"UFC is NOT a Sport!"

[Nastycrow]

Originally posted by: ~BUDO~
Date: April 24, 2014 at 08:48 PM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/ufc-is-not-a-sport.62010/

abc0331 said:
The UFC has legitimacy because they have been able to continue to run their brand in the wake of dozens of failed mma organizations that either did not know how to play the game of sports promotions or let fighter demands ruin there pocket books.
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Wait, so you're telling me that Lorenzo, Frank and Dana carry pocketbooks?!?
I think they are called murses, as in man purses........

 

[Nastycrow]

Originally posted by: Thak27
Date: April 25, 2014 at 09:06 AM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/ufc-is-not-a-sport.62010/

Reckin007 said:
So when the NFL plans games like Broncos vs. Patriots on a Monday nighter you don't think they consider the entertainment factor?
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Spotlighting an exciting matchup in prime time is also done in the UFC. That's fine. But you'll never see a team cut a player because he's "boring". It's all about winning in the NFL.
Now what the NFL will do from time to time is change the rules to make it more entertaining (like help the offenses score more points). I have no problem if the UFC did the same. But cutting a fighter because he's "boring" is just wrong and undermines the UFC's credibility as a sport.

 

[Nastycrow]

Originally posted by: Reckin007
Date: April 25, 2014 at 09:11 AM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/ufc-is-not-a-sport.62010/

Thak27 said:
Spotlighting an exciting matchup in prime time is also done in the UFC. That's fine. But you'll never see a team cut a player because he's "boring". It's all about winning in the NFL.
Now what the NFL will do from time to time is change the rules to make it more entertaining (like help the offenses score more points). I have no problem if the UFC did the same. But cutting a fighter because he's "boring" is just wrong and undermines the UFC's credibility as a sport.
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The credibility of having the best
fighters
in the world holds just fine. Not the best guys who can get you down and control you. Also, Jake Shields lost, Okami lost, Fitch lost. It's not like these guys were tearing it up. They were winning close decisions by getting a guy down and holding him there. That doesn't prove you're a top fighter.

 

[Nastycrow]

Originally posted by: Thak27
Date: April 25, 2014 at 09:35 AM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/ufc-is-not-a-sport.62010/

Reckin007 said:
The credibility of having the best
fighters
in the world holds just fine. Not the best guys who can get you down and control you. Also, Jake Shields lost, Okami lost, Fitch lost. It's not like these guys were tearing it up. They were winning close decisions by getting a guy down and holding him there. That doesn't prove you're a top fighter.
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Part of fighting is being able "get you down and control you". It might not be an exciting part of fighting, but it's an integral part that allows fighters you use all of their assets and athletic ability.
And Shields, Okami & Fitch were all doing well. Okami was 3-1 when he got cut from the UFC (including wins over Lombard and Belcher). Shields was 3-1-1 before getting cut (including wins over Woodley & Maia). And Fitch was 6-2-1 in his last 8 fights (and 1 of his losses was to Hendricks).
So you're telling me these guys deserve to get cut, while guys like Garcia and Hardy can go on 4 fight losing streaks and still keep their jobs in the UFC?

 

[Nastycrow]

Originally posted by: Moranis
Date: April 25, 2014 at 10:05 AM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/ufc-is-not-a-sport.62010/

Thak27 said:
Part of fighting is being able "get you down and control you". It might not be an exciting part of fighting, but it's an integral part that allows fighters you use all of their assets and athletic ability.
And Shields, Okami & Fitch were all doing well. Okami was 3-1 when he got cut from the UFC (including wins over Lombard and Belcher). Shields was 3-1-1 before getting cut (including wins over Woodley & Maia). And Fitch was 6-2-1 in his last 8 fights (and 1 of his losses was to Hendricks).
So you're telling me these guys deserve to get cut, while guys like Garcia and Hardy can go on 4 fight losing streaks and still keep their jobs in the UFC?
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Chris Johnson got cut from the Tennessee Titans. He was coming off a 1000 yard season, you know the 6th straight 1000 yard season he has had. Elvis Dumervil was released by the Denver Broncos coming off a 11 sack pro-bowl season because he cost to much. Athletes get released (or not signed) for salary purposes all the time in all of the sports. The UFC is no different. Garcia and Hardy are much cheaper than Shields, Okami, and Fitch were. Garcia for example was making 20/20 his last fight in the UFC. Hardy is on a 25/25 deal right now. The last reported pay for Okami he was on a 42/42 at UFC 155 when he fought Belcher (he had two fights after that). The only fight Shields had in the UFC where his pay was reported was his first fight against Kampmann and that was a 75/75 contract (Dana said he was set to make 120k in his next fight when he was released). Against Maia, Fitch's base pay was 66 (I believe he was a 66/66 based on his prior fights). Fitch, Okami, and Shields weren't cut because they were boring, they were cut because they made too much money for what they brought to the table, which takes into account everything i.e. draw, record, excitement, skill, age, place in the division, etc. Guys in their position, i.e. not young and not getting a title shot, need to either be cheap enough to stick around or bring in the ticket sales, PPV purchases, and viewers. Those three guys did not. If they took pay cuts, the UFC would have kept them around. You know that is what happens in business. If you out live your worth, you don't have a job. Period.

