Im sure you do this to help me learn patience
Triple M Junkie Idol Game thread
- Thread starter thedarkwingduck2k11
- Start date
You will wait until you're told that you have obviously been eliminated.
P.S. although your entry was painfully obviously yours
.
for
.
some
.
reason
PPS: I gave it a good score.
motives
Itsy Bitsy Tiny Weiner
Ha ha.
. I've actually figured that out but use them as a placeholders as I'm writing and rewriting. Ran short on time this round and missed removing a few of them on my final proofread. 
Tito Orcheese
MTM Junkie Idol Jesus
Keep talking like that and you're going to win
Tito Orcheese
MTM Junkie Idol Jesus
Only if Del is tanking, lol. My "war movie" pick probably didn't even bring in 20.
You've said similar things before.....
Tito Orcheese
MTM Junkie Idol Jesus
thedarkwingduck2k11
Well-known member
Round 7 (Semi-final pt. 1)
This is the first of two rounds of the semi-final. We will be using motives' and Eranys' categories this round.
1. Eranys- Best War Movie Ever Made.
Submit a clip that illustrates why your choice is the best war movie ever made. You must also include a write up explaining your clip selection and articulating why the film as a whole stands as the greatest war movie in cinema history. Entries will be judged on the strength of the chosen clip, the quality of the write up, and the persuasiveness of the argument.
A. @Tito Orcheese
300
Why I picked the clip is easy enough to explain: It's 8 1/2 minutes of pure badassery. This clip is representative of how this entire spectacle of a movie plays out.
First, I'll say that I'm thankful that "historical accuracy" was mentioned nowhere in the criteria; this is why I quickly picked this movie. The film covers the Battle of Thermopylae during the Greco-Persian Wars in which 300 Spartans stand against an overwhelming Persian army that numbers in the hundreds of thousands. They definitely took liberties with the subject matter for the movie, but the choices made were only to make the movie better. For example, instead of 300 Spartans leading 7000 Greeks in this battle, they just decided to go with 300 Spartans. This increases the stakes of the film, the legend of Spartan soldiers, and the impact of the acts of courage and sacrifice depicted in the film. Good things.
King Leonidas and the Spartan soldiers are just fantastic characters. Bred and built for battle, these soldiers rise above the rest due to their extensive training, confidence, courage, and willingness to die for each other. Their own King is the best of them, confidently leading them into a battle where they are outnumbered 1000 to 1. Leonidas stating "Today, no Spartan dies," being certain that will be the case, tells you all you need to know about the mindset and skills of Spartan soldiers. It's easy to make a great movie about a group such as this.
While there are plenty of good war movies out there, none of them will have you buzzing quite the same as when you've finished a watch of 300. There really isn't another war movie like it. It's unique, hyper-stylized aesthetic, brutally violent combat scenes, and intense, well-delivered dialogue will have you energized and engaged throughout. If you're looking for an abundance of scenes with soldiers walking through fields, trudging down dirt roads, hiding in buildings, or chilling in the woods, you won't find that here.
The sheer rewatchability of the film is the main reason I will call it the best. It has great action sequences, great dialogue, and substance all at the same time. I'd say the core themes of a war movie would be: courage, camaraderie, and sacrifice. If you watch 300, you will see it fits the bill and more while also standing out among the rest due to its unique style. If I was ordered to watch either Das Boot or 300 once per week for the next year, I know which one I'm picking.
There you have it! Some folks might want to watch Tom Hanks suck Ryan's private, or Mel Gibson fight for freedom in Scotland, or Mel Gibson fight for freedom in America, or Mel Gibson fight against communism in Vietnam, but I will always choose to watch Gerard and company, and their airbrushed abs, killing wave after wave of Persians.
webble: This clip had ponies and abs what more could a girl want? The music soundtrack was appropriate and not overpowering the way some can be. The actors were good and the script had lots of quotable moments. The right up was good and honest about the historical inaccuracy, it lacked a little passion for me and the CGI use ruined it a little in that it made it harder to empathise with characters that didn’t feel quite real but I guess that is the way the world is going 7/10
cmvideo75: I don't know about this one. I do like the impassioned write up trying to sell it but it's not working because it's a little too fantastical for my liking for a war movie. There are so many fantastic realistic war movies and that kind of makes this one seem too cartoonish. It's like the Spartans were superheroes.... kind of silly. 6/10
Brick: A stretch of a choice, which is just fine to go for it at this late stage. Very entertaining movie, but not really feeling the “best war movie ever made” aspect here. While true, historical accuracy was not specifically mentioned as a potentially disqualifying criterion, nevertheless it can be an objective (outside of this content’s specific criteria) determinant of the quality of a “war movie.” Realism helps bring the viewer into the feel of the film; putting yourself in place of a civil war suicide charge or the Mogadishu Mile. Seeing real people just like you potentially sacrificing everything and digging deep for valor that they aren’t sure they even have. Experiencing tragic loss. 300 has very little of any of that, because it’s so over-the-top entertaining, that it’s more about hopping from one extremely cool scene to another. It’s nearly impossible to generate any connection with something so fun and ridiculous. Very good movie, just not a “best” War Movie. 6/10.
GoodCat: This is a good pick, but it's nowhere close to the "best" war movie ever made. Far from the worst in the round, but also not quite the best. 8/10
Total: 27
B. @Eranys
The Thin Red Line
Part I: Why The Thin Red Line is the Greatest War Movie Ever Made
Most war films, even the great ones, reduce combat to a narrative of tactical objectives, heroic sacrifice, or simple survival. They treat war as an extraordinary event that happens to men. Terrence Malick’s The Thin Red Line operates on a much higher plane: it treats war as an existential disease inflicted upon both the human soul and the natural world.
What elevates The Thin Red Line above every other way movie in cinema history is its refusal to glorify or trivialize the nature of conflict. Through its haunting, poetic voiceovers and John Toll’s amazing cinematography, the film constantly contrasts the serene, indifferent beauty of the Pacific wilderness with the senseless, violence of man. Supported by Hans Zimmer’s transcendent score, Malick does not merely show us what war looks like, he shows us what war feels like on a deeply emotional and spiritual level. It is a cinematic masterpiece that strips away Hollywood bravado to ask the philosophical question: “This great evil, where’s it come from? How’d it steal into the world?”
Part II: The Scene Breakdown — The Assault on Hill 210 (The Grassy Knoll Charge)
This scene is an infantry push led by Private Bell and Sergeant Welsh through the waist high kunai grass, crawling under heavy machinegun fire to flank the entrenched Japanese bunker at the peak of Hill 210.
While the film as a whole is a deeply philosophical meditation, the assault on Hill 210 is a masterful depiction of the terrifying, visceral reality of infantry combat. This sequence stands out as the peak of the film, and war cinema as a whole, for three distinct reasons:
This single sequence encapsulates the entire genius of The Thin Red Line. It delivers the dramatic intensity required of high stakes combat while preserving the profound,tragic weight of human life being expended on a grassy hill.
(Side note: it was a bummer that the best clip for this scene cut off the soldiers breaking down after the hill was taken. It was a good scene that demonstrated the emotional toll that combat takes on soldiers.)
webble: This write up was excellent, the passion and use of language set up for the clip beautifully, it was like verbal foreplay. Growing up my dad was a tv engineer and used to use Kelly Heros as his test film, this had a similar vibe and pulled at my nostalgia. Only having a few characters in the scene was a bonus in that I was immediately behind them and rooting for them. The effects of temporary deafness from the gunshot was well portrayed and I agree the shots of the grass were very atmospheric great choice 10/10
cmvideo75: Excellent scene. More of what I was looking for in a war movie. Very intense right off the bat with the group having to decide what to do with the guy who was just shot in 10 seconds while under fire. Good acting and excellent cinematography, a key part of a war film. 8/10
Brick: Solid pick. This movie would likely have had more traction and more replay value had it not existed in the shadow of the legendary Saving Private Ryan. While this is a good scene and overall a good war movie, it suffered from (as I recall; it’s been a while) a slightly less-defined narrative and an extremely less-defined set of characters (they all kind of blurred together, while Ryan did excellent character development). A good, realistic, gritty scene and a good write-up, though, so 7.5/10.
GoodCat: I've never seen this movie, but have always heard about it in the conversation of war movies along with Full Metal Jacket, Apocalypse Now, etc. The write up definitely does a good job of putting it over as the best. It's gonna be very hard to convince someone who has never seen the movie that this one is the best. My personal pick would be Full Metal Jacket. But this one does a good job of selling it for sure. 9/10
Total: 34.5
This is the first of two rounds of the semi-final. We will be using motives' and Eranys' categories this round.
1. Eranys- Best War Movie Ever Made.
Submit a clip that illustrates why your choice is the best war movie ever made. You must also include a write up explaining your clip selection and articulating why the film as a whole stands as the greatest war movie in cinema history. Entries will be judged on the strength of the chosen clip, the quality of the write up, and the persuasiveness of the argument.
