WAR

[a-mart]

I said nothing suggesting there be "wall to wall coverage" so that's a quite a straw man. But in the articles pitting Macklemore as a hero of Gaza vs. Sheeran the corporate shill, it seems that picture it would be a valid data point to put some context around why this guy was removed from the tour. It wasn't one speech from one night and suddenly boom, he's done.

The Kimmel thing wasn't just "over 10 years ago," it was about 30 years ago, so that got him a bit more grace. 1990s vs. 2014 were radically different times in this regard. Also, had he engaged in more recent racist behavior, the constant blackface thing certainly would have contributed to a cancellation. To my knowledge, Kimmel hasn't done that so it's not relevant to anything going on now, while Macklemore has continued his antisemitic borderline retarded rhetoric about phantom genocide and non-existent apartheid pretty consistently.

I don't wanna cancel anyone but if the warmup singer can't STFU about politics that nobody asked for then he deserves whatever happens for just being unprofessional and causing trouble for everyone else

 

[osubuckeye4]

I said nothing suggesting there be "wall to wall coverage" so that's a quite a straw man. But in the articles pitting Macklemore as a hero of Gaza vs. Sheeran the corporate shill, it seems that picture it would be a valid data point to put some context around why this guy was removed from the tour. It wasn't one speech from one night and suddenly boom, he's done.

In most articles that did a dive into it, they brought up the 2014 dress-up incident as evidence of Macklemore's 'history of antisemitism'

Which I did find kind of odd, given that it was a one-off incident that he immediately apologized for.. for whatever reason didn't seem to tank his career... and which he hasn't repeated in any way since.

It would be like Jimmy Kimmel being critical of something tangently related to the Black community and people doing the "lest we forget his rich history of Karl Malone blackface!"... that was forever ago and he hasn't done it since. It's only relevant in the context of, 'he made a mistake, apologized for it, and hasn't made that same mistake again'.

(please read the next part before we go on a back and forth about this)

The Kimmel thing wasn't just "over 10 years ago," it was about 30 years ago, so that got him a bit more grace. 1990s vs. 2014 were radically different times in this regard. Also, had he engaged in more recent racist behavior, the constant blackface thing certainly would have contributed to a cancellation. To my knowledge, Kimmel hasn't done that so it's not relevant to anything going on now, while Macklemore has continued his antisemitic borderline retarded rhetoric about phantom genocide and non-existent apartheid pretty consistently.

From the limited research I've done, I agree that Macklemore seems like a world class idiot.

I'm just saying that I would focus much more on his idiotic 'genocide' song that he released a year or two ago... and much less on something that happened 12 years ago which he profusely apologized for and hasn't repeated since.

 

[ABB]

In most articles that did a dive into it, they brought up the 2014 dress-up incident as evidence of Macklemore's 'history of antisemitism'

Which I did find kind of odd, given that it was a one-off incident that he immediately apologized for.. for whatever reason didn't seem to tank his career... and which he hasn't repeated in any way since.

It would be like Jimmy Kimmel being critical of something tangently related to the Black community and people doing the "lest we forget his rich history of Karl Malone blackface!"... that was forever ago and he hasn't done it since. It's only relevant in the context of, 'he made a mistake, apologized for it, and hasn't made that same mistake again'.

(please read the next part before we go on a back and forth about this)



From the limited research I've done, I agree that Macklemore seems like a world class idiot.

I'm just saying that I would focus much more on his idiotic 'genocide' song that he released a year or two ago... and much less on something that happened 12 years ago which he profusely apologized for and hasn't repeated since.

what's amazing is that I had no idea who this clown was before this dust storm. and have no desire to know anything about him now. so I just peruse right though articles and discussion on him. tuning in to learn more would be giving that guy and his career the oxygen it doesn't deserve.

next...

 

[bconcrete]

It would be like Jimmy Kimmel being critical of something tangently related to the Black community and people doing the "lest we forget his rich history of Karl Malone blackface!"... that was forever ago and he hasn't done it since. It's only relevant in the context of, 'he made a mistake, apologized for it, and hasn't made that same mistake again'. I'm just saying that I would focus much more on his idiotic 'genocide' song that he released a year or two ago... and much less on something that happened 12 years ago which he profusely apologized for and hasn't repeated since

Ok, let's play out your example:

If Jimmy Kimmel (great analogue for Macklemore btw, both absolutely irrelevant hacks in their current form) were to have his blackface incident and then, a decade later start stumping for and saying things like:

"why does 13% of the population commit 50% of the crime?"

