Not MMA related, completely Boxing related
- Thread starter Nastycrow
- Start date
Xamot said:
Maybe he was guilty, idk I personally feel he wasn't. but HEY idk,
It's like the OJ thing, I always separate it like this....
Did he do it? Yeah, I'm sure he did... NOW WAS HE WRONG?! I don't think so.
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LMAO dude did you just say she deserved to be murdered?!
Xamot said:
I know Roy made his debut 4 years after Mike made his, however, I'm speaking about when Tyson was ON TOP of the world from 86 to about 96 (Some say 90, when all that s--- happened, etc... I still think 90's Tyson was a monster), Prime Tyson vs Prime Roy, I think Roy easily wins. It's the way Roy fought, it's too frustrating for Tyson to deal with. We have always seen how Frustrated Tyson gets with anyone that can jab him up, it's like his game plan goes out the window, it's why Lewis ate him alive the way he did. Even switched stances with it, so Tyson had to adjust mid fight and couldn't. Tyson got knocked down at least 3 times by lewis, NOBODY had ever knocked Tyson down 3 times, Lewis picked his shots, threw hooks PERFECTLY when needed.
Roy Jones was told by his Father, coaches, etc... NOT to move up, that he was too small, they were too big, he couldn't last, etc... Then moved up and DOMINATED Ruiz, a guy who had beaten Holyfield (Twice, that first fight was some bs) and defended his belt. That wasn't a weak heavyweight division, Jones was even light going into the fight, the guy weighed about 193. while ruiz was well over 220. Now I do agree with the way Jones moved up, the muscle he gained, etc... he should've just stayed at HW, because yes he did not look the same going back to LHW. But regardless, the guy won a championship in 4 different weightclasses easily. MW, Super Middle, LHW and Heavy. I do believe his skill is far above Tyson's. I think Tyson hits harder (I personally feel Tyson is between the 4th and the 6th hardest hitter I've ever seen in boxing history). However Roy has the skill.
Regardless, just an opinion, I feel Roy takes it easily. Roy effectively used his jab throughout his career to amazing success. Tyson hates the jab.
Also, idc what anyone says, Mike Tyson would eat alive Tyson Fury.
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Mike handles a good jab just fine and would’ve dealt with Roy’s no problem. He handled Larry Holmes jab easily and he’s considered to have one of the best jabs of all time and he annihilated him within 4 rounds. I can’t ever mention Tyson facing Lewis cuz it was nowhere near the same killer in the 2000s. Lewis got him at the right time but it wasent his fault.
John Ruiz was a good option out of all the HWs then. A tiny HW that could’ve competed at Cruiser. He beat Evander and had a draw in a time where he was getting on. Facing 90s Holyfield might’ve been a different fight. Then again the HW division was in disarray after Lennox retired in 2003. Chris Byrd was champ, Brewster, Sanders, Vlad wasent champ material yet. Valiev, Vitali. Those last two guys size would’ve been an issue for Roy at HW so it’s a good job he moved back down. I give props to Roy for doing that but I can’t accept that he would’ve beaten a prime Tyson. We’ll never be on the same page with that. Tyson in the 90s was not a monster. 2000s Tyson was nothing. He did ok after jail for a little bit in the mid 90s onwards, but 85-89 Tyson was the ultimate monster. One of the best to ever do it and it’s a travesty that he should’ve had so much more if he had the right people in his life.
I agree that Mike was one of the hardest hitters ever, along with Ernie Shavers, Ken Norton, Foreman, Liston, Frazier, Tua, Tommy Morrison. I put Lennox in that mix. Horrible boxer but Wilder is in there. Freakish right hand coming from a Cruiserweight size. Mike didn’t just have one shot though like a lot of the others listed did. His power at close range came from both hooks and uppercuts cuz he had to get within this range as he was only 5”11. This is how he dealt with HWs much bigger and long(with good jabs). His lateral movement was something else to close the distance well.
As for Tyson Fury. Very hard to compare. Fury is an awkward boxer to deal with. His size, length and boxing ability is a problem for a lot of fighters(past and present). Just so hard to compare.