A. @Tito Orcheese
300
First, I'll say that I'm thankful that "historical accuracy" was mentioned nowhere in the criteria; this is why I quickly picked this movie. The film covers the Battle of Thermopylae during the Greco-Persian Wars in which 300 Spartans stand against an overwhelming Persian army that numbers in the hundreds of thousands. They definitely took liberties with the subject matter for the movie, but the choices made were only to make the movie better. For example, instead of 300 Spartans leading 7000 Greeks in this battle, they just decided to go with 300 Spartans. This increases the stakes of the film, the legend of Spartan soldiers, and the impact of the acts of courage and sacrifice depicted in the film. Good things.
King Leonidas and the Spartan soldiers are just fantastic characters. Bred and built for battle, these soldiers rise above the rest due to their extensive training, confidence, courage, and willingness to die for each other. Their own King is the best of them, confidently leading them into a battle where they are outnumbered 1000 to 1. Leonidas stating "Today, no Spartan dies," being certain that will be the case, tells you all you need to know about the mindset and skills of Spartan soldiers. It's easy to make a great movie about a group such as this.
While there are plenty of good war movies out there, none of them will have you buzzing quite the same as when you've finished a watch of 300. There really isn't another war movie like it. It's unique, hyper-stylized aesthetic, brutally violent combat scenes, and intense, well-delivered dialogue will have you energized and engaged throughout. If you're looking for an abundance of scenes with soldiers walking through fields, trudging down dirt roads, hiding in buildings, or chilling in the woods, you won't find that here.
The sheer rewatchability of the film is the main reason I will call it the best. It has great action sequences, great dialogue, and substance all at the same time. I'd say the core themes of a war movie would be: courage, camaraderie, and sacrifice. If you watch 300, you will see it fits the bill and more while also standing out among the rest due to its unique style. If I was ordered to watch either Das Boot or 300 once per week for the next year, I know which one I'm picking.
There you have it! Some folks might want to watch Tom Hanks suck Ryan's private, or Mel Gibson fight for freedom in Scotland, or Mel Gibson fight for freedom in America, or Mel Gibson fight against communism in Vietnam, but I will always choose to watch Gerard and company, and their airbrushed abs, killing wave after wave of Persians.
webble: This clip had ponies and abs what more could a girl want? The music soundtrack was appropriate and not overpowering the way some can be. The actors were good and the script had lots of quotable moments. The right up was good and honest about the historical inaccuracy, it lacked a little passion for me and the CGI use ruined it a little in that it made it harder to empathise with characters that didn’t feel quite real but I guess that is the way the world is going 7/10
cmvideo75: I don't know about this one. I do like the impassioned write up trying to sell it but it's not working because it's a little too fantastical for my liking for a war movie. There are so many fantastic realistic war movies and that kind of makes this one seem too cartoonish. It's like the Spartans were superheroes.... kind of silly. 6/10
Brick: A stretch of a choice, which is just fine to go for it at this late stage. Very entertaining movie, but not really feeling the “best war movie ever made” aspect here. While true, historical accuracy was not specifically mentioned as a potentially disqualifying criterion, nevertheless it can be an objective (outside of this content’s specific criteria) determinant of the quality of a “war movie.” Realism helps bring the viewer into the feel of the film; putting yourself in place of a civil war suicide charge or the Mogadishu Mile. Seeing real people just like you potentially sacrificing everything and digging deep for valor that they aren’t sure they even have. Experiencing tragic loss. 300 has very little of any of that, because it’s so over-the-top entertaining, that it’s more about hopping from one extremely cool scene to another. It’s nearly impossible to generate any connection with something so fun and ridiculous. Very good movie, just not a “best” War Movie. 6/10.
GoodCat: This is a good pick, but it's nowhere close to the "best" war movie ever made. Far from the worst in the round, but also not quite the best. 8/10
Total: 27
B. @Eranys
The Thin Red Line
Part I: Why The Thin Red Line is the Greatest War Movie Ever Made
Most war films, even the great ones, reduce combat to a narrative of tactical objectives, heroic sacrifice, or simple survival. They treat war as an extraordinary event that happens to men. Terrence Malick’s The Thin Red Line operates on a much higher plane: it treats war as an existential disease inflicted upon both the human soul and the natural world.
What elevates The Thin Red Line above every other way movie in cinema history is its refusal to glorify or trivialize the nature of conflict. Through its haunting, poetic voiceovers and John Toll’s amazing cinematography, the film constantly contrasts the serene, indifferent beauty of the Pacific wilderness with the senseless, violence of man. Supported by Hans Zimmer’s transcendent score, Malick does not merely show us what war looks like, he shows us what war feels like on a deeply emotional and spiritual level. It is a cinematic masterpiece that strips away Hollywood bravado to ask the philosophical question: “This great evil, where’s it come from? How’d it steal into the world?”
Part II: The Scene Breakdown — The Assault on Hill 210 (The Grassy Knoll Charge)
This scene is an infantry push led by Private Bell and Sergeant Welsh through the waist high kunai grass, crawling under heavy machinegun fire to flank the entrenched Japanese bunker at the peak of Hill 210.
While the film as a whole is a deeply philosophical meditation, the assault on Hill 210 is a masterful depiction of the terrifying, visceral reality of infantry combat. This sequence stands out as the peak of the film, and war cinema as a whole, for three distinct reasons:
- Unvarnished Realism and Exhaustion:There are no action hero cliches here. The soldiers are not charging forward with reckless abandon; they are terrified, sweat soaked, and hyperventilating in the dirt. Malick captures the brutal physics of infantry warfare: the agonizing drag of crawling through tall grass, the disorientation of unseen fire, the suffocating heat, and the sheer physical exhaustion of men forced to move forward when every instinct commands them down.
- The Audio/Visual Masterpiece ("Journey to the Line"):The sequence is driven by Hans Zimmer’s perfectly fitting track, "Journey to the Line." The score acts like a ticking clock, building an unbearable, slow burn tension that mirrors the rising panic of the men on the hill. It does not instruct the audience how to feel with sensationalized brass; it elevates the sequence into a solemn, heart pounding advance toward death or victory.
- Tactical and Emotional Precision:The scene captures the exact micro mechanics of ground combat: spatial awareness, suppression, flank movement, and command pressure, while never losing sight of the human cost. When the bunker is finally breached, the camera does not celebrate a triumph. It focuses on the hollowed out eyes of the survivors and the quiet horror of the fallen.
This single sequence encapsulates the entire genius of The Thin Red Line. It delivers the dramatic intensity required of high stakes combat while preserving the profound,tragic weight of human life being expended on a grassy hill.
webble: This write up was excellent, the passion and use of language set up for the clip beautifully, it was like verbal foreplay. Growing up my dad was a tv engineer and used to use Kelly Heros as his test film, this had a similar vibe and pulled at my nostalgia. Only having a few characters in the scene was a bonus in that I was immediately behind them and rooting for them. The effects of temporary deafness from the gunshot was well portrayed and I agree the shots of the grass were very atmospheric great choice 10/10
cmvideo75: Excellent scene. More of what I was looking for in a war movie. Very intense right off the bat with the group having to decide what to do with the guy who was just shot in 10 seconds while under fire. Good acting and excellent cinematography, a key part of a war film. 8/10
Brick: Solid pick. This movie would likely have had more traction and more replay value had it not existed in the shadow of the legendary Saving Private Ryan. While this is a good scene and overall a good war movie, it suffered from (as I recall; it’s been a while) a slightly less-defined narrative and an extremely less-defined set of characters (they all kind of blurred together, while Ryan did excellent character development). A good, realistic, gritty scene and a good write-up, though, so 7.5/10.
GoodCat: I've never seen this movie, but have always heard about it in the conversation of war movies along with Full Metal Jacket, Apocalypse Now, etc. The write up definitely does a good job of putting it over as the best. It's gonna be very hard to convince someone who has never seen the movie that this one is the best. My personal pick would be Full Metal Jacket. But this one does a good job of selling it for sure. 9/10
Total: 34.5
thedarkwingduck2k11
Well-known member
C. @Holeydel
Come and See (1985)
Considering the immense suffering and destruction of war, no war in history is ever described as being the best and as such a best war movie should be one that dives deep into its violent atrocities and pain. Realism. If your movie is not being true to the accuracies of war then you do not have a Best War Movie. One of these contestants has selected Saving Private Ryan. Please. Good for capturing the horrific noise, blood and chaos of combat but lacks any logic and is full of inaccuracies. The U.S. Army would never risk an entire squad of highly trained Army Rangers to enter enemy territory to personally relieve one Paratrooper of his duty for a public relations stunt. Snipers don’t hide in tall bell towers for all the enemy to see. The Waffen-SS didn’t wear those uniforms depicted in the film. With liberties and inaccuracies such as these, you may as well had gone with Star Wars. Another contestant picked The Thin Red Line. I’m going to give you that, this guy gets it. You are exploring the psychological impact of war and how it changes man. What the film lacks is the plot mainly follows the perspective of the soldiers, which is typically what every war films does. Still it’s a great pick and I hope to be up against you this round.
