor vs Holloway 2 isnt far fetched and I'd honestly put my money on Holloway the second time around. Similar to Kevin Lee.... I wouldn't dare bet on Al Iaquinta even though he won the first fight.
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Never doubt Ragin Al!!
Spud said:
Longevity counts. It's still Aldo, but Max is catching up.
Conor, as great as he was, doesnt have the years of top level dominance to be considered the divisional greatest.
I wonder if the people who say Conor is above Aldo because of their fight would argue that Chris Weidman is the greatest ever MW?
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If Weidman went to LHW and won the belt there after and never fought at MW again, they might. His MW record would have been 11-0 with 2 wins over the GOAT at the time.
Mike Porch MMA said:
Its really not overblown. He did it. I understand making Conor's achievements seem like lesser accomplishments is a fun hobby for a lot of fans. But come on. We can downplay his
road
to the accomplishment all we want (which is valid critique). At the end of the day, he did it. You cant take it away or downplay it. Eddie Alvarez is a great fighter. Him being a "bad matchup" vs Conor only sheds light on how good Conor is/was. He also accepted a fight to go for it vs RDA... who at the time was a
monster
. Eddie being the coincidental matchup had nothing to do with it. Silva coulda, woulda, shoulda. He didnt.
Downplaying that achievement is really reaching imo. I will never argue that Conor is some all-time world beater. I dont hold him in that high regard. But we have to be unbiased & understanding at times. Conor's 2 losses? Short notice at 170 vs Diaz? That was a challenge (despite how most feel about that too). Im not even going to speak about the mountain that is Khabib Nurmagomedov. I think its unfair to look at that & go "Well, he just wasn't that good." Khabib mauls everyone.
He's not Jones, GSP, Anderson, Aldo, Cormier or even a Mighty Mouse. I'll never pretend to hype him to be better than he is/was. But I still think its unfair to downplay what he's done & who he is as a competitor. I think at this point, to not understand/respect that, shows bias. Just my opinion. Not trying to overhype what he's done. Just trying to be fair
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Conor accomplished shiit really fast, some people can't accept that because he doesn't have a "lengthy" resume. You know cause he doesn't have all these years and wars and promotions under his belt. But, he really does. Just did it likity split.
callithowyouseeit said:
Disagree. Conor has glaring holes in his game while Aldo did not.
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If not for the big hole that exists in his game Conor wouldn't have knocked him flat inside a minute.
That it hadn't been exploited until that point was simply due to the fact he hadn't faced anyone of McGregor's level as a boxer.
callithowyouseeit said:
If a few seconds of cage time is all you needed, I'd say you're delusional.
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It's more about analysing them as technical fighters than it is what happened in their fight.
Jose makes the same mistakes a lot of mma fighters do in their boxing, and he paid the price he hadn't had to until that point because until that point it really wasn't a vulnerability. Up until then nobody had the technical boxing to make it one. It's why what happened vs Max subsequently should be no shock either.
Aldo's style is more orthodox mma, and the holes which exist in his game are those in which McGregor's most potent attributes find a perfect home. Jose, in my opinion, has been out evolved by the best breakthrough fighters more than he has diminished physically. I personally have no interest at all in seeing a rematch.