Holeydel said:
Anyone catch up on Diaz Masvidal II? I had it 5-5 by the nights end, with Diaz rallying towards the end. If I had to lean somewhere, it would be Masvidal with the cleaner harder shots.
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Not my thing, there were a few watching it in a thread somewhere. Maybe hijacked the last UFC live thread
Xamot said:
I always felt Vitali was better than Wladimir, but... that fight with Byrd was WEIRD, I never was a fan of Byrd though so maybe it clouded my judgment on his win over Vitali, but it felt more lucky than anything else to me. Like when Lewis (as usual) knocked out Vitali, it just seemed like a foregone conclusion that any hype train or REALLY good boxer who came against lewis, was gonna get wrecked lol.
Lewis needs to be talked about more too though, Look at the LEGENDS he decimated, Vitali (In a bloody war), Tyson, Holyfield, Hasim (Who beat him), Morrison, Mercer, etc...
THAT'S IT, I'm changing my HW top 5, Lewis is in it now. THAT is a Murder's ROW of people. Done.
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Lewis is the best HW ever imo.
I don’t think anyone is a reasonable favorite against him.
If so who?
Ali? Possibly. Foreman, no.
Holyfield was not gifted the draw, it was reasonable, but he’s a freak and anyone who bets on his fights is nuts.
Holeydel said:
Anyone catch up on Diaz Masvidal II? I had it 5-5 by the nights end, with Diaz rallying towards the end. If I had to lean somewhere, it would be Masvidal with the cleaner harder shots.
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Two scorecards were insane. I had it a draw or one round up for Nate. I really thought it was going to be a majority draw, but 8-2 to Nate on one scorecard is utter madness. Mas did hit him with the harder cleaner shots but Nate’s volume was higher. Some rounds could’ve been even. Fun fight. Shocked Jorge fought southpaw. I’m trying to remember if he ever fought southpaw before in MMA and cannot remember if he did.
Riz Farmer said:
Lewis is the best HW ever imo.
I don’t think anyone is a reasonable favorite against him.
If so who?
Ali? Possibly. Foreman, no.
Holyfield was not gifted the draw, it was reasonable, but he’s a freak and anyone who bets on his fights is nuts.
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I respect Lewis, like I said, top 5. I do have 0 issue Swapping him with Foreman, but Foreman is a top 5 HW all time. I don't think it can be debated that Ali is better. No HW boxer is better than Ali, but... Like I stated, much respect to the beast though. Top 5 is not a knock, anyone in there can technically alternate between 3, 4 and 5. I do feel the top 2 are set.
MMAFTM13 said:
Two scorecards were insane. I had it a draw or one round up for Nate. I really thought it was going to be a majority draw, but 8-2 to Nate on one scorecard is utter madness. Mas did hit him with the harder cleaner shots but Nate’s volume was higher. Some rounds could’ve been even. Fun fight. Shocked Jorge fought southpaw. I’m trying to remember if he ever fought southpaw before in MMA and cannot remember if he did.
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Few instances he did, he did it for the partially in the Maia fight, only because (as a wrestler myself I know) he wanted to keep his strongest hand forward to negate the takedown. Probably the reason Maia took those flush shots from him like nothing, because Jorge cannot (usually) piece together combos with his strong hand as the lead hand, no matter how great of a boxer he thinks he is, he's no switch stance artist. Jorge has to LUNGE at you when he's in a southpaw stance, because he's not used to using his right hand as the lead hand, Anytime Mas went back to conventional (which was 80% of the contest so it's not some long time he was southpaw like against nate), he got taken down.
Cool funny thing? masvidal was in a southpaw stance when he knocked out till. Also proving my point, he lunged at Till with the left hand that was back, because he was in southpaw.
I could go through a few more fights, but those are just off the top of my head.
Oh also, I had Diaz 7-3 by the way. The volume, everything, I thought Diaz clearly won.
Growing up in NYC during the peak of the Tyson era, it's tough to not have Tyson near the top. But another guy I've always liked watching was Bernard Hopkins. That guy is a bad ***.