This round I have a movie that you may never heard of let alone seen. If either of those apply to the judges, I encourage a little research given my immediate disadvantage. Come and See is a 1985 Soviet anti-war movie and is considered by historians to be one of the most realistic, factually accurate and devastating war films ever made. Based during the Nazi occupation of Belorussia in 1943 and specifically the atrocities committed by notorious Dirlewanger Brigade, an SS unit made up of convicted criminals led by a sadistic commander. This unit was responsible for the destruction of over 600 villages and the murders of a quarter of the countries population, often burning villagers alive inside locked barns. The film did not need to invent horrors to shock the audience, instead recounting survivor testimonies compiled the books Khatyn and I Am From The Fiery Village written by script co-writer Ales Adamovich. He too has his own experiences fighting as a Soviet partisan as a teenager while director Elem Klimov as a child escaped across the Volga river using a makeshift raft during the German assault on Stalingrad. Come and See follows a young boy Flyora, played by Alexsei Kravchenko, who upon finding a rifle in a field goes to join the partisan fighters defending their land. His initial excitement for adventure and childhood innocence is quickly replaced by the nightmare reality of Nazi occupation as the film acptures how cruel and terrifying war is for regular civilians.
The scene I wish to use for my submission is too long to post and my moral compass won’t allow me to do a disservice to the survivors by asking the judges to cut to a section. If I did use the scene, I suspect it would make you feel sickened despite everything you’ve seen in film in the 40 years since Come and See was released. Instead I’ll leave you with an interview from Director Elem Klimov where he talks of lead child actor Kravchenko’s reaction to filming, his loyalty to truth over commercial success and the reaction upon the films release. This segment begins at 12.11 and I’ll highlight a couple of quotes that really separates this film from other war movies: 'Of course, awards are not the point here.' 'I don’t regret having made that film, it had a difficult genesis and a difficult history. But one has to make a difference once in a while, to commit to something worthy.'
In deciding how to judge this category, I would like you to consider this litmus test: What words, adjectives and expressions would you use to describe the movie? Now ask yourself if a Holocaust survivor would use those same words to describe their experiences. Entertaining, exciting, brilliant and must see should not be the answer here. The best war movie is a movie that you would recommend, but you yourself have no desire to see a second time. It doesn’t leave you afterwards with a sense of satisfaction. It’s not enjoyable. It will be brutal. It will be difficult to watch. Come and See is a movie that will make you quietly reflect once it is over because the movie isn’t searching for glory, it’s not telling a tale of heroism or defiance and nor does it search your approval as an audience. Instead it shows something much different from most war films, the unfiltered horrific reality as seen from the largest group of war, civilians. It’s not fun or profitable for Hollywood to realistically depict war and yet despite all their war movies and budgeting, a foreign language film from Soviet cinema is still to this day widely regarded amongst the greatest movies period ever made. Who knew remaining truthful could be so hard.
Come and See Director Interview. Begin 12.11
webble: This write up was long and I’m not sure the first paragraph helped your cause. I haven’t seen any of these movies so I didn’t look into any of them any further than the write ups and clips. The second half of the write up was fantastic and really supported the clip. I have mixed feelings about the fact you haven’t posted a clip of the actual movie and I think you really should have because whilst the very serious looking chap conveyed the how and the why I think its hard to judge without actual movie details 6/10
cmvideo75: This gotta be Duck's entry lol. So in the finals you're going to submit a Russian language film that no one has seen and also not provide an actual clip from the film? What is this interview with the director supposed to tell me about the actual quality of the film, which is what we are judging here? This was a big swing and a miss for me. Also, unless this was Duck, how would you know what the other entries were unless you tried submitting them yourself before this disaster... in which case you are admitting that those are better films because you tried taking them first. So major fail if this was an actual contestant entry. 1/10
Brick: The only one I haven’t heard of, so I was excited to jump in and see a bit of it…but no. Your write-up makes a pretty good case, but it was hard to fully feel the impact of what you were going for here because of a complete lack of context – you chose to show a director interview as opposed to a movie scene. Alas, I fear it was the wrong choice. Not because of any disqualifying criteria foul, as Eranys clearly asked for a clip (which can be defined quite broadly) and not a scene (which is specific to something from the movie), but rather because even an abbreviated scene would have given me some feel for what we are talking about here. You could have shown us something of the movie and then pretty easily summarized the director’s story in your write-up (which, frankly, wasn’t even that great of a story). The good write-up saves you some points here, but I came away from this unmoved and likely to forget this movie even exists by tomorrow. This might well be a good movie but your gameplay was terrible. 3.5/10.
GoodCat: This one kinda gave itself away by mentioning one of the other submissions. So unless that was just a hell of a good guess, I think we all know already who sent this one in. Now as for the movie itself, it's another one I have not seen but have heard about over the years. And reading up a bit more about it, it was pretty crazy in how it was made. They apparently used live ammunition on set and the lead actor came dangerously close to being shot multiple times. And they also actually shot and killed a cow for one of the scenes. I think tales like that probably helped out its notoriety over the years, similar to the movie Cannibal Holocaust. But since the clip used wasn't even from the actual movie, I have to ding it a bit for that. 6/10
Total: 16.5
D. darkwing
The Deer Hunter-POW Russian Roulette Scene
Very few films can capture the psychological impact war leaves behind as the Deer Hunter did. The movie followed a normal group of friends from their early adulthood years, showing their naivety and eagerness to serve their country, by enlisting the Vietnam War, as if it was a path to glory. They were completely unaware of the psychological trauma that awaited for them. One such trauma inducing incident was the Russian Roulette game, where prisoners were forced to play against one another until one ended up dead. Although Nicky survived and even escaped, his life as a normal person ended, living in a catatonic and shell shocked state which he never got out of until death. This movie also accurately depicted how different people can react differently to the same traumatic experience. One person can still be somewhat functional in society while another one was completely lost.
The reason why I think this is the best war movie is that it captures the full experience of war, from the gung-ho early years to the consequences of war.
webble: This write up was short and to the point, I could have done with a bit more to hook me but it was nice that it didn’t waffle. This was another clip that due to its era pulled on my nostalgia a bit, I also felt I had to judge it of its time not compared to modern films. It was a well chosen clip and built suspense well although there was a bit too much face slapping. I know it was set during war but it didn’t feel like a war clip, it was an emotional rollercoaster though 8/10
cmvideo75: Good selection. Great war movie and good scene. A little lacking in the write up on why this is the best one ever though. But I do like the argument of showing how real war changes people and shows the full ride from beginning to end. Could have just hashed it out a little bit more for me. 7/10
Brick: I saw The Deer Hunter on VHS when I was a teen and hated it, as my teenage brain was expecting more Platoon-type nonsense. As an adult upon a rewatch, I finally got it. Quite a slow burn…until it isn’t. This is quite a memorable scene (although not quite as much as the later similar one), but it suffers a bit as I recall the whole POW Russian Roulette thing in Vietnam was a complete fabrication – it simply never happened. Not a deal breaker as, hey, it’s a movie, but still. Granted, a fair bit of the run time takes place away from the traditional war “action,” but I think that’s fine, as war is clearly the central theme of the movie. Of the ones I’ve reviewed so far, giving this the edge over Thin Red Line as there are several scenes from this one that stuck with me to this day, but not so much with TRL. 8/10
GoodCat: So this one might get some heat on me, but I don't really consider Deer Hunter an actual war movie. The backdrop is war, definitely. But the movie is more about the psychological effects that war takes on people. You even mentioned that yourself in the write up. I knew there wasn't much actual war time, but I looked it up, and of the total 182 minute run time, there is only about 40 minutes of it showing actual war. And I might be alone in this, but I am expecting the clips submitted to have war scenes in them. And this one obviously doesn't. 6/10
Come and See (1985)
Considering the immense suffering and destruction of war, no war in history is ever described as being the best and as such a best war movie should be one that dives deep into its violent atrocities and pain. Realism. If your movie is not being true to the accuracies of war then you do not have a Best War Movie. One of these contestants has selected Saving Private Ryan. Please. Good for capturing the horrific noise, blood and chaos of combat but lacks any logic and is full of inaccuracies. The U.S. Army would never risk an entire squad of highly trained Army Rangers to enter enemy territory to personally relieve one Paratrooper of his duty for a public relations stunt. Snipers don’t hide in tall bell towers for all the enemy to see. The Waffen-SS didn’t wear those uniforms depicted in the film. With liberties and inaccuracies such as these, you may as well had gone with Star Wars. Another contestant picked The Thin Red Line. I’m going to give you that, this guy gets it. You are exploring the psychological impact of war and how it changes man. What the film lacks is the plot mainly follows the perspective of the soldiers, which is typically what every war films does. Still it’s a great pick and I hope to be up against you this round.