"The lack of Black fathers and the embracing of gangsta culture is the root cause of rot in Black society."

"Black women are incentivized to kick fathers out of the home, live off government welfare, and are the big cause of the school to Street to prison pipeline"

(Please note, the veracity of these statements is not what we're discussing nor reflective of my beliefs, I'm just picking inflammatory statements that feel similarly polarizing)

Is your position that his black face incident would then be ignored and not brought up because it was a "mistake?" Or would people say that it was the first sign in a pattern of conduct and is completely relevant to the statements he is making in the current day?

Because one time, something might be excused as a mistake, sure. But you do a dress up bit, supposedly apologize and "learn," but then start making anti-Semitic statements publicly, Id argue it's completely relevant and paints that pattern of conduct.

(please read the next part before we go on a back and forth about this)

Fuck you, don't tell me how to live my life.

 

[osubuckeye4]

Ok, let's play out your example:

If Jimmy Kimmel (great analogue for Macklemore btw, both absolutely irrelevant hacks in their current form) were to have his blackface incident and then, a decade later start stumping for and saying things like:

"why does 13% of the population commit 50% of the crime?"

"The lack of Black fathers and the embracing of gangsta culture is the root cause of rot in Black society."

"Black women are incentivized to kick fathers out of the home, live off government welfare, and are the big cause of the school to Street to prison pipeline"

(Please note, the veracity of these statements is not what we're discussing nor reflective of my beliefs, I'm just picking inflammatory statements that feel similarly polarizing)

Is your position that his black face incident would then be ignored and not brought up because it was a "mistake?" Or would people say that it was the first sign in a pattern of conduct and is completely relevant to the statements he is making in the current day?

Because one time, something might be excused as a mistake, sure. But you do a dress up bit, supposedly apologize and "learn," but then start making anti-Semitic statements publicly, Id argue it's completely relevant and paints that pattern of conduct.

It would be like getting a speeding ticket for going 37 in a 25... having no more speeding tickets... and then 12 years later getting a DUI and everyone saying it was a matter of time due to the lengthy history of driving violations.

Except.... 2 years ago the same person got into a drunken brawl where no driving was involved.

My point is that the speeding ticket was something that could happen to anyone. The drunken brawl (literally writing songs about genocide) is where you want to plant your flag... piling on with the, "and to REALLY prove my point, what about the thing 12 years ago that he apologized for and never did again? Yea, we didn't forget about that!"

Now it just sounds like you're grasping for straws.


[women do this all the time in arguments.... their crazy friends rah-rah along with it, but it doesn't help win neutral people to their side]

Fuck you, don't tell me how to live my life.

Glad to have you back!

 

[osubuckeye4]

what's amazing is that I had no idea who this clown was before this dust storm. and have no desire to know anything about him now. so I just peruse right though articles and discussion on him. tuning in to learn more would be giving that guy and his career the oxygen it doesn't deserve.

next...

I remembered the name from way back when Bud Light or some other beer company ran commercials with him being "independent" and "refusing to sell out to labels"

I only remembered it because of how ironic and unintentionally funny it was.


"HE NEVER SELLS OUT.... except to us, buy our beer!"

 

[bconcrete]

It would be like getting a speeding ticket for going 37 in a 25... having no more speeding tickets... and then 12 years later getting a DUI and everyone saying it was a matter of time due to the lengthy history of driving violations.

Except.... 2 years ago the same person got into a drunken brawl.

My point is that the speeding ticket was something that could happen to anyone. The drunken brawl (literally writing songs about genocide) is where you want to plant your flag... piling on with the, "and to REALLY prove my point, what about the thing 12 years ago that he apologized for and never did again? Yea, we didn't forget about that!"

Now it just sounds like you're grasping for straws.

Actually it sounds like youre grasping... Youve just completely changed the paradigm. You went from something analogous, Kimmel, to a driving metaphor ...

Because:
1) conflating an intentional choice to dress up as a derogatory caricature of another culture to a speeding ticket is just... Wildly incorrect

2) framing it as "something that can happen to anyone" is also just... wildly incorrect.