 

[Nastycrow]

Originally posted by: Thak27
Date: April 25, 2014 at 10:27 AM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/ufc-is-not-a-sport.62010/

Moranis said:
Chris Johnson got cut from the Tennessee Titans. He was coming off a 1000 yard season, you know the 6th straight 1000 yard season he has had. Elvis Dumervil was released by the Denver Broncos coming off a 11 sack pro-bowl season because he cost to much. Athletes get released (or not signed) for salary purposes all the time in all of the sports. The UFC is no different. Garcia and Hardy are much cheaper than Shields, Okami, and Fitch were. Garcia for example was making 20/20 his last fight in the UFC. Hardy is on a 25/25 deal right now. The last reported pay for Okami he was on a 42/42 at UFC 155 when he fought Belcher (he had two fights after that). The only fight Shields had in the UFC where his pay was reported was his first fight against Kampmann and that was a 75/75 contract (Dana said he was set to make 120k in his next fight when he was released). Against Maia, Fitch's base pay was 66 (I believe he was a 66/66 based on his prior fights). Fitch, Okami, and Shields weren't cut because they were boring, they were cut because they made too much money for what they brought to the table, which takes into account everything i.e. draw, record, excitement, skill, age, place in the division, etc. Guys in their position, i.e. not young and not getting a title shot, need to either be cheap enough to stick around or bring in the ticket sales, PPV purchases, and viewers. Those three guys did not. If they took pay cuts, the UFC would have kept them around. You know that is what happens in business. If you out live your worth, you don't have a job. Period.
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Couple of points. Chris Johnson averaged under 4 yards a carry last year and is on the down hill slope of his career. He aint close to the same player he was. Dumerville was coming off injury and if I'm not mistaken got paid very well by the Ravens. Both guys are still playing in the NFL (unlike Fitch, Shields & Okami) who are no longer a part of the UFC.
If what you said about these guys not taking reasonable pay cuts is true, then I have no problem with them being cut. But I'm not sure Dana White even wanted these guys in the UFC at all. If anything, Dana must have given them a "take it or leave it" offer (not caring one way or the other if they stay or go). These guys deserve better and I think more of an effort should have been made during negotiations to keep them in the UFC.

 

[Nastycrow]

Originally posted by: Moranis
Date: April 25, 2014 at 10:38 AM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/ufc-is-not-a-sport.62010/

Thak27 said:
Couple of points. Chris Johnson averaged under 4 yards a carry last year and is on the down hill slope of his career. He aint close to the same player he was. Dumerville was coming off injury and if I'm not mistaken got paid very well by the Ravens. Both guys are still playing in the NFL (unlike Fitch, Shields & Okami) who are no longer a part of the UFC.
If what you said about these guys not taking reasonable pay cuts is true, then I have no problem with them being cut. But I'm not sure Dana White even wanted these guys in the UFC at all. If anything, Dana must have given them a "take it or leave it" offer (not caring one way or the other if they stay or go). These guys deserve better and I think more of an effort should have been made during negotiations to keep them in the UFC.
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And Fitch, Okami, and Shields are all still fighting in MMA. They are just with different "teams". You seem to think the UFC should be different than the way teams in the other sports operate and that is just silly. The bottom line is basically all that matter to leagues, teams, and organizations. Sure the team sports also have the goal of winning titles, which the individual sports do not, but the PGA, ATP, etc. really only care about money. Even the individual tournaments in those leagues often hold open spots for people that would draw interest (like Michelle Wi playing in a men's tournament) so they draw ratings on tv, get sports talk radio talking about them, etc. 40 years later people are still talking about the exhibit tennis match between Billy Jean King and Bobby Riggs.

 

[Nastycrow]

Originally posted by: ~BUDO~
Date: April 25, 2014 at 10:42 AM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/ufc-is-not-a-sport.62010/

Moranis said:
but the PGA, ATP, etc. really only care about money. Even the individual tournaments in those leagues often hold open spots for people that would draw interest (like Michelle Wi playing in a men's tournament)
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That happened ONCE and once only and how many years ago was that. She can't even win on the woman's tour now.

 

[Nastycrow]

Originally posted by: Moranis
Date: April 25, 2014 at 11:37 AM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/ufc-is-not-a-sport.62010/

BUDO-MMA-NYC said:
That happened ONCE and once only and how many years ago was that. She can't even win on the woman's tour now.
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Wie has played in multiple men's tournaments (12 to be exact) and she hasn't been the only woman to do so. And she just won a LPGA tournament last weekend (and finished 2nd in the first major of the year), though I'm not sure what that had to do with my point.

 

[Nastycrow]

Originally posted by: ~BUDO~
Date: April 25, 2014 at 11:46 AM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/ufc-is-not-a-sport.62010/

Moranis said:
Wie has played in multiple men's tournaments (12 to be exact) and she hasn't been the only woman to do so. And she just won a LPGA tournament last weekend (and finished 2nd in the first major of the year), though I'm not sure what that had to do with my point.
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No way she played in 12 men's PGA tournaments, prove it if she did.