This round I have a movie that you may never heard of let alone seen. If either of those apply to the judges, I encourage a little research given my immediate disadvantage. Come and See is a 1985 Soviet anti-war movie and is considered by historians to be one of the most realistic, factually accurate and devastating war films ever made. Based during the Nazi occupation of Belorussia in 1943 and specifically the atrocities committed by notorious Dirlewanger Brigade, an SS unit made up of convicted criminals led by a sadistic commander. This unit was responsible for the destruction of over 600 villages and the murders of a quarter of the countries population, often burning villagers alive inside locked barns. The film did not need to invent horrors to shock the audience, instead recounting survivor testimonies compiled the books Khatyn and I Am From The Fiery Village written by script co-writer Ales Adamovich. He too has his own experiences fighting as a Soviet partisan as a teenager while director Elem Klimov as a child escaped across the Volga river using a makeshift raft during the German assault on Stalingrad. Come and See follows a young boy Flyora, played by Alexsei Kravchenko, who upon finding a rifle in a field goes to join the partisan fighters defending their land. His initial excitement for adventure and childhood innocence is quickly replaced by the nightmare reality of Nazi occupation as the film acptures how cruel and terrifying war is for regular civilians.
The scene I wish to use for my submission is too long to post and my moral compass won’t allow me to do a disservice to the survivors by asking the judges to cut to a section. If I did use the scene, I suspect it would make you feel sickened despite everything you’ve seen in film in the 40 years since Come and See was released. Instead I’ll leave you with an interview from Director Elem Klimov where he talks of lead child actor Kravchenko’s reaction to filming, his loyalty to truth over commercial success and the reaction upon the films release. This segment begins at 12.11 and I’ll highlight a couple of quotes that really separates this film from other war movies: 'Of course, awards are not the point here.' 'I don’t regret having made that film, it had a difficult genesis and a difficult history. But one has to make a difference once in a while, to commit to something worthy.'
In deciding how to judge this category, I would like you to consider this litmus test: What words, adjectives and expressions would you use to describe the movie? Now ask yourself if a Holocaust survivor would use those same words to describe their experiences. Entertaining, exciting, brilliant and must see should not be the answer here. The best war movie is a movie that you would recommend, but you yourself have no desire to see a second time. It doesn’t leave you afterwards with a sense of satisfaction. It’s not enjoyable. It will be brutal. It will be difficult to watch. Come and See is a movie that will make you quietly reflect once it is over because the movie isn’t searching for glory, it’s not telling a tale of heroism or defiance and nor does it search your approval as an audience. Instead it shows something much different from most war films, the unfiltered horrific reality as seen from the largest group of war, civilians. It’s not fun or profitable for Hollywood to realistically depict war and yet despite all their war movies and budgeting, a foreign language film from Soviet cinema is still to this day widely regarded amongst the greatest movies period ever made. Who knew remaining truthful could be so hard.
Come and See Director Interview. Begin 12.11
cmvideo75: This gotta be Duck's entry lol. So in the finals you're going to submit a Russian language film that no one has seen and also not provide an actual clip from the film? What is this interview with the director supposed to tell me about the actual quality of the film, which is what we are judging here? This was a big swing and a miss for me. Also, unless this was Duck, how would you know what the other entries were unless you tried submitting them yourself before this disaster... in which case you are admitting that those are better films because you tried taking them first. So major fail if this was an actual contestant entry. 1/10
Brick: The only one I haven’t heard of, so I was excited to jump in and see a bit of it…but no. Your write-up makes a pretty good case, but it was hard to fully feel the impact of what you were going for here because of a complete lack of context – you chose to show a director interview as opposed to a movie scene. Alas, I fear it was the wrong choice. Not because of any disqualifying criteria foul, as Eranys clearly asked for a clip (which can be defined quite broadly) and not a scene (which is specific to something from the movie), but rather because even an abbreviated scene would have given me some feel for what we are talking about here. You could have shown us something of the movie and then pretty easily summarized the director’s story in your write-up (which, frankly, wasn’t even that great of a story). The good write-up saves you some points here, but I came away from this unmoved and likely to forget this movie even exists by tomorrow. This might well be a good movie but your gameplay was terrible. 3.5/10.
GoodCat: This one kinda gave itself away by mentioning one of the other submissions. So unless that was just a hell of a good guess, I think we all know already who sent this one in. Now as for the movie itself, it's another one I have not seen but have heard about over the years. And reading up a bit more about it, it was pretty crazy in how it was made. They apparently used live ammunition on set and the lead actor came dangerously close to being shot multiple times. And they also actually shot and killed a cow for one of the scenes. I think tales like that probably helped out its notoriety over the years, similar to the movie Cannibal Holocaust. But since the clip used wasn't even from the actual movie, I have to ding it a bit for that. 6/10
Total: 16.5
D. darkwing
The Deer Hunter-POW Russian Roulette Scene
The reason why I think this is the best war movie is that it captures the full experience of war, from the gung-ho early years to the consequences of war.
webble: This write up was short and to the point, I could have done with a bit more to hook me but it was nice that it didn’t waffle. This was another clip that due to its era pulled on my nostalgia a bit, I also felt I had to judge it of its time not compared to modern films. It was a well chosen clip and built suspense well although there was a bit too much face slapping. I know it was set during war but it didn’t feel like a war clip, it was an emotional rollercoaster though 8/10
cmvideo75: Good selection. Great war movie and good scene. A little lacking in the write up on why this is the best one ever though. But I do like the argument of showing how real war changes people and shows the full ride from beginning to end. Could have just hashed it out a little bit more for me. 7/10
Brick: I saw The Deer Hunter on VHS when I was a teen and hated it, as my teenage brain was expecting more Platoon-type nonsense. As an adult upon a rewatch, I finally got it. Quite a slow burn…until it isn’t. This is quite a memorable scene (although not quite as much as the later similar one), but it suffers a bit as I recall the whole POW Russian Roulette thing in Vietnam was a complete fabrication – it simply never happened. Not a deal breaker as, hey, it’s a movie, but still. Granted, a fair bit of the run time takes place away from the traditional war “action,” but I think that’s fine, as war is clearly the central theme of the movie. Of the ones I’ve reviewed so far, giving this the edge over Thin Red Line as there are several scenes from this one that stuck with me to this day, but not so much with TRL. 8/10
GoodCat: So this one might get some heat on me, but I don't really consider Deer Hunter an actual war movie. The backdrop is war, definitely. But the movie is more about the psychological effects that war takes on people. You even mentioned that yourself in the write up. I knew there wasn't much actual war time, but I looked it up, and of the total 182 minute run time, there is only about 40 minutes of it showing actual war. And I might be alone in this, but I am expecting the clips submitted to have war scenes in them. And this one obviously doesn't. 6/10
thedarkwingduck2k11
Well-known member
E. @motives
Omaha Beach Landing-Saving Private Ryan
A military car turns down a dirt road toward a rural farmhouse. A woman holding a laundry basket sees them approaching. There is no sound only the visual drama as the woman sees the chaplain accompanying the servicemen and collapses in her doorway.
This scene is not the beginning of the film. Though, it is the beginning of the story told in Steven Spielberg's 1998 World War II classic, Saving Private Ryan.
Written by New Hampshire screenwriter Robert Rodat in 1994 after being inspired by a monument in his hometown And reading Stephen E. Ambrose's D-Day: June 6, 1944. The script found its way into the hands of Tom Hanks, who immediately passed it on to Stephen Speiberg Who decided he wanted use it to honor veterans of world war II like his father. Spielberg wanted to create a film stripped of Hollywood heroism to show the true brutality of what they went through on the beaches of Normandy that day.
To accomplish this, he would bring in his Oscar-winning cinematographer, Janusz Kamiński, whose first task on the film was convincing Spielberg not to shoot it in black and white. "Black and white was the right choice for Schindler's List because of the subject matter and because most of the footage of the Nazi atrocities was filmed in black and white," related Kamiński in an interview with the American Society of Cinematographers. "However, there is a great deal of footage from World War II that is in color. Steven and I didn't want to shoot Private Ryan in black and white, and I think it would have been a little pretentious to do another World War II film that way."
Kamiński would go on to win his second Oscar for his work on the World War II epic.