They had a replay of Haggler vs Hearns on ESPN the other day. That fight was awesome. They just brawled from the opening bell. I think that particular era was the best boxing era.... Haggler, Hearns, Sugar Ray Leonard, Camacho, Boom Boom Mancini... It kind of felt like the 2007-2013 or so UFC when you had Shogun, Machida, Rashad, Forrest, Spider, Rich Franklin. They weren't all HoFers but there were so many fun match-ups to make, especially at LHW where they all rotated the belt until Jon Jones came along and wiped them all out.
Since that boxing era and since that UFC run, I don't feel like there has been a collection of so many interesting and competitive guys all at once if that makes sense.
Xamot said:
Few instances he did, he did it for the partially in the Maia fight, only because (as a wrestler myself I know) he wanted to keep his strongest hand forward to negate the takedown. Probably the reason Maia took those flush shots from him like nothing, because Jorge cannot (usually) piece together combos with his strong hand as the lead hand, no matter how great of a boxer he thinks he is, he's no switch stance artist. Jorge has to LUNGE at you when he's in a southpaw stance, because he's not used to using his right hand as the lead hand, Anytime Mas went back to conventional (which was 80% of the contest so it's not some long time he was southpaw like against nate), he got taken down.
Cool funny thing? masvidal was in a southpaw stance when he knocked out till. Also proving my point, he lunged at Till with the left hand that was back, because he was in southpaw.
I could go through a few more fights, but those are just off the top of my head.
Oh also, I had Diaz 7-3 by the way. The volume, everything, I thought Diaz clearly won.
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Well we found one of the three judges.
cmvideo75 said:
Growing up in NYC during the peak of the Tyson era, it's tough to not have Tyson near the top. But another guy I've always liked watching was Bernard Hopkins. That guy is a bad ***.
They had a replay of Haggler vs Hearns on ESPN the other day. That fight was awesome. They just brawled from the opening bell. I think that particular era was the best boxing era.... Haggler, Hearns, Sugar Ray Leonard, Camacho, Boom Boom Mancini... It kind of felt like the 2007-2013 or so UFC when you had Shogun, Machida, Rashad, Forrest, Spider, Rich Franklin. They weren't all HoFers but there were so many fun match-ups to make, especially at LHW where they all rotated the belt until Jon Jones came along and wiped them all out.
Since that boxing era and since that UFC run, I don't feel like there has been a collection of so many interesting and competitive guys all at once if that makes sense.
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You know what this proves? That boxing for us combat sports fans, is still #1, now current boxing... ima give my support to MMA, but overall, Boxing probably had more of an impact on all of us than MMA ever could. Now we love the sport, but to be able to have a thread of people speak about Boxers who they loved, eras they loved, fights/stoppages they loved, etc... And to compare it to the greatest era mma ever had (07-13) is amazing.
Hearns and Hag did brawl until the bell though, such a shame it was only 3 round but it was 3 rounds of fun and violence.
nubbynub69 said:
Well we found one of the three judges.
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I couldn't be an mma judge, because if you're holding someone and just stalling the action, I'm deducting points, idgaf. If all you're doing is holding, no strikes (significant strikes, none of that oh popping their head a bit), and the guy SOMEHOW gets up and throws a few punches that land. I'm giving him the round, because wtf are you doing? If you're not looking for a finish or to deliver damage, GET UP! If I wanted to see hugs, I'd watch barney.
Also clinching.. you got 20 seconds to do something significant or I'm taking points away, I'll be the first motherf---er to have a scorecard read over a 5 round fight as 6-49 I DO NOT CARE. NOBODY came to see you hug someone to death, nobody came to see you clinch someone to death, nobody came to watch you leg kick and run away, nobody came to watch you throw strikes and run away (Getting a better position is not running away, I've literally seen people strike and run away, like Volk)
I want MMA to adopt the knockdown rules that boxing has (don't stop the action, but inform the judges that was a knockdown) and have Judges start scoring that also, a knockdown (automatic 10-8 round, unless you do damage enough to bring it back to 9, and make it a 9-9 round)
Now I'm not an imbecile, I also don't want to see brawl for all and s---, I want ACTUAL fighting, what Usman and Covington did to RDA was annoying, but effective. They were doing damage from the top (as much as possible) and moving to a more advantageous position also.