Please note, this is a question, not a statement.
After Matt Hughes has dominated three of their best, it made me wonder why they're so highly praised. I mean, if it had been three different fighters it would still be a curious coincidence, but by the same fighter, it's kinda embarrassing.
Should they be embarrassed? Should they still be considered amongst the best? Is it the fault of the style, the teaching, or the fighters themselves? Should they hire Hughes to school them all?
Originally posted by: BlindBanshee Date: August 10, 2010 at 03:06 AM Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/should-the-gracies-be-embarrassed.29010/
sincitydc said:
i don't think so. being beaten by one of the best ww's of all time isn't anything to hang your head about.
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^^^ as much as I am not a fan of Hughes he is still a very dangerous fighter. lets also look at it like this
1 - Serra - Some people still think Serra won that fight plus Serra really is a lightweight that wont cut to make 155 so Hughes had an enormous natural size advantage over him.
2 - Renzo - The man is in his 40s. Not everyone in their 40s is Randy Couture
3 - Royce - Lets be real, as much of a legend as he is, as much as MMA owes its existance in part to him he never evolved his game.
4 - Almeda - Hughes was just better that night, life happens. Someone has to win and someone has to lose
Originally posted by: BlindBanshee Date: August 10, 2010 at 03:34 AM Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/should-the-gracies-be-embarrassed.29010/
Mikaelbg said:
IMO, it just proved that wrestling > BJJ.
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So what was Maia vs Sonnen? Or Silva vs Sonnen for that matter? Sobral vs Mike van Arsdale? I'm sure there are more.
Originally posted by: Brulesrules001 Date: August 10, 2010 at 04:01 AM Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/should-the-gracies-be-embarrassed.29010/
BlindBanshee said:
Mikaelbg said:
IMO, it just proved that wrestling > BJJ.
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So what was Maia vs Sonnen? Or Silva vs Sonnen for that matter? Sobral vs Mike van Arsdale? I'm sure there are more.
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Truth is, wrestling base + ok bjj> top level bjj.
Originally posted by: BlindBanshee Date: August 10, 2010 at 04:13 AM Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/should-the-gracies-be-embarrassed.29010/
I think wrestlers can pick up BJJ more easily than BJJ guys can pick up wrestling, sure; but you did just say that the wrestler needs to know some BJJ in order to have the advantage right? I don't think straight wrestling is better than straight BJJ for a second.
Originally posted by: Brulesrules001 Date: August 10, 2010 at 04:17 AM Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/should-the-gracies-be-embarrassed.29010/
BlindBanshee said:
I think wrestlers can pick up BJJ more easily than BJJ guys can pick up wrestling, sure; but you did just say that the wrestler needs to know some BJJ in order to have the advantage right? I don't think straight wrestling is better than straight BJJ for a second.
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You need some good submission defense training.
Originally posted by: mma_guru333 Date: August 10, 2010 at 04:19 AM Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/should-the-gracies-be-embarrassed.29010/
How can anyone say that one is better than the other? Imo its how you apply it to your game, and thats what makes the difference just because "insert BJJ player here" beats "insert wrestler here" or vice versa doesn't prove anything as far as which art is better. It all comes down to how the individual applies his art to MMA.
Originally posted by: Brulesrules001 Date: August 10, 2010 at 04:20 AM Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/should-the-gracies-be-embarrassed.29010/
Originally posted by: BlindBanshee Date: August 10, 2010 at 04:21 AM Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/should-the-gracies-be-embarrassed.29010/
Originally posted by: Brulesrules001 Date: August 10, 2010 at 04:28 AM Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/should-the-gracies-be-embarrassed.29010/
BlindBanshee said:
Arealbigdeal said:
You need some good submission defense training.
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...so BJJ basically.
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Like is said, wrestling base + ok bjj> top level bjj.
The wrestling base is better then the BJJ base.
Originally posted by: mma_guru333 Date: August 10, 2010 at 04:32 AM Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/should-the-gracies-be-embarrassed.29010/
Arealbigdeal said:
But the wrestling base is better then the BJJ base.
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Again it depends on how you apply it, but since your so sold on this concept, which one of all the best P4P fighters has a wrestling base?
Originally posted by: BlindBanshee Date: August 10, 2010 at 04:34 AM Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/should-the-gracies-be-embarrassed.29010/
And I was disagreeing with the guy who said wrestling was better than BJJ. You're still saying that a wrestler needs to know BJJ in order to beat a skilled BJJ practitioner.
If anyone has embarrassed the Gracies, it sure as hell ain't Hughes. That accolade would go to Kazushi Sakuraba.
In MMA lately the Gracies are not doing particularly great, but in jiu jitsu, the family name is as dominant as ever in the form of Roger Gracie (2010 Super Heavyweight & Absolute Mundials Champion, 7th Super HW Gold, 3rd Absolute Gold).
Originally posted by: Fedor_is_god Date: August 10, 2010 at 08:12 AM Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/should-the-gracies-be-embarrassed.29010/
Originally posted by: Quickash1t Date: August 10, 2010 at 08:21 AM Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/should-the-gracies-be-embarrassed.29010/