Spielberg joined Kaminsky's talents with the renowned work of sound designers Gary Rydstrom and Richard Hymns, who used simple acoustic authenticity to put viewers directly into the surf with the soldiers, utilizing real recordings of World War II-era weapons like the MG42 ("Hitler's zipper") and M1 Garand cartridge pings. Rather than focusing purely on gun muzzle blasts and explosions. The sound team emphasized the violent, distinct SNAPS and THWAPS of bullets hitting the water, the sand, metal, and flesh. With Rydstrom cleverly using the sound of a fly-fishing line ripping across water to recreate the terrifying sound of bullets penetrating the surface in underwater scenes. Rydstrom, Hymns, and their team also won the 1998 Oscars for Best Sound and Best Sound Editing/FX
With a crackerjack team in place, Spielberg would now need to focus on telling the story of eight World War II soldiers (C Company) on a mission behind enemy lines to locate and rescue one Private James F. Ryan, whose only three brothers were all killed in action recently. The squad is to find Private Ryan and return him to camp so that he can be sent home to his mother, as he is the last surviving son of Mrs. Ryan, which not coincidentally makes for a pretty good wartime headline in the papers back home. A fact that isn't lost on Captain Miller's C Company as they begrudgingly follow orders while questioning the logic of risking eight trained soldiers' lives to save one Private James Ryan. Their resentment toward him grows increasingly bitter as more and more squad members die along the way.
Steven Spielberg needed a core group of actors to play the soldiers tasked with rescuing Private Ryan, alongside Tom Hanks as Captain John Miller and Matt Damon as Private James Francis Ryan. The main cast included Tom Sizemore, Ed Burns, Barry Pepper, Adam Goldberg, Jeremy Davies, Giovanni Ribisi, and Vin Diesel.
The Core Cast: "C Company"
Tom Hanks as Captain John Miller
Tom Sizemore as Sergeant Mike Horvath
Ed Burns as Private Richard Reiban
Barry Pepper as Private Daniel Jackson
Adam Goldberg as Private Stanley Melish
Jeremy Davies as Corporal Timothy Upham
Giovanni Ribisi as T/4 Medic Irwin Wade
Vin Diesel as Private Adrian Caparzo
Matt Damon as Private James Francis Ryan.
.
These actors would carry the emotional weight of the story. They would be tasked with bringing the humanity to Saving Private Ryan. While portraying the movie's core themes of duty, brotherhood, and the worth of sacrifice.
Because while the opening Invasion scene is the most memorable and technically amazing, Saving Private Ryan has a poignant, character driven story to tell that only uses the amazing opening invasion scene as a springboard for the rest of the story.
After the beach landing, the squad is reduced to Captain Miller, Sergeant Horvath, Private Mellish, Private Reiben, Private Jackson, Private Caparzo and T/4 medic Wade.. Later, desk clerk Timothy Upham joins them despite being better suited for map-making and nap taking. The corporal speaks both French and German. And Captain Miller is in need of a translator.
Played by Jeremy Davies, Corporal Upham is the most naive and inexperienced member of the group. He romanticizes war and recites poetry and is deeply unsuited for the moral compromises of the front lines. He is timid with a forgiving nature. He will make it home from this war. He will also be responsible for the deaths of at least two members of C-Company.
With his team set, Captain Miller and his eight-man Ad Hoc unit set off on their mission to save Private James F. Ryan. However, the men of C Company are not happy about it, questioning the logic of the mission as they trek deeper behind enemy lines.
At the forefront of this skepticism is Private Richard Reiben, played by Edward Burns, who asks,
"You want to explain the math of this to me? I mean, where's the sense in risking the lives of the eight of us to save one guy?"
When squad medic Wade sympathetically asks Reiben to think of Private Ryan's mother, Reiben replies,
"Hey, Doc, I got a mother, all right? I mean, you got a mother, Sergeant's got a mother... I mean, shit, I bet even the Captain's got a mother. Well, maybe not the Captain, but the rest of us got mothers."
Reiben serves as the subconscious of the group because his questioning makes perfect sense. As a tough, pragmatic soldier from Brooklyn, he is both honest and reliable. He smokes cigars rather than cigarettes and is fiercely protective of the group. Well-liked among all the members of his unit, Reiben often entertains them with stories of his sexual conquests back home.
Ultimately Private Reiben will be the only member of the unit to survive. mission. We last see him retrieving Caparzo's letter from Captain Miller signifying that he will fulfill his fallen brothers' wishes and carry on with his duty.
The same can't be said for the other members of C Company tho.
Starting with Private Adrian Caparza.
We first meet Private First Class Adrian Caparzo as he is puking on his boots in the boat before the beach landing. Played by a young Vin Diesel in a role Spielberg had specifically written for him after seeing his semi-autobiographical short film "Multi-Facial."
Private Caparzo is a tough, street-smart kid from New York City. He is as far away from home as all of them, but he stays compassionate, trying to feed stray dogs and disobeying orders to rescue a small girl in the town of Neuville.
"She reminds me of my niece. We got to do the right thing," Caparzo tells Captain Miller as he sets the child down, and he is immediately shot through the chest by a German sniper. He slowly dies as the rest of the team shelters behind a truck, helpless as he asks them to clean the blood off his letter so that it can be sent to his father.
As Caparzo bleeds out in the street and the rest of the team is pinned down. The team's designated sniper, Private Daniel Jackson, moves to secure a position to locate the shooter. Pinpointing a glint from the German sniper's rifle, the 2nd Ranger Battalion sharpshooter from West Fork, Tennessee, fires a legendary shot directly through the German sniper's scope.
Portrayed by veteran actor Barry Pepper, Private Jackson is a devout Christian and the team's emotional rock, never showing the same cynicism the rest of the squad displays as they question the mission. He also serves as a sort of spiritual backbone for the team, as he shapes duty around a God-given purpose:
"Well, it seems to me, sir, that God gave me a special gift, made me a fine instrument of warfare." P
Private Jackson is obliterated when a German tank fires on the bell tower he is using to sniper incoming German regiments
Private Jackson's cold and clean lethality from above stands in stark contrast to Technician Fourth Grade (T/4) medic Irwin Wade's muddy and hands-on life-saving skills.
Played by Giovanni Ribisi, Wade is a combat medic who is probably the most battle-weary member of Charlie Company. He is gentle and compassionate to everyone, acting as a soft-spoken "glue" that holds the company together both figuratively and literally. He is an extremely capable combat medic who displays a real devotion to saving lives, along with genuine care for each individual member of the unit.
The men cannot return the favor after he is mortally wounded while trying to take out a German MG 42 machine gun nest. Initially trying to walk the team through how to treat his wounds, the medic loses his composure when he sees the damage.
"Oh my God, my liver! Oh my God, it's my liver!"
He asks for more morphine, and the group decides to give him what they know will be a lethal dose to ease his pain. As he is dying, he cries out,
"I don't want to die!"
But the men of Charlie Company can do little more than hold him as Wade slips away, crying for his mother
.
The death of Wade fractures C Company, with Private Reiben losing his shit after Captain Miller decides to release a German soldier they dub affectionately dub "Steamboat Willie."
Private Reiben declares he is done with this pointless mission, but Sergeant Horvath is having none of that shit. He sees a direct challenge to the chain of command and immediately pulls his .45 on Private Reiben.
If "fuck around and find out" was a person, they might look a lot like Tom Sizemore's perfectly played Sergeant Mike Horvath. Already having served with Captain Miller in North Africa and Italy, Sergeant Horvath is the most experienced and battle-hardened of the group. He likes to collect cans of sand from each country he has served in, and he is Captain Miller's unwavering right hand. Even after being mortally wounded defending the ruined bridge in Ramelle, Sergeant Horvath still attempts to stand and keep fighting until he succumbs to his wounds and dies silently as Captain Miller watches.
Of all the deaths in Saving Private Ryan, it is Private Stanley Mellish’s that is the most avoidable. He is the hilariously cynical Jewish kid from Yonkers, New York, and his service in this war is deeply personal.
There is a sad irony to his death, as it mirrors how much of Europe stood by and watched what Hitler did to his people. Corporal Upham hides in a stairwell, frozen with fear and failing to act as he holds the ammunition Private Mellish desperately needs.
This forces Mellish into a desperate hand-to-hand combat fight that he eventually loses, stabbed to death by a nameless German soldier, all the while Upham listens and cowers in fear.
Speaking of irony, during the scene where Private Reiben attempts to leave the squad, it is Captain Millerwho quells the uprising by revealing that he is an English teacher from Pennsylvania.
.
"What's the pool on me up to right now? ... I'm a school teacher... Sometimes I wonder if I've changed so much my wife is even gonna to recognize me...
...... I just know that every man I kill the farther away from home I feel."
Capt. Miller gives this speech and reveal as part of the reasoning that he will release their German prisoner.
That same German soldier, the one that they affectionately dubbed "Steamboat Willie," returns later and shoots Captain Miller to death on the bridge in Ramelle
Private James Francis Ryan
.
Private Ryan when eventually found by C Company, they expect a spoiled child but instead find a solid soldier dedicated to his post. He convinces them to help defend the strategic bridge and manages to survive the war, carrying a heavy debt. To fulfill Captain Miller’s final order, Ryan must live a meaningful and worthy life to honor the sacrifice made by Miller and his men.
.
The Omaha Beach landing:
.