For example, let's take a poll: who here has ever gotten a speeding ticket? Of you who have gotten a speeding ticket, who amongst you have also dressed as a derogatory caricature of another race or culture? Suspecting it's a pretty small percentage of overlap, (especially with Lone Klansman outta here) but hey, I could be surprised. Especially with this group.

3) it would be MORE analogous, if we were to insist upon changing the framing to what we've already established as a poor motor vehicle comparison, to say: someone got a DUI 10 years ago, now they have unapologetically been caught repeatedly going 50+ in a school zone, so we use their documented driving history to conclude that they're a reckless driver.

Glad to have you back!

I'll make you regret those words.

(Thanks! Life should be relatively smooth again after this weekend)

 

[osubuckeye4]

Actually it sounds like youre grasping... Youve just completely changed the paradigm. You went from something analogous, Kimmel, to a driving metaphor ...

Because:
1) conflating an intentional choice to dress up as a derogatory caricature of another culture to a speeding ticket is just... Wildly incorrect

2) framing it as "something that can happen to anyone" is also just... wildly incorrect.

For example, let's take a poll: who here has ever gotten a speeding ticket? Of you who have gotten a speeding ticket, who amongst you have also dressed as a derogatory caricature of another race or culture? Suspecting it's a pretty small percentage of overlap, (especially with Lone Klansman outta here) but hey, I could be surprised. Especially with this group.

3) it would be MORE analogous, if we were to insist upon changing the framing to what we've already established as a poor motor vehicle comparison, to say: someone got a DUI 10 years ago, now they have unapologetically been caught repeatedly going 50+ in a school zone, so we use their documented driving history to conclude that they're a reckless driver.

I'll make you regret those words.

(Thanks! Life should be relatively smooth again after this weekend)

Who here has ever wore a costume, had people question it, apologized for wearing it and never worn it again?

MANY people.

Had he come out and stood by the fact that it was intentionally mocking the Jewish community, then we'd have something.

This was a nothingburger that was quickly dismissed.


Again, the point is that the song he wrote 2 years ago about how what Israel is doing is genocide is the headline.

Stick with that and how ridiculous it is, no need to go back to a one-off misunderstanding 12 years ago that he never repeated.

 

[bconcrete]

Who here has ever wore a costume, had people question it, apologized for wearing it and never worn it again?

MANY people.

Had he come out and stood by the fact that it was intentionally mocking the Jewish community, then we'd have something.

This was a nothingburger that was quickly dismissed.

The point is that they all relate and show an established pattern of anti-Semitism lol. If it was an isolated incident fine, mistakes happen. But it very clearly isn't, there are multiple incidents. There isn't some decade pass, where he gets to wave off an anti-Semitic incident. Because he clearly DIDNT learn and harbored these feelings all during that time, he just wasn't public about it until now. It's a pattern. Of. Conduct.

 

[osubuckeye4]

The point is that they all relate and show an established pattern of anti-Semitism lol. If it was an isolated incident fine, mistakes happen. But it very clearly isn't, there are multiple incidents. There isn't some decade pass, where he gets to wave off an anti-Semitic incident. Because he clearly DIDNT learn and harbored these feelings all during that time, he just wasn't public about it until now. It's a pattern. Of. Conduct.

Agree to disagree on the "long established pattern" being an incident 12 years ago that he profusely apologized for, nothing for 11-12 years, then him going full retard 2 years ago till present.

We agree that the dude is a douche and has been acting like one for 2+ years now, that's enough common ground.

 

[ABB]

Aight, well answer me this:

Why do the Dagestanis get a pass on wearing an afro wig? More and more of them do it, and they're all celebrated.

 

[ABB]

Agree to disagree on the "long established pattern" being an incident 12 years ago that he profusely apologized for, nothing for 11-12 years, then him going full retard 2 years ago till present.

We agree that the dude is a douche and has been acting like one for 2+ years now, that's enough common ground.

ya and enough to stop talking about this no-hit wonder has-been

 

[Eranys]

ya and enough to stop talking about this no-hit wonder has-been

I am unfortunately very familiar with him as he rose to fame in Seattle when I lived there. He's a piece of shit.

 

[ABB]

I am unfortunately very familiar with him as he rose to fame in Seattle when I lived there. He's a piece of shit.

feel free to not mention her

 

[bconcrete]

Agree to disagree on the "long established pattern" being an incident 12 years ago that he profusely apologized for, nothing for 11-12 years, then him going full retard 2 years ago till present.