 

[Nastycrow]

Originally posted by: Reckin007
Date: April 25, 2014 at 12:03 PM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/ufc-is-not-a-sport.62010/

Thak27 said:
Couple of points. Chris Johnson averaged under 4 yards a carry last year and is on the down hill slope of his career. He aint close to the same player he was. Dumerville was coming off injury and if I'm not mistaken got paid very well by the Ravens. Both guys are still playing in the NFL (unlike Fitch, Shields & Okami) who are no longer a part of the UFC.
If what you said about these guys not taking reasonable pay cuts is true, then I have no problem with them being cut. But I'm not sure Dana White even wanted these guys in the UFC at all. If anything, Dana must have given them a "take it or leave it" offer (not caring one way or the other if they stay or go). These guys deserve better and I think more of an effort should have been made during negotiations to keep them in the UFC.
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These guys deserve nothing. They haven't improved over the past decade and suck the life out of any card they are on. Out with the old, in with the new.

 

[Nastycrow]

Originally posted by: brian04280
Date: April 25, 2014 at 12:13 PM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/ufc-is-not-a-sport.62010/

BUDO-MMA-NYC said:
I'm listening to Junkie radio right now and Jeremy Botter is co-hosting. For those that don't know, Jeremy is a respected MMA journalist who is widely considered a deep insider in the MMA industry.
When discussing the topic of Gina Carano coming back and getting an immediate title shot, he said a few interesting things.
-The "hardcores" are responsible for 160-210,000 PPV buys for every UFC PPV.
-There's a 70% chance Ronda vs Gina will happen in December.
-If it does happen he thinks it will do 1M buys.
-That fight is ridiculous to people who know the UFC, but works for those who don't follow as seriously.
That was all interesting but the biggest thing he said was, and this is as close to verbatim as I can recall, "Let's be honest, the UFC is NOT a sport, it's an entertainment organization. Every decision Zuffa makes is based on entertainment and finances first, they just revolve around the concept of being a sport."
That's a very heavy statement, how do you feel about it?
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I think it is a textbook logical fallacy, namely the False Dilemma or False Dichotomy fallacy.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_dilemma
As such, I reject it out of hand.
Is the UFC an entertainment organization? Yep. Is every professional sports league on the planet an entertainment organization? Yes. Well maybe it's better said that they are an entertainment business or a failing business.
Being an entertainment organization does not in any way shape or form proclude the UFC from promoting a sport. (I guess Botter's technical correct that the UFC is not a sport, but rather a business that promotes a sport, but I am willing to be charitable and assume it was sloppy language on Botter's part.)
So, apart from being an entertainment organization, does the UFC actively promote sport? Dictionary.com defines sport as:
an athletic activity requiring skill or physical prowess and often of a competitive
nature
, as racing,
baseball,
tennis, golf, bowling, wrestling, boxing, hunting, fishing, etc.
Certainly anyone who has ever watched a fight in the UFC would agree that it is an athletic activity, that it requires skill and physical prowess, and is competitive in nature.
So yes, the UFC actively promotes a sport.
Ergo, Botter is wrong in his logical fallacy.

 

[Nastycrow]

Originally posted by: ~BUDO~
Date: April 25, 2014 at 12:14 PM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/ufc-is-not-a-sport.62010/

Moranis said:
Wie has played in multiple men's tournaments (12 to be exact) and she hasn't been the only woman to do so. And she just won a LPGA tournament last weekend (and finished 2nd in the first major of the year), though I'm not sure what that had to do with my point.
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I stand corrected, she playednon the US on the PGA tour 8 times, never made the cut in any of them and not since 2008. I'm pretty sure she was an amateur in all of those. Novelty appearances.

 

[Nastycrow]

Originally posted by: brian04280
Date: April 25, 2014 at 12:15 PM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/ufc-is-not-a-sport.62010/

BUDO-MMA-NYC said:
That's the joke of the UFC creating their own rankings. They throw them in the garbage whenever they don't work for their business plan.
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Budo, I love how you ignore everything that disagrees with you to find one minor point to latch on to.

 

[Nastycrow]

Originally posted by: brian04280
Date: April 25, 2014 at 12:18 PM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/ufc-is-not-a-sport.62010/

Thak27 said:
Spotlighting an exciting matchup in prime time is also done in the UFC. That's fine. But you'll never see a team cut a player because he's "boring". It's all about winning in the NFL.
Now what the NFL will do from time to time is change the rules to make it more entertaining (like help the offenses score more points). I have no problem if the UFC did the same. But cutting a fighter because he's "boring" is just wrong and undermines the UFC's credibility as a sport.
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You will see teams moved when they are too boring to draw a crowd in their home city though.

 

[Nastycrow]

Originally posted by: MoJoJo
Date: April 25, 2014 at 02:46 PM
Source: https://forum.mmajunkie.com/threads/ufc-is-not-a-sport.62010/

It's not a sport……..It's a form of martial arts.