The Omaha Beach landing in Saving Private Ryan's opening battle scene is widely considered one of the most raw, chaotic, and authentic battle sequences ever made. It drops the you dead in the middle of the action, side by side with the soldiers, experiencing every bit of the unfiltered chaos and terror of combat. The scene abandons heroism for messy, desperate survival and is done almost entirely with practical effects.
Omaha Beach Landing
.(Scene)/link
You can watch the entire opening 24 minutes here if you've never seen the movie:
pluto.tv
While great films like "All's Quiet" and "1917" Excel at showing the sweeping futility of war.
And Apocalypse Now and Full Metal Jacket explorer the mental aspect of war.
It is Saving Private Ryan that is superior in its technical execution, intimacy, and character driven focus.
webble: Saving Private Ryan I guess this film seemed the obvious choice, its not one I have seen but the background to it in the write up was actually interesting so thank you for that. The write up then continuing to tell me about the film was a bit longer than needed but that’s ok, anyway onto the clip. This was really well done, the fact not a lot happens in the first few mins gives them time to set the scene the little touches of the puking and the signs of the cross made me take a breath. I liked the flicking between the under and over water shots and contrast between the silence and the sound of guns. The action went on a bit too long and I didn’t love the shaky camera it made it hard to follow, although understand it adds to the effects, this definitely followed the directive of depicting war 9/10
cmvideo75: Good clip selection and entry, a totally plagiarized write up. Come on now. AI or just cut and pasted? What is that?? There is no way that is a real write up. Major flaw here. 5/10
Brick: Easy pick, but that doesn’t necessarily make it the wrong pick, and in this case it is not the wrong pick. Even your other contestants, who tried to pick this but failed, mentioned it in their write-ups, as they were so afraid of going up against it they tried to shit all over it in advance to try to shame the judges into shitting on it too. Nice try. But clearly one of the greatest war movies of all time. Sure, the story is a bit contrived, but scene after scene builds into a great movie, as well as really good character development and identification. Need to tighten up that write-up; I don’t think we needed a full biography of everyone, so docked just a bit for that. 8.5/10.
GoodCat: While I've already mentioned that Full Metal Jacket is my personal pick for best war movie, this one definitely can be argued for it. I think the write up did a great job at explaining pretty much everything that needs to be said on this one. I think what helps a movie like this is that it is modern enough to where the visual effects don't look stupid and out of place, whereas some of the older movies from the 70s didn't have the level of visuals so they had to get a little more creative. So while this one still isn't my personal favorite, I can definitely hear the argument that it is actually the best. 10/10
Total: 32.5
Omaha Beach Landing-Saving Private Ryan
A military car turns down a dirt road toward a rural farmhouse. A woman holding a laundry basket sees them approaching. There is no sound only the visual drama as the woman sees the chaplain accompanying the servicemen and collapses in her doorway.
This scene is not the beginning of the film. Though, it is the beginning of the story told in Steven Spielberg's 1998 World War II classic, Saving Private Ryan.
Written by New Hampshire screenwriter Robert Rodat in 1994 after being inspired by a monument in his hometown And reading Stephen E. Ambrose's D-Day: June 6, 1944. The script found its way into the hands of Tom Hanks, who immediately passed it on to Stephen Speiberg Who decided he wanted use it to honor veterans of world war II like his father. Spielberg wanted to create a film stripped of Hollywood heroism to show the true brutality of what they went through on the beaches of Normandy that day.
To accomplish this, he would bring in his Oscar-winning cinematographer, Janusz Kamiński, whose first task on the film was convincing Spielberg not to shoot it in black and white. "Black and white was the right choice for Schindler's List because of the subject matter and because most of the footage of the Nazi atrocities was filmed in black and white," related Kamiński in an interview with the American Society of Cinematographers. "However, there is a great deal of footage from World War II that is in color. Steven and I didn't want to shoot Private Ryan in black and white, and I think it would have been a little pretentious to do another World War II film that way."
Kamiński would go on to win his second Oscar for his work on the World War II epic.
Spielberg joined Kaminsky's talents with the renowned work of sound designers Gary Rydstrom and Richard Hymns, who used simple acoustic authenticity to put viewers directly into the surf with the soldiers, utilizing real recordings of World War II-era weapons like the MG42 ("Hitler's zipper") and M1 Garand cartridge pings. Rather than focusing purely on gun muzzle blasts and explosions. The sound team emphasized the violent, distinct SNAPS and THWAPS of bullets hitting the water, the sand, metal, and flesh. With Rydstrom cleverly using the sound of a fly-fishing line ripping across water to recreate the terrifying sound of bullets penetrating the surface in underwater scenes. Rydstrom, Hymns, and their team also won the 1998 Oscars for Best Sound and Best Sound Editing/FX
With a crackerjack team in place, Spielberg would now need to focus on telling the story of eight World War II soldiers (C Company) on a mission behind enemy lines to locate and rescue one Private James F. Ryan, whose only three brothers were all killed in action recently. The squad is to find Private Ryan and return him to camp so that he can be sent home to his mother, as he is the last surviving son of Mrs. Ryan, which not coincidentally makes for a pretty good wartime headline in the papers back home. A fact that isn't lost on Captain Miller's C Company as they begrudgingly follow orders while questioning the logic of risking eight trained soldiers' lives to save one Private James Ryan. Their resentment toward him grows increasingly bitter as more and more squad members die along the way.
Steven Spielberg needed a core group of actors to play the soldiers tasked with rescuing Private Ryan, alongside Tom Hanks as Captain John Miller and Matt Damon as Private James Francis Ryan. The main cast included Tom Sizemore, Ed Burns, Barry Pepper, Adam Goldberg, Jeremy Davies, Giovanni Ribisi, and Vin Diesel.
The Core Cast: "C Company"
Tom Hanks as Captain John Miller
Tom Sizemore as Sergeant Mike Horvath
Ed Burns as Private Richard Reiban
Barry Pepper as Private Daniel Jackson
Adam Goldberg as Private Stanley Melish
Jeremy Davies as Corporal Timothy Upham
Giovanni Ribisi as T/4 Medic Irwin Wade
Vin Diesel as Private Adrian Caparzo
Matt Damon as Private James Francis Ryan.
.
These actors would carry the emotional weight of the story. They would be tasked with bringing the humanity to Saving Private Ryan. While portraying the movie's core themes of duty, brotherhood, and the worth of sacrifice.
Because while the opening Invasion scene is the most memorable and technically amazing, Saving Private Ryan has a poignant, character driven story to tell that only uses the amazing opening invasion scene as a springboard for the rest of the story.
After the beach landing, the squad is reduced to Captain Miller, Sergeant Horvath, Private Mellish, Private Reiben, Private Jackson, Private Caparzo and T/4 medic Wade.. Later, desk clerk Timothy Upham joins them despite being better suited for map-making and nap taking. The corporal speaks both French and German. And Captain Miller is in need of a translator.
Played by Jeremy Davies, Corporal Upham is the most naive and inexperienced member of the group. He romanticizes war and recites poetry and is deeply unsuited for the moral compromises of the front lines. He is timid with a forgiving nature. He will make it home from this war. He will also be responsible for the deaths of at least two members of C-Company.
With his team set, Captain Miller and his eight-man Ad Hoc unit set off on their mission to save Private James F. Ryan. However, the men of C Company are not happy about it, questioning the logic of the mission as they trek deeper behind enemy lines.
At the forefront of this skepticism is Private Richard Reiben, played by Edward Burns, who asks,
"You want to explain the math of this to me? I mean, where's the sense in risking the lives of the eight of us to save one guy?"
When squad medic Wade sympathetically asks Reiben to think of Private Ryan's mother, Reiben replies,
"Hey, Doc, I got a mother, all right? I mean, you got a mother, Sergeant's got a mother... I mean, shit, I bet even the Captain's got a mother. Well, maybe not the Captain, but the rest of us got mothers."
Reiben serves as the subconscious of the group because his questioning makes perfect sense. As a tough, pragmatic soldier from Brooklyn, he is both honest and reliable. He smokes cigars rather than cigarettes and is fiercely protective of the group. Well-liked among all the members of his unit, Reiben often entertains them with stories of his sexual conquests back home.
Ultimately Private Reiben will be the only member of the unit to survive. mission. We last see him retrieving Caparzo's letter from Captain Miller signifying that he will fulfill his fallen brothers' wishes and carry on with his duty.
The same can't be said for the other members of C Company tho.
Starting with Private Adrian Caparza.
We first meet Private First Class Adrian Caparzo as he is puking on his boots in the boat before the beach landing. Played by a young Vin Diesel in a role Spielberg had specifically written for him after seeing his semi-autobiographical short film "Multi-Facial."
Private Caparzo is a tough, street-smart kid from New York City. He is as far away from home as all of them, but he stays compassionate, trying to feed stray dogs and disobeying orders to rescue a small girl in the town of Neuville.