Nothing he got CAUGHT FOR or did PUBLICLY in that time.

Using your DUI analogy, how many people with two DUIs have only driven drunk twice?

You don't "learn your lesson," not hate Jews for 12 years, and then wake up one day and pull a complete 180 and go full anti-Semite.

 

[a-mart]

Maybe it's just me but I feel like blackface is more of ignorance and trying to look funny or whatever while wearing what the other guy did is much more intentional

 

[ABB]

how many people with two DUIs have only driven drunk twice?

Nubs?

@nubbynub76 can you field this one

 

[Eranys]

Maybe it's just me but I feel like blackface is more of ignorance and trying to look funny or whatever while wearing what the other guy did is much more intentional

Agreed. Anyone who thinks Macklemore was just being silly are either naive or willfully blind.

 

[Eranys]

British PM Suspects Iran Played a Part in Plot to Attack Air Base​

British PM Suspects Iran Played a Part in Plot to Attack Air Base | National Review

Andy Burnham’s comments appear to confirm those of President Trump and Secretary of State Rubio, but so far there are no charges.

www.nationalreview.com

The British government now says there are “strong indications” that Iran was behind what may have been an attempt over the weekend to bomb the Royal Air Force base in Fairford, where the United States armed forces station heavy bombers that have been deployed in the ongoing war.


The British suspicions were voiced by Prime Minister Andy Burnham in comments to the BBC. He offered no evidence but made a point of “confirm[ing] our belief that we believe Iran to have played a part,” the Wall Street Journal reported.


The PM’s remarks back up the assertions of Secretary of State Marco Rubio that the United States believes a foreign actor was behind the incident, as well as President Trump’s implication that the foreign actor was Iran.


Before we get too far ahead of ourselves, we should pause to note that it has not been established that the incident, which occurred in the wee hours of Sunday morning, actually was a failed terrorist attack. At least not yet.


Still, it has been reported that the British police stumbled onto the plot because one of the five men telephoned emergency services to warn them — prior to being arrested Sunday morning. Assuming that’s true, it’s not clear whether the man got cold feet or was intentionally trying to minimize casualties in a plan that aimed to destroy aircraft.


In any event, as I related yesterday, British authorities released all five suspects on bail (with stringent conditions). They could have sought pre-charge detention for 14 days but chose not to. No one has been formally charged with a bombing conspiracy — indeed, no charges at all have been filed. And investigators reportedly did not find explosives or weapons in the three white vans that were operated by the suspects, all British nationals in their twenties.


Iran, which has no formal diplomatic relations with the United States, does maintain an embassy in London. It put out a statement that it “categorically rejects” being linked to a potential terrorist plot. It’s worth pointing out a leitmotif of the war, which has played out since President Trump initiated it in late February: While the diplomatic factions of the regime in Tehran have tried to project pragmatism and willingness to negotiate, the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps — the jihadist revolutionary force that is actually running the country — admonished this summer that Iran would retaliate over Britain’s permitting its bases to be used by the United States.


The IRGC, of course, has a long history of attacking the West through terrorist proxies and cells embedded in Western countries.


I’ll repeat what I said yesterday, but now with more evidence: If the British authorities were tipped off at the last minute by one of the suspects, that confirms that this investigation is the result of police suddenly discovering suspect behavior over the weekend. That is, there are no signs, despite Trump’s comments to the contrary, that the suspects were under investigation for a long time or that the Brits had collected much intelligence about them prior to the weekend. Had it been otherwise, and if there were at this stage strong evidence of a terrorist plot coordinated by Iran, it is inconceivable that no one would have been charged and detained.


That doesn’t meant Iran was not orchestrating a bombing of the British base over the weekend; rather, it means the probe is in its very early stages and that it is being undertaken under ordinary law enforcement protocols, not wartime measures.

 

[ABB]

Maybe it's just me but I feel like blackface is more of ignorance and trying to look funny or whatever while wearing what the other guy did is much more intentional

I've never found "blackface" offensive and don't get why others do. it's a costume, an outfit. that doesn't mean it comes with intent to disrespect a culture, that's a bridge too far for me. more and more, year by year we lose the ability to laugh with each other. Soul Man was funny AF in 1986, everyone thought it was funny, TF happened by golly