"She reminds me of my niece. We got to do the right thing," Caparzo tells Captain Miller as he sets the child down, and he is immediately shot through the chest by a German sniper. He slowly dies as the rest of the team shelters behind a truck, helpless as he asks them to clean the blood off his letter so that it can be sent to his father.
As Caparzo bleeds out in the street and the rest of the team is pinned down. The team's designated sniper, Private Daniel Jackson, moves to secure a position to locate the shooter. Pinpointing a glint from the German sniper's rifle, the 2nd Ranger Battalion sharpshooter from West Fork, Tennessee, fires a legendary shot directly through the German sniper's scope.
Portrayed by veteran actor Barry Pepper, Private Jackson is a devout Christian and the team's emotional rock, never showing the same cynicism the rest of the squad displays as they question the mission. He also serves as a sort of spiritual backbone for the team, as he shapes duty around a God-given purpose:
"Well, it seems to me, sir, that God gave me a special gift, made me a fine instrument of warfare." P
Private Jackson is obliterated when a German tank fires on the bell tower he is using to sniper incoming German regiments
Private Jackson's cold and clean lethality from above stands in stark contrast to Technician Fourth Grade (T/4) medic Irwin Wade's muddy and hands-on life-saving skills.
Played by Giovanni Ribisi, Wade is a combat medic who is probably the most battle-weary member of Charlie Company. He is gentle and compassionate to everyone, acting as a soft-spoken "glue" that holds the company together both figuratively and literally. He is an extremely capable combat medic who displays a real devotion to saving lives, along with genuine care for each individual member of the unit.
The men cannot return the favor after he is mortally wounded while trying to take out a German MG 42 machine gun nest. Initially trying to walk the team through how to treat his wounds, the medic loses his composure when he sees the damage.
"Oh my God, my liver! Oh my God, it's my liver!"
He asks for more morphine, and the group decides to give him what they know will be a lethal dose to ease his pain. As he is dying, he cries out,
"I don't want to die!"
But the men of Charlie Company can do little more than hold him as Wade slips away, crying for his mother
.
The death of Wade fractures C Company, with Private Reiben losing his shit after Captain Miller decides to release a German soldier they dub affectionately dub "Steamboat Willie."
Private Reiben declares he is done with this pointless mission, but Sergeant Horvath is having none of that shit. He sees a direct challenge to the chain of command and immediately pulls his .45 on Private Reiben.
If "fuck around and find out" was a person, they might look a lot like Tom Sizemore's perfectly played Sergeant Mike Horvath. Already having served with Captain Miller in North Africa and Italy, Sergeant Horvath is the most experienced and battle-hardened of the group. He likes to collect cans of sand from each country he has served in, and he is Captain Miller's unwavering right hand. Even after being mortally wounded defending the ruined bridge in Ramelle, Sergeant Horvath still attempts to stand and keep fighting until he succumbs to his wounds and dies silently as Captain Miller watches.
Of all the deaths in Saving Private Ryan, it is Private Stanley Mellish’s that is the most avoidable. He is the hilariously cynical Jewish kid from Yonkers, New York, and his service in this war is deeply personal.
There is a sad irony to his death, as it mirrors how much of Europe stood by and watched what Hitler did to his people. Corporal Upham hides in a stairwell, frozen with fear and failing to act as he holds the ammunition Private Mellish desperately needs.
This forces Mellish into a desperate hand-to-hand combat fight that he eventually loses, stabbed to death by a nameless German soldier, all the while Upham listens and cowers in fear.
Speaking of irony, during the scene where Private Reiben attempts to leave the squad, it is Captain Millerwho quells the uprising by revealing that he is an English teacher from Pennsylvania.
.
"What's the pool on me up to right now? ... I'm a school teacher... Sometimes I wonder if I've changed so much my wife is even gonna to recognize me...
...... I just know that every man I kill the farther away from home I feel."
Capt. Miller gives this speech and reveal as part of the reasoning that he will release their German prisoner.
That same German soldier, the one that they affectionately dubbed "Steamboat Willie," returns later and shoots Captain Miller to death on the bridge in Ramelle
Private James Francis Ryan
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Private Ryan when eventually found by C Company, they expect a spoiled child but instead find a solid soldier dedicated to his post. He convinces them to help defend the strategic bridge and manages to survive the war, carrying a heavy debt. To fulfill Captain Miller’s final order, Ryan must live a meaningful and worthy life to honor the sacrifice made by Miller and his men.
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The Omaha Beach landing:
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The Omaha Beach landing in Saving Private Ryan's opening battle scene is widely considered one of the most raw, chaotic, and authentic battle sequences ever made. It drops the you dead in the middle of the action, side by side with the soldiers, experiencing every bit of the unfiltered chaos and terror of combat. The scene abandons heroism for messy, desperate survival and is done almost entirely with practical effects.
Omaha Beach Landing
.(Scene)/link
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While great films like "All's Quiet" and "1917" Excel at showing the sweeping futility of war.
And Apocalypse Now and Full Metal Jacket explorer the mental aspect of war.
It is Saving Private Ryan that is superior in its technical execution, intimacy, and character driven focus.
webble: Saving Private Ryan I guess this film seemed the obvious choice, its not one I have seen but the background to it in the write up was actually interesting so thank you for that. The write up then continuing to tell me about the film was a bit longer than needed but that’s ok, anyway onto the clip. This was really well done, the fact not a lot happens in the first few mins gives them time to set the scene the little touches of the puking and the signs of the cross made me take a breath. I liked the flicking between the under and over water shots and contrast between the silence and the sound of guns. The action went on a bit too long and I didn’t love the shaky camera it made it hard to follow, although understand it adds to the effects, this definitely followed the directive of depicting war 9/10
cmvideo75: Good clip selection and entry, a totally plagiarized write up. Come on now. AI or just cut and pasted? What is that?? There is no way that is a real write up. Major flaw here. 5/10
Brick: Easy pick, but that doesn’t necessarily make it the wrong pick, and in this case it is not the wrong pick. Even your other contestants, who tried to pick this but failed, mentioned it in their write-ups, as they were so afraid of going up against it they tried to shit all over it in advance to try to shame the judges into shitting on it too. Nice try. But clearly one of the greatest war movies of all time. Sure, the story is a bit contrived, but scene after scene builds into a great movie, as well as really good character development and identification. Need to tighten up that write-up; I don’t think we needed a full biography of everyone, so docked just a bit for that. 8.5/10.
GoodCat: While I've already mentioned that Full Metal Jacket is my personal pick for best war movie, this one definitely can be argued for it. I think the write up did a great job at explaining pretty much everything that needs to be said on this one. I think what helps a movie like this is that it is modern enough to where the visual effects don't look stupid and out of place, whereas some of the older movies from the 70s didn't have the level of visuals so they had to get a little more creative. So while this one still isn't my personal favorite, I can definitely hear the argument that it is actually the best. 10/10
Total: 32.5
thedarkwingduck2k11
Well-known member
2. motives- Best motivational speech in a movie.
Pick a movie scene with the best motivational speech. No write-ups.
A. motives
Rocky Balboa
webble: Hmmm this was ok but I felt a bit told off rather than motivated 7/10
cmvideo75: Oh the wisdom Rocky has acquired. Good motivational speech, essentially telling his son to suck it up and stop being a puss.... he did it very much in the Mickey kind of style that used to motivate him, so it fits with the character in this point of his life. Good entry. 7/10
Brick: Too cliched to be truly motivation. “The world ain’t all sunshine and rainbows” or “the world will beat you to your knees and keep you there permanently.” Snore. It only gets worse from there. “You’re better than that!” Awful dreck. 4.5/10.
GoodCat: I'm a little torn on this one. On one hand, it is a great speech. I saw this movie in theaters way before my son came along and it definitely hits harder now than it did back then. But I struggle with this being a motivational speech, and more of a "open your eyes" kinda deal. Milo's face was more "dad really just put me in my place" rather than "hell yeah, let's go!!". 5/10
Total: 23.5
B. darkwing
The Hustler
webble: I think write ups being allowed would have helped this clip to give context. I liked it though, the descriptive language and the sense of harmony when things are going right spoke to me 8/10
cmvideo75: Hahahaha... I was watching thinking, where is the motivational speech?? Then it got to the last 5 seconds hahaha... I gave this a couple of points just for the laugh. 3/10
Brick: Decent speech…but seems a stretch to call this a motivational speech. Who is he trying to motivate? Certainly not her. And he’s the only other person in the scene, and he’s not trying to motivate himself either. He’s being descriptive of his confidence and motivation. It doesn’t seem like he’s talking himself up for something, rather bragging about being the man and how good it feels to win. A complete miss. 3/10.
GoodCat: I don't really know WTF this is, but it came off more like a guy trying to clap some cheeks and not being motivational. Unless he's trying to motivate her to let him smash. 1/10
C. Eranys
Independence Day
webble: Oooo more nostalgia and I felt inspired by this one I wanted to shout yeah at the end of it! 10/10
cmvideo75: It is a classic speech and scene but pretty corny. I was never a big fan of this one, especially with how it is delivered by Bill Pullman. Doesn't do it for me. But it fits here and is classic so I'm not nuking it. 6/10
Brick: Ugh, this again. I think someone submitted this in a previous idol category and this cheese-fest did not go well there either. I mean, it fits the category much better than whatever TF that Hustler entry was supposed to be, and as schlocky as it was maybe rose a touch above that Rocky clip. So, marginally better score than those two, but not great. Short and sweet, at least. 5.5/10.
GoodCat: Yeah, this is the good stuff right here! If you listen really closely, the president's voice kinda sounds a little like Trump. Coincidence? Probably. But still. And he had to pull out the best motivational speech in history to make up for the fact that he had Cousin Eddie of all people to count on to stop an alien invasion. And it was so good that it actually worked! 9/10
Total:30.5
D. Holeydel
Darkest Hour (2017)
webble: This was another inspiring one, I think we could do with Winston back today. It flipped back and forth between positive and negative points but a very famous speech but overall great 9/10
cmvideo75: Oh man... bringing the history into this round with a little Winston Churchill lol. Great speech based on a real event and well delivered in a good movie. Good entry. 8/10
Brick: Now we’re talking. Fits the category, and is finally actually a good speech; you know you’re on to something when people are still talking about it 85 years later. Proper motivation when the stakes absolutely could not be higher. This is not some father scolding his whiney, bitch-ass kid or pool shark rambling to his girlfriend about how awesome he is; this is guy motivating an entire nation (and beyond) into a fight for utter survival when things looked quite bleak. 10/10.
GoodCat: What I really like about this one is that it is a much more realistic type of motivational speech. A lot of movies and shows will do the whole dramatic pause before the completely silent crowd erupts in applause, and if done right, that can still be really awesome. But this is a lot more how normal people would react. Getting excited with each point made, etc. Great pick 10/10
Total: 37
E. Tito Orcheese
Any Given Sunday
webble: I think this could have been a bit shorter, it went on about inches too long but it was motivational 8/10
cmvideo75: Yeah, it's the low hanging fruit but in terms of movie motivational speeches, this is it. Sports speeches always work great and it's Al Pacino in full Al Pacino form. There's a few F bombs in there for emphasis during the speech. If I had to give a speech, there would be a lot of motivational F bombs. This is my winner. It's used in sports arena everywhere as a pump up clip. 10/10
Brick: Started out pretty emo, but that’s apparently part of building the crescendo. He pulls it off in the second half. A bit over the top, but that’s how things go with sports teams, especially football (plus, well, Pacino lol). If I remember the movie I think it makes even more sense in context, I think the team was fractured which adds some weight to many of his words. 7.5/10.
GoodCat: This was almost exactly what I was talking about in the previous review about the dramatized movie speech and this was a perfect example of it. Not a bad pick by any means, I actually really liked the build up in this. He started out just talking a little casually, but then once he started talking about the inches, you hear a few "yeah" sprinkled in, and by the end everyone is ready to run thru the wall. 8/10
Total:33.5
Match 1
motives=32.5+23.5=56
Eranys= 34.5+30.5=65
Match 2
Tito Orcheese=27+33.5=60.5
Holeydel=16.5+37=53.5
Next round will begin on Monday 8/24. We will be doing categories from Tito and Holeydel.
Pick a movie scene with the best motivational speech. No write-ups.
A. motives
Rocky Balboa
cmvideo75: Oh the wisdom Rocky has acquired. Good motivational speech, essentially telling his son to suck it up and stop being a puss.... he did it very much in the Mickey kind of style that used to motivate him, so it fits with the character in this point of his life. Good entry. 7/10
Brick: Too cliched to be truly motivation. “The world ain’t all sunshine and rainbows” or “the world will beat you to your knees and keep you there permanently.” Snore. It only gets worse from there. “You’re better than that!” Awful dreck. 4.5/10.
GoodCat: I'm a little torn on this one. On one hand, it is a great speech. I saw this movie in theaters way before my son came along and it definitely hits harder now than it did back then. But I struggle with this being a motivational speech, and more of a "open your eyes" kinda deal. Milo's face was more "dad really just put me in my place" rather than "hell yeah, let's go!!". 5/10
Total: 23.5
B. darkwing
The Hustler
cmvideo75: Hahahaha... I was watching thinking, where is the motivational speech?? Then it got to the last 5 seconds hahaha... I gave this a couple of points just for the laugh. 3/10
Brick: Decent speech…but seems a stretch to call this a motivational speech. Who is he trying to motivate? Certainly not her. And he’s the only other person in the scene, and he’s not trying to motivate himself either. He’s being descriptive of his confidence and motivation. It doesn’t seem like he’s talking himself up for something, rather bragging about being the man and how good it feels to win. A complete miss. 3/10.
GoodCat: I don't really know WTF this is, but it came off more like a guy trying to clap some cheeks and not being motivational. Unless he's trying to motivate her to let him smash. 1/10
C. Eranys
Independence Day
cmvideo75: It is a classic speech and scene but pretty corny. I was never a big fan of this one, especially with how it is delivered by Bill Pullman. Doesn't do it for me. But it fits here and is classic so I'm not nuking it. 6/10
Brick: Ugh, this again. I think someone submitted this in a previous idol category and this cheese-fest did not go well there either. I mean, it fits the category much better than whatever TF that Hustler entry was supposed to be, and as schlocky as it was maybe rose a touch above that Rocky clip. So, marginally better score than those two, but not great. Short and sweet, at least. 5.5/10.
GoodCat: Yeah, this is the good stuff right here! If you listen really closely, the president's voice kinda sounds a little like Trump. Coincidence? Probably. But still. And he had to pull out the best motivational speech in history to make up for the fact that he had Cousin Eddie of all people to count on to stop an alien invasion. And it was so good that it actually worked! 9/10
Total:30.5
D. Holeydel
Darkest Hour (2017)
cmvideo75: Oh man... bringing the history into this round with a little Winston Churchill lol. Great speech based on a real event and well delivered in a good movie. Good entry. 8/10
Brick: Now we’re talking. Fits the category, and is finally actually a good speech; you know you’re on to something when people are still talking about it 85 years later. Proper motivation when the stakes absolutely could not be higher. This is not some father scolding his whiney, bitch-ass kid or pool shark rambling to his girlfriend about how awesome he is; this is guy motivating an entire nation (and beyond) into a fight for utter survival when things looked quite bleak. 10/10.
GoodCat: What I really like about this one is that it is a much more realistic type of motivational speech. A lot of movies and shows will do the whole dramatic pause before the completely silent crowd erupts in applause, and if done right, that can still be really awesome. But this is a lot more how normal people would react. Getting excited with each point made, etc. Great pick 10/10
Total: 37
E. Tito Orcheese
Any Given Sunday
cmvideo75: Yeah, it's the low hanging fruit but in terms of movie motivational speeches, this is it. Sports speeches always work great and it's Al Pacino in full Al Pacino form. There's a few F bombs in there for emphasis during the speech. If I had to give a speech, there would be a lot of motivational F bombs. This is my winner. It's used in sports arena everywhere as a pump up clip. 10/10
Brick: Started out pretty emo, but that’s apparently part of building the crescendo. He pulls it off in the second half. A bit over the top, but that’s how things go with sports teams, especially football (plus, well, Pacino lol). If I remember the movie I think it makes even more sense in context, I think the team was fractured which adds some weight to many of his words. 7.5/10.
GoodCat: This was almost exactly what I was talking about in the previous review about the dramatized movie speech and this was a perfect example of it. Not a bad pick by any means, I actually really liked the build up in this. He started out just talking a little casually, but then once he started talking about the inches, you hear a few "yeah" sprinkled in, and by the end everyone is ready to run thru the wall. 8/10
Total:33.5
Match 1
motives=32.5+23.5=56
Eranys= 34.5+30.5=65
Match 2
Tito Orcheese=27+33.5=60.5
Holeydel=16.5+37=53.5
Next round will begin on Monday 8/24. We will be doing categories from Tito and Holeydel.
FunnyHoneyBunny
Site donor" badge, sorry!
Wait?
"Best motivational speech in a movie" and nobody picked this master piece?!
"Best motivational speech in a movie" and nobody picked this master piece?!
a-mart
Well Liked Pager Technician
Castaways showing what's up
Tito Orcheese
MTM Junkie Idol Jesus
Thanks for the 7. Lose my #....
I told you that you'd score highly. You can't help it.
This was an intentional choice. The idea was that war has no central star, and the star of the movie was every soldier, sailor, and marine who took part. Just like reality.
Also intentional as the perspective from individual soldiers is extremely limited to their one small part of the war. The entire picture of the war is only evident in the years following when the stories can all be woven together.
I'm not criticizing the judging; just pointing out what I believe to be features rather than bugs in the production of the movie. I felt those choices were excellent.
